Todd Rogers, owner of longest-standing gaming record, finally outted as cheater and banned for life

[fruxodaily]

I highly recommend you watch some of Apollo Legend's videos on speedrunning cheats and near misses, its absolutely mind boggling the extent that some people go to just to have their names in some history book

[Sgt. Napalm]

So was this because of Apollo Legend, was this boiling under the surface the whole time, did he just give it a nudge to start the avalanche, or is it all three? I've been hearing rumors that this guy was a hack for a long time but it seemed to finally explode when Apollo put the video out.

[postal]

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;53093263]So was this because of Apollo Legend, was this boiling under the surface the whole time, did he just give it a nudge to start the avalanche, or is it all three? I've been hearing rumors that this guy was a hack for a long time but it seemed to finally explode when Apollo put the video out.[/QUOTE]

Well there is a timeline in the OP. Omnigamer is the one that (afaik) built the first iron-clad case against one of his scores after years of speculation by creating a TAS, followed by D.B.Cooper using it to file an official dispute on their forum and begin the shitshow, but Apollo is the one that lit a fire under TG by making that video and thus pushing the entire shit show into the public eye. It was 24 hours after Apollos vid blew up that TG finally committed to a deadline on making a decision after having previously spent 5 months dancing around the issue in Cooper's dispute thread on their message board, so yea I'd say there's a damn decent amount of credit owed to Apollo (which hilariously enough is the only person in this situation that gets zero mention in TG's official statements on this matter) but certainly not all the credit.

[GhostSonic]

"The human element" is the funniest fucking defense. It's so amazingly vague, but it sounds like some really corny sci-fi explanation.

[postal]

i'm glad the dispute thread is still accessible on TG. Now that this shit is over, clicking a random page and seeing what mental gymnastics that page revolves around is just funny instead of frustrating. this Hector guy in particular is just an endless source of entertainment

[t]https://i.imgur.com/WGAyO8f.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/kwr1rvq.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/1JYFcZm.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/rR4rXNj.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/ZtqGmsZ.png[/t]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/W9FpBIQ.png[/img]

oops!

also I love how like a week after he says all that shit about barely any records exist for it and thus there must not be enough people really trying, this page just explodes with submissions [url]https://www.speedrun.com/Dragster[/url]

[BryBreadmin]

[QUOTE=GhostSonic;53093384]"The human element" is the funniest fucking defense. It's so amazingly vague, but it sounds like some really corny sci-fi explanation.[/QUOTE]

[video=youtube;ER4YsXjFFAY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER4YsXjFFAY&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Todd vs TASbot

[editline]29th January 2018[/editline]

[QUOTE=postal;53093402]i'm glad the dispute thread is still accessible on TG. Now that this shit is over, clicking a random page and seeing what mental gymnastics that page revolves around is just funny instead of frustrating. this Hector guy in particular is just an endless source of entertainment

oops!

also I love how like a week after he says all that shit about barely any records exist for it and thus there must not be enough people really trying, this page just explodes with submissions [url]https://www.speedrun.com/Dragster[/url][/QUOTE]

Emulators very often prefer emulation speed over accuracy [URL="https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/"]which can cause phenomenon not present on actual hardware[/URL], so that's a fair enough point, but like I posted earlier Todd couldn't even do it with Ben Heck's real hardware TAS bot :v:

[Sableye]

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;53091981]Ben Heck even built what was essentially a TAS Machine that works with real hardware and sat down with Todd and having Todd provide guidance for the inputs to try to prove it and they still never got lower than 5.57 :v:

[video=youtube;qfXwSYzEjcE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=qfXwSYzEjcE[/video][/QUOTE]

God this is so reflective of society in general. Prove something definitively using mathematics and physics and someone will always come along and think they just [I]know[/I] how to do it a little better.

[BryBreadmin]

[QUOTE=Sableye;53093424]God this is so reflective of society in general. Prove something definitively using mathematics and physics and someone will always come along and think they just [I]know[/I] how to do it a little better.[/QUOTE]

I mean hey, that's come pretty in handy for advances in science and mathematics. A good example I can think of is how parity was assumed to work, which is a fundamental part of our understanding of physics, was proven wrong twice before they (as far as we currently know) got it right. :v:

[video=youtube;yArprk0q9eE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=yArprk0q9eE[/video]

But when it comes to video games there's not nearly as much opportunity for ""the human element"" to come into play since there's a very finite amount of combinations of input that can be given on any given frame. The game is super short, too. Somebody could probably find every possible outcome of playing the game fairly quickly in an emulator.

[chunkymonkey]

[QUOTE=postal;53093402]i'm glad the dispute thread is still accessible on TG. Now that this shit is over, clicking a random page and seeing what mental gymnastics that page revolves around is just funny instead of frustrating. this Hector guy in particular is just an endless source of entertainment

*pix*

oops!

also I love how like a week after he says all that shit about barely any records exist for it and thus there must not be enough people really trying, this page just explodes with submissions [url]https://www.speedrun.com/Dragster[/url][/QUOTE]

iirc didn't that guy make a post saying he was friends with Todd and they played games together?

[postal]

Todd Rogers has finally responded (spoiler alert, he still denies everything)

[url]https://www.facebook.com/todd.rogers.7967747/posts/10155239196030936[/url]

[quote]

In light of recent events regarding my standing with Twin Galaxies, I have been asked by many to address the situation. As the saga has seemingly reached its conclusion, I thought now would be a good time to shed some light on a few topics and give my thoughts on the matter.

As many of you know, Twin Galaxies has made the decision to ban me from their database. Although I disagree with their decision, I must applaud them for their strong stance on the matter of cheating. For too long, gamers have tried to cheat the system and achieve recognition for scores they did not actually make. This is something I came across numerous times while serving as a Twin Galaxies referee. I have always maintained that stronger testing and punishment was needed for those trying to manipulate the system, perhaps even requiring live performances on more questionable scores. Simply put, even videotapes and DVDs are not enough in this technological age where it is becoming increasingly easy to cheat. While I do maintain that Twin Galaxies is wrong in my particular case, if the investigation into my score(s), and subsequent banning, can serve as a catalyst to clean the database of questionable scores and facilitate methods to catch future cheaters, this is a positive thing. In my opinion, it will not stop cheaters from cheating. There is an inherent problem with the system all together; so long as human beings are involved with the input of the data, true scores will come across as false and and false scores will come across as true.

On the topic of Dragster, there is much that needs to be said. While I will try to address as much of it as I can in my statement today, I doubt I will be able to cover it all, or say enough to appease inquiring minds. I will do my best to cover some of the most talked about topics. Perhaps the most heated debates stem from how my score was verified. As was the accepted means of verification back then, my first score was submitted via photograph, while the next two times were achieved in front of Activision staff, and at a live event respectively. While many question the validity of my claims of achieving 5:51 on Dragster in front of Activision's staff, and point to the fact that David Crane said "his position was very simple the high scores published by Activision in the 1980s were authenticated using the established methods at the time, by the governing authority at the time. I have no doubts, then or now, that Todd Rogers achieved the scores attributed to him", I ask this: Had I not achieved the score in their presence, why would Activision have acknowledged me beating their "perfect" run, and hired me to demonstrate their games? What also seems to get overlooked is that I was only sixteen, and really had nothing to gain by fabricating an unobtainable score. There was no Twin Galaxies database back then when I first started submitting photos to Activision, and the only real merit one could achieve was getting a patch and your name in Activision's news letter. I had already done this with slower times. While this score ultimately led to me working with Activision and other gaming companies, there was no way of knowing that would happen, as many like to theorize. It is also assumed by many that all three times I achieved my score it was on my own hardware, and that it was somehow modded. This is completely untrue. The idea that I would be able to bring my own console and game to Activision, and demand to only play on my system, is preposterous. Any consoles, games, joysticks, etc. that I played on, were always provided by the company or event where I was playing. In fact, one thing that is constantly overlooked is that many of my more "controversial" scores were made at live events, using the developers hardware, and were recognized by the developers as a high score. There were no tapes, polaroids, or Twin Galaxies submissions back then; only live gameplay, which has always been my preferred method. This brings me to my next Dragster topic: "Fake" certificates. What many fail to realize is that I was not part of the birth of Twin Galaxies. It wasn't until the early 1999 that I even became aware of their existence other then being published in an old issue of Joystik magazine for Gorf. Back then, I was very enthusiastic about the gaming community, and thought it would be a nice touch to recognize players achievements by reviving a classic method popularized by Activision. While my design was based on Activison's original design, it was not an exact copy and was not on the same paper as the originals. I am unaware if any of my designs have survived over the years, but telling them apart from Activison's originals would not have been difficult. Somewhere along the lines however, my concept was misconstrued as me making exact, perfect replicas of the originals. This led to the theory that if I could make exact copies, that perhaps my own certificates were forged as well. I'm uncertain as to how this theory snowballed as it did, but it is completely false.

Many have asked my opinion on Eric Koziel and the results of his findings. I have refrained from speaking about him for the most part, which I will explain shortly, but I thought this would be a good time to clear up any assumptions that have been made. My opinion on Eric, himself, is a mixed one. On one hand, I respect what he represents - change in how we address controversial scores. The ability to fact check based on data is something I hope to see grow. Everyone should be able to compete on a level playing field, and the results should be based on skill alone. I do, however, question Eric Koziel's motives, and how he went about his efforts. Not once was there any attempt on his part to contact me or question me on my methods. Instead, he chose to use bits and pieces of interviews I have done on my shifting patterns, and use them as factual evidence of how I play, without ever actually seeing me play in person. I am not a hard person to reach - my phone number, email, and facebook are easy to obtain, and I don't recall anyone having trouble contacting me. In fact, Eric did find my facebook page and chose to engage my friends, on my wall, yet still failed to address me directly. To me, it's an act of cowardice when you choose to call someone out but refuse to speak to them man to man. If you feel I cheated, or think I'm a fraud, say it to my face. We may disagree, but at least I can respect someone who hears me out before passing judgement. In my opinion, he has only gone about this matter the way he has to draw interest in his book, which he has shamelessly promoted throughout his argument, and I will not engage him in his attempts to draw interest in it.

In closing, I would like to address why I have not previously discussed this topic directly. What many may or may not know, is there were plans for me to play live and attempt to replicate my Dragster record. At first I embraced the challenge, and looked forward to proving my score legitimate. I remained silent on the matter, as I believed that in this situation actions would speak louder than words. I began practicing during this time to get my timing right, and though a 5:51 was not achieved I was feeling good about my chances of tying my score. What made me sour on doing such an event, and ultimately cancel it, was the reaction from the gaming community. Insults began littering my personal facebook page. Degrading remarks filled my PM's and emails. Even my family was being harassed for being associated with me. I began to wonder who I really was trying to satisfy with my record attempt. If you wish to call me a cheat, a fraud, etc., you have every right to until you see evidence that says otherwise. Seeing is believing. But when the remarks become personal, and my friends and family are dragged into the mire, it is no longer about gaming. People are wishing ill will upon me and my family over what? A high score on a video game? If that is what the gaming community has become, then despite my love for video games and all of my contributions and experience to help the scene grow by playing live at events and supporting the community, it is not worth jeopardizing my personal life and family outside of gaming.

Though gamers such as Rudy Ferretti and Roy Schildt may have given some people the idea that high scores are all that matters, gaming is not life. Gaming is meant to be fun. The competitive aspect of it should be used to bring people together in pursuit of a common goal, not tear down friendships and communities. Who I am, and what I have done with my life will not be defined by a score that I produced live, that others do not believe because they were not there. For those who have shown me unwavering support over the last few months, thank you. I will continue play games I enjoy and have fun doing so. After all, isn't that what gaming is about?
[/quote]

rite so he doesn't address anything Omnigamer found and just questions his motives instead, says nothing about the ex-TG referee that said a metric fuckton about him and got the entire investigation ended early, claims he cancelled the Dragster Live event because of harassment and abuse (the people doing that do suck tho) even tho just doing the fuckin score live would've ended all of that, and ultimately has no proof to back up anything he says. oooook. Also gotta love all his talk about Omni not facing him 'man to man' when Todd never once responded to anything in the dispute thread for the 5 and a half months it was active (afaik).

[Alice]

[QUOTE=postal;53093402][t]https://i.imgur.com/rR4rXNj.png[/t][/QUOTE]
If he's the same Tompa from TASVideos.org, which seems likely considering the nature of the two sites, this one in particular is priceless because Tompa really knows what he's talking about.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;53093408]Emulators very often prefer emulation speed over accuracy [URL="https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/"]which can cause phenomenon not present on actual hardware[/URL], so that's a fair enough point, but like I posted earlier Todd couldn't even do it with Ben Heck's real hardware TAS bot :v:[/QUOTE]
This frequently isn't true for emulators of very old systems. The best example would be the SNES emulators being used for TASing. They're getting so absurdly advanced that they're even trying to take into account weird peculiarities that are hard to even pin down, let alone emulate. (Though admittedly the SNES one is a bit of an extreme example even as accurate emulators go.)

[postal]

was trying to find a post in the TG dispute thread and ended up stumbling upon the conversation that WCopeland, the Donkey Kong world record holder up until last month, was -presumably- referring to when he said he'd been "called a racist by a known con artist that assaulted his top competitor at Funspot"

[t]https://i.imgur.com/eQYv548.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/SppkjnL.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/USJ3px8.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/UgiMEFA.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/XrzAjkB.png[/t]

or if you want to save some brain cells (tho the start of that first post is pretty incredible)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/py64GSQ.png[/img]

holy hell what a lil e-thug lol, and ofc the TG staff just let it slide. No wonder he left the site, it really is a toxic shithole.

[Beardy]

triforce is a walking joke.

everybody in the fgc knows what a horrible person he is.

pretty sure he still owes money to former players that left emp, to the point that he "fled" to jamaica.

[gman003-main]

[QUOTE=Alice3173;53093637]This frequently isn't true for emulators of very old systems. The best example would be the SNES emulators being used for TASing. They're getting so absurdly advanced that they're even trying to take into account weird peculiarities that are hard to even pin down, let alone emulate. (Though admittedly the SNES one is a bit of an extreme example even as accurate emulators go.)[/QUOTE]

Not just old systems - Dolphin, the Gamecube/Wii emulator, has been making a lot of correctness-over-performance changes, to the point that they're now testing games that crash on actual hardware to make sure they crash in emulator as well.

[Anteep]

ugh what a disgusting human being

[postal]

Someone named ToddRogers64 [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/7tzaaa/todd_rogers_response/dthiptf/]just posted[/url] this on the speedrunning reddit thread about his response

[quote]For some reason I couldn't make my own link nor text.

This one's for my friends and haters. Sincerely, Todd Rogers, The King of Videogames.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/23XPl7b.jpg[/img][/quote]

is this an old image and someone fucking around or did Todd really just post this?? (ofc doesn't mean shit without any video, but still lol)

[Mattk50]

[QUOTE=postal;53095387]Someone named ToddRogers64 [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/7tzaaa/todd_rogers_response/dthiptf/]just posted[/url] this on the speedrunning reddit thread about his response

is this an old image and someone fucking around or did Todd really just post this?? (ofc doesn't mean shit without any video, but still lol)[/QUOTE]

He probably just hooked up a computer to the tv and displayed the edited image he already has.

[lordcrypto]

the comments on his facebook are fucking hilarious

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ptM4l3h.png[/img]

[postal]

[QUOTE=Mattk50;53095479]He probably just hooked up a computer to the tv and displayed the edited image he already has.[/QUOTE]

Well yea, i'm just amazed that (presumably) Todd is still trying to push this fake record using only photographs as proof. dense as a brick, but hey at least he took it a step further this time over just showing a badly photoshopped image again. Now it's through a shitty TV screen and at a distance so you can't easily tell it's fake lol (well, beyond the obvious impossible score)

[Gormaoife]

[QUOTE=postal;53095387]Someone named ToddRogers64 [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/7tzaaa/todd_rogers_response/dthiptf/]just posted[/url] this on the speedrunning reddit thread about his response

is this an old image and someone fucking around or did Todd really just post this?? (ofc doesn't mean shit without any video, but still lol)[/QUOTE]

lol.

[thumb]https://i.imgur.com/cSFH5z7.png[/thumb]

exploitable: [url]https://i.imgur.com/OxOuoj4.png[/url] (I cleaned it up.)

How this liar can still think he can get away with this after all this evidence is beyond me.

[postal]

[QUOTE=Gorm;53095536]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/cSFH5z7.png[/img]

exploitable: [url]https://imgur.com/2gQGxjA[/url][/QUOTE]

ahah knew this was coming. A++. someone should reply with that on Todd's post in the reddit thread and start something beautiful

[Corndog Ninja]

[QUOTE=postal;53095387]Someone named ToddRogers64 [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/7tzaaa/todd_rogers_response/dthiptf/]just posted[/url] this on the speedrunning reddit thread about his response[/QUOTE]

Man and I thought the ride was over with them removing all his scores, well before the March 1st deadline! Little did I know...

[Zillamaster55]

Iirc one of the refs who always backed up his claims is in jail for child rape

[postal]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53095571]Iirc one of the refs who always backed up his claims is in jail for child rape[/QUOTE]

if you haven't seen Apollo's video yet in the OP you def should, because yea that's one of the main points he focuses on. The validity of a lot of Todd's scores hinges entirely on the word of a legit pedo, with no other evidence available. TG is such a joke lol.

[Corndog Ninja]

[QUOTE=postal;53095387]is this an old image and someone fucking around or did Todd really just post this?? (ofc doesn't mean shit without any video, but still lol)[/QUOTE]

Doesn't seem to be a repost? but is pretty out-of-character for Todd, who posted a fucking novel on his Facebook and doesn't seem to be the kind for poorly thought out zingers.

[t]https://i.imgur.com/UMNQvhP.png[/t]

v:v:v

[Gormaoife]

One more.

[thumb]https://i.imgur.com/eZdg8jN.png[/thumb]

I always knew his Centipede score was real!!!!!!!

Who knew all it took was having reality-bending powers.

[postal]

[QUOTE=Corndog Ninja;53095598]Doesn't seem to be a repost? but is pretty out-of-character for Todd, who posted a fucking novel on his Facebook and doesn't seem to be the kind for poorly thought out zingers.

[t]https://i.imgur.com/UMNQvhP.png[/t]

v:v:v[/QUOTE]

lol yea I tried the same, with even weirder results

[t]https://i.imgur.com/jrlNG8q.png[/t]

good effort, google

as far as his post being short tho, the reddit thread in question is based on Todd's novel of a response, so probably isn't anything else he felt needed to be said beyond posting this weird shit. that and he was apparently having difficulty posting 'text and links' stuff somehow? that part at least sure sounds like him lol

[Janus Vesta]

[QUOTE=postal;53095514]Well yea, i'm just amazed that (presumably) Todd is still trying to push this fake record using only photographs as proof. dense as a brick, but hey at least he took it a step further this time over just showing a badly photoshopped image again. Now it's through a shitty TV screen and at a distance so you can't easily tell it's fake lol (well, beyond the obvious impossible score)[/QUOTE]

Todd's 'career' was started in the 80s by getting his friends to lie for him, and by lying himself. He just hasn't kept up with the times. Which means he's not only a cheat but he's a relic of the past. He's not just clinging on to records he scored decades ago for fame but also the methods he used to gain those records.

[postal]

So at this point I've skimmed through most of the pages on that dispute thread on TwinGalaxies (emphasis on 'skimmed' lol. So many pointless pages.). Todd claims Omnigamer 'shamelessly' promoted his book throughout this dispute... but if you actually read through the thread, you'll see that Omni never mentions it. in fact, the person that actually brings up the fact that Omni is writing a book, and then continues to hammer on about it over the next 100 pages in some weird attempt to accuse Omni of having an agenda, was none other than one of the head staff of Twin Galaxies. Omni himself makes a point of either ignoring the guys attempts to bring it up or just saying it's not relevant at all. So really outside of a quick mention on [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vuVYo4TXns&feature=youtu.be&t=5m50s]a video that predates the TG thread drama anyways[/url], the only people that actually promoted Omni's book during the Dragster dispute were TG and Todd themselves lol. gj

if you want to melt some brain cells, here's a bunch from the thread [url]https://i.imgur.com/hSycHhu.jpg[/url] (for some of the walls of text can just read the red circled parts)

also shout-outs to when Twin Galaxies asked Todd to provide them with the certificate he received from Activision regarding his Dragster score as proof and it totally back-fired when all of 2 hours later people tore into and found that it was not only a blatant fake, but that Todd himself bragged on two occasions in the past about generating his own Activision certificates for people
[t]https://i.imgur.com/dzbPYLg.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/WC9rwZf.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/h5BtBZ2.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/m6LsGac.png[/t] yeeeee adding this to the OP lol

there's barely anything worth reading in that dumpster fire of a thread and i can't bring myself to ever look at it again anyways. what a legendary shitshow this has been.

[Zephyrs]

[QUOTE=postal;53096386]if you want to melt some brain cells, here's a bunch from the thread [url]https://i.imgur.com/hSycHhu.jpg[/url] (for some of the walls of text can just read the red circled parts)[/QUOTE]

I pulled a [url=http://reactimg.com/images/83.jpg]perfect cell[/url] and drooled reading this shit.

Not even joking when I say that. It's just so mind numbingly flagrant attempts to DARVO.