[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52621585] But the concentration camp comparison? That's when you jump in. The only time. The only fucking time you will ever get to take the "it's not [B]that[/B] bad!" position. That's when you engage.[/QUOTE]
If we're going there, this kind of whataboutism is exactly why OP keeps posting these "free speech / Trump supporter under attack!" threads. And unlike Trilby, OP is protected from all criticism since calling him out is usually a ban.
When you run out of ways to defend your terrible ideology all you can do is try to push a persecution narrative, taking the moral high road off of a false equivalence.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52621615]How do you wanna bet that the Alt-right is paying these groups.[/QUOTE]
I'd bet every buck I ever got from Clinton.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52621615]How do you wanna bet that the Alt-right is paying these groups.[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously trying to suggest violent far-left groups are a right wing false flag? The stupidity is staggering.
[QUOTE=download;52621642]Are you seriously trying to suggest violent far-left groups are a right wing false flag? The stupidity is staggering.[/QUOTE]
Well the right wing thinks all left wing protesters are paid by Clinton and Soros, so it's only logical someone would make the same conclusion towards them. I'm not saying it's the truth, but it's certainly not something to overlook, Republicans are greedy cocksuckers that will do anything to get their way.
[QUOTE=Megadave;52621650]Well the right wing thinks all left wing protesters are paid by Clinton and Soros, so it's only logical someone would make the same conclusion towards them. I'm not saying it's the truth, but (...)[/QUOTE]
If you start saying that you give the opposing idea that the left only protests because they're getting paid silent legitimacy. Don't.
You don't fight fire with fire by burning your own house down.
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;52621658]
You don't fight fire with fire by burning your own house down.[/QUOTE]
If only antifa understood this we wouldnt have this problem in the first place.
[QUOTE=aydin690;52621255]Nice cherry picking but i wasn't expecting anything else from you tudd:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Xbi9Cqt.png[/IMG]
"OH MY GAWWD, actual nazis were confronted"[/QUOTE]
You can guarantee me that every person assaulted was a bonafide nazi?
Kinda scary that you seem to automatically assume that with no evidence to back it up, besides knowing the victims were maybe right-wing.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621800]You can guarantee me that every person assaulted was a bonafide nazi?
kinda scary that people here seem to automatically assume that with no evidence to back it up besides knowing the victims were maybe right-wing.[/QUOTE]
I don't see anybody here claiming that.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52621806]I don't see anybody here claiming that.[/QUOTE]
I think the general rule here is to make your statements absolute so nothing can be twisted by "them". Because this is a point that they can and will use everything you say against you.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52621806]I don't see anybody here claiming that.[/QUOTE]
I think it is fairly evident that the person I am quoting uses Nazis to describe the people attacked with no evidence of that whatsoever.
You get one mention of Trump Supporters from him, but he also makes it sound like they only deal in violence. Which is hugely careless and just him trying to further justify violence in a democratic society.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621813]I think it is fairly evident that the person I am quoting uses Nazis to describe the people attacked with no evidence of that whatsoever.
You get one mention of Trump Supporters from him, but he also makes it sound like they only deal in violence. Which is hugely careless and just him trying to further justify violence in a democratic society.[/QUOTE]
His mentions of Nazis describes the ideology the protesters are protesting against. Not those being attacked.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52621849]His mentions of Nazis describes the ideology the protesters are protesting against. Not those being attacked.[/QUOTE]
[quote]"OH MY GAWWD, actual nazis were confronted"[/quote]
[quote]Well, violence is the only language nazis and trump supports understand.[/quote]
I'm happy you can make his argument more nuanced for him. It is pretty obvious that he isn't thinking of just nazi ideology being confronted peacefully.
honestly, antifa are no better than neo-nazis
they might be on the opposite side but they are just as retarded
to put it bluntly the world would be a much better place if both sides just fucking killed each other off
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;52621872]honestly, antifa are no better than neo-nazis
they might be on the opposite side but they are just as retarded
to put it bluntly the world would be a much better place if both sides just fucking killed each other off[/QUOTE]
You're comparing poison that will make you sick to poison that will kill you. Yeah they are both pretty fucking bad but Neo-Nazis are in a whole different level.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621800]You can guarantee me that every person assaulted was a bonafide nazi?
Kinda scary that you seem to automatically assume that with no evidence to back it up, besides knowing the victims were maybe right-wing.[/QUOTE]
Can you guarantee that every one of these assaulters are representitive of antifa or just this whole anti white nationalist movement in general?
Your own source stated that of 2000 largely peaceful protestors, these 100 folk where the ones that came for the violence (and other sources here portray even fewer people actually doing anything violent).
Yet, in your op, you stated
[QUOTE]
... Especially with how often Antifa storm in armed against other groups who are law-abiding and disarmed by the checkpoints that just get broken. [/QUOTE]
Please, stop cherry picking to paint a whole side bad for this "the alt right is being persecuted" narrative. By all means, these violent few deserve legal punishment to the fullest extent, regardless of who they beat up, but they do not represent the rest of this pushback movement against the neonazis who wish to kill many of us.
[QUOTE=Megadave;52621882]You're comparing poison that will make you sick to poison that will kill you. Yeah they are both pretty fucking bad but Neo-Nazis are in a whole different level.[/QUOTE]
I would like to point out again that the people attacked in this rally probably weren't Nazis.
Also Antifa is just as dangerous, they hide behind the rhetorical shield of fighting Nazis, but have no problem using violence on anyone that disagrees with them.
[editline]28th August 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=da space core;52621896]Can you guarantee that every one of these assaulters are representitive of antifa or just this whole anti white nationalist movement in general?
Your own source stated that of 2000 largely peaceful protestors, these 100 folk where the ones that came for the violence (and other sources here portray even fewer people actually doing anything violent).
Yet, in your op, you stated
Please, stop cherry picking to paint a whole side bad for this "the alt right is being persecuted" narrative. By all means, these violent few deserve legal punishment to the fullest extent, regardless of who they beat up, but they do not represent the rest of this pushback movement against the neonazis who wish to kill many of us.[/QUOTE]
You know I am actually quite saddened that these people took over a larger peaceful protest. I am not trying to hide the fact it was largely peaceful as you claimed. It is all within the OP that this was largely peaceful until Antifa stormed in.
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;52621872]honestly, antifa are no better than neo-nazis
they might be on the opposite side but they are just as retarded
to put it bluntly the world would be a much better place if both sides just fucking killed each other off[/QUOTE]
The thing about antifa which makes it difficult to discuss is that there is no real organization behind it. Anyone can claim to be them. I can strip myself naked and preach in front of a taco bell and claim I did it for antifa.
With groups like antifa (and to a lesser extent, blm), its better to talk about them on a case by case basis. In this event, I fully support those that showed up peacefully, and condemn the ones who didn't and caused hurt.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621898]I would like to point out again that the people attacked in this rally probably weren't Nazis.
Also Antifa is just as dangerous, they hide behind the rhetorical shield of fighting Nazis, but have no problem using violence on anyone that disagrees with them.
[editline]28th August 2017[/editline]
You know I am actually quite saddened that these people took over a larger peaceful protest. I am not trying to hide the fact it was largely peaceful as you claimed.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say they were Neo-Nazis, I just said Neo-Nazis are definitely worse than Anti-Fa, there is no same about it. Yeah, they can be pretty damn bad, but they are not the same.
[QUOTE=Megadave;52621908]I didn't say they were Neo-Nazis, I just said Neo-Nazis are definitely worse than Anti-Fa, there is no same about it. Yeah, they can be pretty damn bad, but they are not the same.[/QUOTE]
That's fine if you think one is worse than the other.
But going off history of Communists (Antifa members largely identify Anarcho-Commmunist) and Nazi governments, my choice is to have neither groups given a pass.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621912]That's fine if you think one is worse than the other.
But going off history of Communists (Antifa members largely identify Anarcho-Commmunist) and Nazi governments, my choice is to have neither groups given a pass.[/QUOTE]
So now you're saying Communists ie political activists who advocate for a different (albeit inefficient) economic model, are just as bad as Nazis ie people who advocate for racial supremacy and genocide?
Yeah no shit dictatorial communist regimes have killed lots of people. Do you see protesters advocating for that though? Like you see neo-nazis chanting "death to Jews"? Quit acting like the two are equivalent.
Antifas are generally scum but I wouldn't say they're as bad as people vying for ethnic cleansing.
[QUOTE=aydin690;52621255]Nice cherry picking but i wasn't expecting anything else from you tudd:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Xbi9Cqt.png[/IMG]
"OH MY GAWWD, actual nazis were confronted"[/QUOTE]
Are you telling me these guys show up masked and in riot gear with shields and baseball bats to protest peacefully?
If you beat people up over political opinions, you are no better than neo-nazis.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621912]That's fine if you think one is worse than the other.
But going off history of Communists (Antifa members largely identify Anarcho-Commmunist) and Nazi governments, my choice is to have neither groups given a pass.[/QUOTE]
I don't buy the statement that antifa are largely anarcho-communist. Do you have any proof for that?
[QUOTE=V12US;52621969]If you beat people up over political opinions, you are no better than neo-nazis.[/QUOTE]
People advocating for violence against nazis for their (abhorrent) political opinions are still better than people advocating for the killing of people for their skin color.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52621952]So now you're saying Communists ie political activists who advocate for a different (albeit inefficient) economic model, are just as bad as Nazis ie people who advocate for racial supremacy and genocide?
Yeah no shit dictatorial communist regimes have killed lots of people. Do you see protesters advocating for that though? Like you see neo-nazis chanting "death to Jews"? Quit acting like the two are equivalent.[/QUOTE]
Well, seems like everyone here was fine using logical conclusions and historical assumptions on groups with little to no evidence. These right-wing protesters weren't chanting anything like what you just quoted as far as I can see though.
And "Communism is just an economic model" is a weak argument when we can get dirty talking about how Fascism doesn't inherently warrant racial supremacy and genocide to it.
At the end of the day, people who try to implement communism and fascism tend to use violence to achieve the homogenous opinion required for their ideas to work. In my opinion, it doesn't really matter which I think is more abhorrent since both ideologies allow for authoritative governments to be used for evil. Both ideologies have tens of millions of corpses to show how bad of an idea they both are.
Unlike Antifa though, I think freedom of speech is an idea that helps alleviate political violence by making public political discourse a norm and encouraged method to spread ideas, and such a platform generally makes authoritative ideologies look awful in the long run since they are counterintuitive to free-market principles.
Antifa on the other-hand is doing a fine job trying to make political violence the norm at the moment, and that is a bad thing for both sides of the argument. Neo-nazis are a group to also watch out for, but it seems that term is slowly but surely being broadened to the point of watering down.
[QUOTE=V12US;52621969]Are you telling me these guys show up masked and in riot gear with shields and baseball bats to protest peacefully?
If you beat people up over political opinions, you are no better than neo-nazis.[/QUOTE]
First two sentences in the OP my dude
[QUOTE]Black-clad anarchists on Sunday stormed into what had been a largely peaceful Berkeley protest against hate and attacked at least five people, including the leader of a politically conservative group who canceled an event a day earlier in San Francisco amid fears of violence.
The group of more than 100 hooded protesters, with shields emblazoned with the words "no hate" and waving a flag identifying themselves as anarchists, busted through police lines, avoiding security checks by officers to take away possible weapons. Then the anarchists blended with a crowd of 2,000 largely peaceful protesters who turned up to demonstrate in a "Rally Against Hate" opposed to a much smaller gathering of right-wing protesters.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=_Axel;52621978]People advocating for violence against nazis for their (abhorrent) political opinions are still better than people advocating for the killing of people for their skin color.[/QUOTE]
That is a very scary thing to say and I hope you eventually realize that as well.
Is it possible these guys are planted agitators? Far right/authoritarians have been known to plant provocateurs in crowds in order to start violence.
[QUOTE=V12US;52621998]That is a very scary thing to say and I hope you eventually realize that as well.[/QUOTE]
Genocide is also scary, and I understand people who will do anything to stop it from happening again.
[QUOTE=V12US;52621998]That is a very scary thing to say and I hope you eventually realize that as well.[/QUOTE]
What's the difference between 1930s era partisans killing Nazis and 2017 College students beating up Nazis? Should we wait until Nazis are rounding people up and putting them in camps before we can feel morally justified in attacking them?
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