[QUOTE=V12US;52621998]That is a very scary thing to say and I hope you eventually realize that as well.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, how is that scary? Nowhere did I say either were good, but this ~just as bad~ bullshit is retarded and aims to downplay how fucking abhorrent Nazi ideology is.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52622015]I'm sorry, how is that scary? Nowhere did I say either were good, but this ~just as bad~ bullshit is retarded and aims to downplay how fucking abhorrent Nazi ideology is.[/QUOTE]
Many people aren't acutely aware of how murderous an empire fascism/naziism was, and how the nazis began their campaign democratically, and how it was the people of the countries they were active in that allowed naziism to spread.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52622015]I'm sorry, how is that scary? Nowhere did I say either were good, but this ~just as bad~ bullshit is retarded and aims to downplay how fucking abhorrent Nazi ideology is.[/QUOTE]
Freedom of speech is important, even if it means you have to deal with Neo-Nazis and other assorted garbage like Westboro Baptists and the KKK. Once you tolerate violence against people with offensive opinions, freedom of speech is dead and that [b]will[/b] come back to bite you in the ass eventually.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52622010]What's the difference between 1930s era partisans killing Nazis and 2017 College students beating up Nazis? Should we wait until Nazis are rounding people up and putting them in camps before we can feel morally justified in attacking them?[/QUOTE]
Hopefully the difference is we don't end up with the equivalent of a Nazi third reich in the coming decade.
I'd argue the alt-right already is a backlash to social justice and PC culture. This is a monster the extreme left created.
[QUOTE=V12US;52622039]Freedom of speech is important, even if it means you have to deal with Neo-Nazis and other assorted garbage like Westboro Baptists and the KKK. Once you tolerate violence against people with offensive opinions, freedom of speech is dead and that [b]will[/b] come back to bite you in the ass eventually.[/QUOTE]
On the other hand, if you tolerate naziism and treat it as a valid political opinion, eventually not only will free speech be dead, but so will 10 million jews
[QUOTE=V12US;52622039]Freedom of speech is important, even if it means you have to deal with Neo-Nazis and other assorted garbage like Westboro Baptists and the KKK. Once you tolerate violence against people with offensive opinions, freedom of speech is dead and that [b]will[/b] come back to bite you in the ass eventually.[/QUOTE]
As much as I agree with that, if you threaten to kill one person you can still be arrested, I'm not sure how supporting an ideology that threatens millions with death is much different.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52621999]Is it possible these guys are planted agitators? Far right/authoritarians have been known to plant provocateurs in crowds in order to start violence.[/QUOTE]
It's possible they're also Russian spies sent in by Putin.
Their shields being made from parts of MH370.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52622045]On the other hand, if you tolerate naziism and treat it as a valid political opinion, eventually not only will free speech be dead, but so will 10 million jews[/QUOTE]
Since when is Nazism a valid political opinion?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52622010]What's the difference between 1930s era partisans killing Nazis and 2017 College students beating up Nazis? Should we wait until Nazis are rounding people up and putting them in camps before we can feel morally justified in attacking them?[/QUOTE]
Overton window is shifted to the left that just right wing people are branded nazis.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52621976]I don't buy the statement that antifa are largely anarcho-communist. Do you have any proof for that?[/QUOTE]
Well just like how people argue that Antifa are hard to blame as an organization for a lack of structure and cohesiveness, I will admit there is no solid data to put a singular purpose behind Antifa members.
But there are several assessments and observations of them one could easily make;
[quote]But what is antifa? Where did it come from? Militant anti-fascist or “antifa” (pronounced ANtifa) is a radical pan-leftist politics of social revolution applied to fighting the far right. Its adherents are predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists who reject turning to the police or the state to halt the advance of white supremacy. Instead they advocate popular opposition to fascism as we witnessed in Charlottesville.[/quote]
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/[/url]
[quote]Antifa is not a monolithic organization, nor does it have anything like a hierarchical leadership structure. It’s an umbrella group that shares a number of causes, the most important of which is resisting white nationalist movements. Adherents are mostly socialists, anarchists, and communists who, according to Mark Bray, a historian at Dartmouth College and author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, “reject turning to the police or the state to halt the advance of white supremacy. Instead they advocate popular opposition to fascism as we witnessed in Charlottesville.”[/quote]
[url]https://www.vox.com/2017/8/25/16189064/antifa-charlottesville-activism-mark-bray-interview[/url]
Here is a large community of Anarcho-Communists on facebook posting mostly Antifa material in support.
[url]https://www.facebook.com/pg/anarchocommie/posts/?ref=page_internal[/url]
Not to mention they typically wear the colors of red/black and stylize their flags to be reminiscent of the actual Anarcho-Communist flag.
[QUOTE=Omesh;52622063]Overton window is shifted to the left that just right wing people are branded nazis.[/QUOTE]
Nobody in this thread is implying that all Right Wingers are Nazis.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52621999]Is it possible these guys are planted agitators? Far right/authoritarians have been known to plant provocateurs in crowds in order to start violence.[/QUOTE]
Funny you should mention that; The actual history and formation of the black-bloc movement we know today has origins from an unsolved murder in West Germany where a student protestor was shot unprovoked by a cop.
Turned out the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benno_Ohnesorg#Re-investigation]Cop[/url] was a Stasi agent and ardent communist supporter.
So in an ironic way, Antifa might have stemmed and formed from a planted agitator by hard left-wing governments actors.
But to answer your question, probably not considering there is no evidence to support a claim, and plenty of evidence that Antifa groups do this type of activity all the time at protests.
[QUOTE=Megadave;52622068]Nobody in this thread is implying that all Right Wingers are Nazis.[/QUOTE]
Why would I mean specifically people in this thread without mentioning that? But even so that does not seem true.
From the article:
[QUOTE]Black-clad anarchists on Sunday stormed into what had been a largely peaceful Berkeley protest against hate and attacked at least five people, including the leader of a [B]politically conservative group[/B] who canceled an event a day earlier in San Francisco amid fears of violence.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Among those assaulted was Joey Gibson, the leader of the Patriot Prayer group, which canceled a Saturday rally and was then prevented from holding a news conference when authorities closed off the public square Gibson planned to use. [B]Gibson has denounced racism[/B] and said he launched Patriot Prayer after several supporters of President Donald Trump were beaten at a Trump campaign stop in San Jose, California, last year.[/QUOTE]
From the thread:
[QUOTE=aydin690;52621255]"OH MY GAWWD, actual nazis were confronted"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=aydin690;52621267]Well, violence is the only language nazis and trump supports understand.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Omesh;52622099]Why would I mean specifically people in this thread without mentioning that? But even so that does not seem true.
From the article:
From the thread:[/QUOTE]
He says Nazis and Trump supporters but I don't see anything about right wingers. Keep in mind even left wingers support Trump for some god awful reason.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52622045]On the other hand, if you tolerate naziism and treat it as a valid political opinion, eventually not only will free speech be dead, but so will 10 million jews[/QUOTE]
KPD communists preceded nazis in Germany including a revolution in 1918-1919. I'd say that boosted nazi popularity especially when they have red terror, holodomor happening in the east. If you want to prevent nazis then you should also prevent violent antifa. After all they are an integral part in the precedent we have of nazism rising and I'd say really more prevalent so far in number of recent events. Almost like it's repeating in some way.
[QUOTE=Megadave;52622112]He says Nazis and Trump supporters but I don't see anything about right wingers. Keep in mind even left wingers support Trump for some god awful reason.[/QUOTE]
Why make the distinction, if you think they are nazis. Surely a left wing supporter is an exception not the average?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52621249]We made a strategic decision to let angry anarchists run wild and do whatever they want.
Not the kind of strategy I would hope for, these police were useless, they completely failed in their duties to keep the peace and protect civilians. Just break out the riot gear and let them know there will be a swift response to the violence.[/QUOTE]
They probably thought they would be accused of being white nationalist sympathizers if they tried to stop antifa but let the rally continue.
When you got police in Charlottesville doing fuck all to stop the neo-nazis and then cops in California actually try to do their fucking job and get hammered for it, it just creates a bigger mess and confusion.
People often forget that the rise in popularity (or atleast the moderates accepting their extreme views) of Nazis was the fighting the communists were demonstrating in the Ruhr and streets before with right-wing/government elements during the late 10's, 1920s and 30s. Infact, it is easy to see why people would disregard the anti-semitic message and join the nazis if they were anti-communist at the time.
Not to say that communists caused the nazis to get more popular is a sole reason at all, but it was a big one to push moderates into one extreme camp when these groups fought in the street, and people started to place bets on which was the better group.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621990]Well, seems like everyone here was fine using logical conclusions and historical assumptions on groups with little to no evidence. These right-wing protesters weren't chanting anything like what you just quoted as far as I can see though.[/quote]
I wasn't referring to them specifically. You're the one equating Communists with Nazis at large.
[Quote]And "Communism is just an economic model" is a weak argument when we can get dirty talking about how Fascism doesn't inherently warrant racial supremacy and genocide to it.[/quote]
I'm sorry, are you trying to imply Nazis aren't necessarily genocidal racists?
[Quote]At the end of the day, people who try to implement communism and fascism tend to use violence to achieve the homogenous opinion required for their ideas to work. In my opinion, it doesn't really matter which I think is more abhorrent since both ideologies allow for authoritative governments to be used for evil. Both ideologies have tens of millions of corpses to show how bad of an idea they both are.[/quote]
We're talking specifically about Nazism here, stop trying to shoehorn Fascism in.
And no, the two ideologies are not morally equivalent, despite what your morally blind self seems to think. One of them has genocide as its [I]end goal[/I].
[Quote]Unlike Antifa though, I think freedom of speech is an idea that helps alleviate political violence by making public political discourse a norm and encouraged method to spread ideas, and such a platform generally makes authoritative ideologies look awful in the long run since they are counterintuitive to free-market principles.[/quote]
What do you mean, "unlike Antifa"? Are you trying to imply fucking Nazis are all for freedom of speech? I thought you were okay with using historical precedent to put Communists on equal footing with Nazis, why does that suddenly stop when it comes to the Nazis' version of "free speech"?
[Quote]Antifa on the other-hand is doing a fine job trying to make political violence the norm at the moment, and that is a bad thing for both sides of the argument. Neo-nazis are a group to also watch out for, but it seems that term is slowly but surely being broadened to the point of watering down.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me? Antifa are the one normalizing political violence? As far as I recall they have yet to reenact the [I]fucking Nice attack[/I] on their political opponents.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52622067]
Not to mention they typically wear the colors of red/black and stylize their flags to be reminiscent of the actual Anarcho-Communist flag.[/QUOTE]
The red and black diagonal flag is not exclusive to ancoms. The flag symbolizes anarchism (black) and socialism (red) and is used by several schools of libertarian socialism, including anarcho-communism, anarcho-collectivism, anarcho-syndicalism and platformist anarchism. Even mutualists, who are in favour of socialist market economies, use the red and black in their symbolism.
Also note that ancoms are opposed to Leninists and tankies in general. They do not want another Soviet Union.
[QUOTE=V12US;52622039]Freedom of speech is important, even if it means you have to deal with Neo-Nazis and other assorted garbage like Westboro Baptists and the KKK. Once you tolerate violence against people with offensive opinions, freedom of speech is dead and that [b]will[/b] come back to bite you in the ass eventually.[/quote]
My freedom of speech isn't worth much when the people I talk to are incapable of basic reading comprehension.
Where the fuck have I said political violence is tolerable?
[Quote]I'd argue the alt-right already is a backlash to social justice and PC culture. This is a monster the extreme left created.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah I'm sure PC culture somehow turned people into hard-boiled racists.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52622157]People often forget that the rise in popularity (or atleast the moderates accepting their extreme views) of Nazis was the fighting the communists were demonstrating in the Ruhr and streets before with right-wing/government elements during the late 10's, 1920s and 30s. Infact, it is easy to see why people would disregard the anti-semitic message and join the nazis if they were anti-communist at the time.
Not to say that communists caused the nazis to get more popular is a sole reason at all, but it was a big one to push moderates into one extreme camp when these groups fought in the street, and people started to place bets on which was the better group.[/QUOTE]
Disregard the anti-Semitic message to fight the communists?
The fucking Nazi message is nothing but anti-semitic. There are no moderate people joining it to fight communists. You don't have to join the fucking genocide supporters to fight a group of idiots.
You can be anti-Nazi and anti-communist at the same time, jfc.
[QUOTE=V12US;52622039]Hopefully the difference is we don't end up with the equivalent of a Nazi third reich in the coming decade.
I'd argue the alt-right already is a backlash to social justice and PC culture. This is a monster the extreme left created.[/QUOTE]
Dude the Republican Party has attempted to appeal towards racists since at least the 80s
[video=youtube;X_8E3ENrKrQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8E3ENrKrQ[/video]
[editline]28th August 2017[/editline]
Maybe some leftist assholes on the internet got overzealous but the GOP sold itself to the devil.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52621615]How do you wanna bet that the Alt-right is paying these groups.[/QUOTE]
Can we not turn the left's arguments into the equivalent of "SOROS PLANTS!!!1!" as well, please?
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621898]Also Antifa is just as dangerous[/QUOTE]
No they aren't.
If there is one thing that the US Government has taught me that works, it's if someone doesn't agree with you, violence is always the answer.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621898]I would like to point out again that the people attacked in this rally probably weren't Nazis.
Also Antifa is just as dangerous, they hide behind the rhetorical shield of fighting Nazis, but have no problem using violence on anyone that disagrees with them.[/QUOTE]
Yo, how about neo-nazi's like Johnny Benitez at your "free speech" rally?
Loading Tweet...
[URL]https://twitter.com/shane_bauer/status/901902260384350208[/URL]
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621898] [B]Also Antifa is just as dangerous[/B], they hide behind the rhetorical shield of fighting Nazis, but have no problem using violence on anyone that disagrees with them.[/QUOTE]
No. No, no, no, nope, nadda, no. Nope.
Holy fuck how is this still a thing [I]anyone[/I] thinks. Lets dive into a blog about violence among radical ideologies in the US, [URL="https://www.cato.org/blog/terrorism-deaths-ideology-charlottesville-anomaly"]shall we[/URL]? Right off the bat, Islamists take a huge chunk as this data includes the 9/11 attacks: that's not relevant to the discussion at hand, though. Of the remaining though, there were 219 murders by right-wing terror groups and 23 by left-wing groups (consult the article for what kinds of terrorists fit in these groups: right is a lot more than jsut neo-nazis, left is a lot more than just Antifa). So, folks like antifa murdered 9.5 times fewer people in the same time period. But lets consider injuries next, shall we? 998 injuries due to right wing terrorist attacks... and [U]46[/U] due to left-wing terror attacks. Or, very nearly [I]twenty-fucking-two[/I] times as many injuries were caused in the name of right-wing causes vs left-wing.
Stop trying to paint Antifa as equally dangerous, deadly, or violent: they simple aren't. Are they reprehensible? Yes. Do they deserve to face the consequences of their actions? Abso-fucking-lutely! Buuuuut, there are still far fewer actions by Antifa-aligned groups that will [I]require[/I] action. This particular incident seems to be a case somewhat akin to Charlottesville: an instance of the local police force failing to maintain a stable situation, and failing to step in when things got out of hand.
Also I swear to god if you turn this around to the death/violence caused by islamists, as mentioned in the article, I will find a way to reach through the tubes of the internet and slap you.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52622174]I wasn't referring to them specifically. You're the one equating Communists with Nazis at large.[/quote]
Well considering I was originally referring to a user who was talking about these protesters specifically, I really don't see why your point that Nazis are bad on a grander scale is relevant unless you are trying to imply the people assaulted were Nazis.
[quote]
I'm sorry, are you trying to imply Nazis aren't necessarily genocidal racists?[/quote]
Well considering literal Nazi voters numbered in the millions and after denazification with largely the same population existing Germany 5-10 years later weren't still genocidal except for fringe elements; That would be a good indicator that people can change their opinion or were largely not in favor of genocide to be maniacs about it.
Not only that, but there Nazis who joined the party who weren't Genocidal maniacs. There was a spectrum of Albert Speer/John Rabe/Oscar Schindler-types to your Himmlers/Eichmanns/Heydrichs. Collectively judge Nazis you want, because I do too, but judging individuals is far more important when we talk about dishing out punitive charges.
[quote]
We're talking specifically about Nazism here, stop trying to shoehorn Fascism in.
And no, the two ideologies are not morally equivalent, despite what your morally blind self seems to think. One of them has genocide as its [I]end goal[/I].[/quote]
Actually it would be more accurate to compare National Socialism to Lenist/Stalinist Communism. So in a way you are correct you can't compare a branch of a greater economic model from Fascism to Communism, but I think alot of people on this forum fail to acknowledge that you can't just use these terms interchangeably.
[quote]
What do you mean, "unlike Antifa"? Are you trying to imply fucking Nazis are all for freedom of speech? I thought you were okay with using historical precedent to put Communists on equal footing with Nazis, why does that suddenly stop when it comes to the Nazis' version of "free speech"?[/quote]
Real Nazis are not for freedom of speech, but they can and have operated within it, because obviously it is a system that allows them to spread their message. The only reason I talk about Antifa as the exception here is because they are openly attacking freedom of speech at the moment and hurting those who exercise it (even if their opinions are absolutely horrid). Otherwise I think both groups would clamp down on it if given the chance, and ironically had you asked me in the 1960's which group I am more worried about clamping down on Freedom of Speech, it would have been right-wing elements.
[quote]
Excuse me? Antifa are the one normalizing political violence? As far as I recall they have yet to reenact the [I]fucking Nice attack[/I] on their political opponents.[/QUOTE]
By and large they have normalized political violence at rallies. You would have to be willfully ignorant by now to suggest that the rise of in the street fighting was started and caused by right-wing aggressors when Charlottsville is the only clear case of that. People not having died from the weapons, explosives, or gang tactics used by Antifa regularly is quite a miracle. Especially with the one leftist extremist who tried to hunt Republicans down in a baseball park or the recently charged Bike-lock fugitive.
Honestly, we could just point at specific scenarios all day, but I am more worried about the violence that gets to fly under the radar than the one that the overwhelming majority of Americans are against.
[editline]28th August 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=aydin690;52623181]Yo, how about neo-nazi's like Johnny Benitez at your "free speech" rally?
Loading Tweet...
[URL]https://twitter.com/shane_bauer/status/901902260384350208[/URL][/QUOTE]
So how does that justify any of the curb stomping of people in the videos? You seem to be skirting around the fact you proclaimed that actual Nazis were confronted, but I am more interested why you think violence was a tenable tactic to use at this rally.
[editline]28th August 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=paindoc;52623193]No. No, no, no, nope, nadda, no. Nope.
Holy fuck how is this still a thing [I]anyone[/I] thinks. Lets dive into a blog about violence among radical ideologies in the US, [URL="https://www.cato.org/blog/terrorism-deaths-ideology-charlottesville-anomaly"]shall we[/URL]? Right off the bat, Islamists take a huge chunk as this data includes the 9/11 attacks: that's not relevant to the discussion at hand, though. Of the remaining though, there were 219 murders by right-wing terror groups and 23 by left-wing groups (consult the article for what kinds of terrorists fit in these groups: right is a lot more than jsut neo-nazis, left is a lot more than just Antifa). So, folks like antifa murdered 9.5 times fewer people in the same time period. But lets consider injuries next, shall we? 998 injuries due to right wing terrorist attacks... and [U]46[/U] due to left-wing terror attacks. Or, very nearly [I]twenty-fucking-two[/I] times as many injuries were caused in the name of right-wing causes vs left-wing. [/quote]
Couple of problems with these charts in general (and why you shouldn't build your political philosophy always on charts) is that the data can be construed in wide range of ways.
One thing I will point out is that alot of this same data gets widely reinterpreted to fit any ideology. For example:
- It common for some groups to ignore terrorists attacks past 2001, and thus leave out the 9/11 attacks if they want to make Islamic extremism to look lower.
- It is also common for these types of studies to lump in Right/nationalist attacks together in weird ways. Like having Sovereign citizens/preppers killing cops and Neo-Nazis assassinating racial groups together despite widely different motives and basis for their killings. Same thing applies for the left-wing attacks. In my opinion these are gross-generalizations.
- Even [url=http://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf]one government study[/url] that is popularly shared actually only counts "instances" instead of number dead for their conclusion, which heavily skews the data to appear that Islamic terrorism is less dangerous than right-wing terrorism despite the body counts grossly accounted for by radical Islamist.
- Another issue is that Antifa is relatively a new phenomenon for America. So it would be abit early to start using data of the last 20 years to show that group that only gained regular prominence recently would be represented in that data.
The chart you listed avoids some of the pitfalls I mentioned earlier, but it is from a libertarian think tank, so just be aware that data can be contrived.
[quote]
Stop trying to paint Antifa as equally dangerous, deadly, or violent: they simple aren't. Are they reprehensible? Yes. Do they deserve to face the consequences of their actions? Abso-fucking-lutely! Buuuuut, there are still far fewer actions by Antifa-aligned groups that will [I]require[/I] action. This particular incident seems to be a case somewhat akin to Charlottesville: an instance of the local police force failing to maintain a stable situation, and failing to step in when things got out of hand. [/quote]
Again I think people are ignoring or forgetting that there were riots at Berkeley and many other campuses where people were nearly killed (like the Bike lock fugitive) or the left-wing crazy person who tried to kill Republicans.
[quote]
Also I swear to god if you turn this around to the death/violence caused by islamists, as mentioned in the article, I will find a way to reach through the tubes of the internet and slap you.[/QUOTE]
Well I honestly don't like the study in general since most of these extremist studies use the same numbers, but still have widely different conclusions based on their methodology.
Like to be real, I actually do consider terrorist attacks post-9/11 to be quite separate from 9/11 itself in their nature and implementation. So I can see the justification why some studies omit deaths from 9/11 and only look past the date.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52621898]
Also Antifa is just as dangerous, they hide behind the rhetorical shield of fighting Nazis,[/QUOTE]
Ho ho ho... I about spewed soda out of my nose when i read this.
Let me take you down History lane my friend....
[IMG]https://no-genocide.com/webroot/upload/images/Holocaust.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.forward.com/images/cropped/gettyimages-807500-1485551452.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cvwnp89NPOM/VSAIt7mURXI/AAAAAAAAU00/Cze6Zp9HLvI/s1600/Holocaust%2Bvictim%2Bmass%2Bgrave.jpg[/IMG]
Antifa can be bad sometimes. But it is a fucking insult to the victims who died by the Nazis to compare Antifa to these Monsters.
Im sorry Tudd...but your head is about a Kilometer up your ass...
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;52621956]Antifas are generally scum but I wouldn't say they're as bad as people vying for ethnic cleansing.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much my thoughts. You can say all you want about them, but they aren't advocating for injustice and murder based on factors that aren't the choices and character of the person (I'm trying not to make it sound like murder or injustice should be the consequence for choices and character of the persons, that should be up to their actions and the court of law). You can agree with some things with a person and still think they're a piece of shit for their actions, but advocating and attempting to work towards a repeat of the most horrific points of our planet's history is unjustifiable.
[QUOTE=Uber22;52623772]Ho ho ho... I about spewed soda out of my nose when i read this.
Let me take you down History lane my friend....
[IMG]https://no-genocide.com/webroot/upload/images/Holocaust.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.forward.com/images/cropped/gettyimages-807500-1485551452.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cvwnp89NPOM/VSAIt7mURXI/AAAAAAAAU00/Cze6Zp9HLvI/s1600/Holocaust%2Bvictim%2Bmass%2Bgrave.jpg[/IMG]
Get back to me when you can find evidence of Antifa being the same as Nazis, Tudd...
Antifa can be bad sometimes. But it is a fucking insult to the victims who died by the Nazis to compare Antifa to the Nazis...[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the imagery, though I have worked at a Holocaust Museum and do my studies related to it so such images are not new to me. Nor do I not acknowledge their horrifying nature.
Should I retort with equally horrific images of Communist/revolutionary war crimes and draw correlations with past communists to ones in Antifa, or can I save us the logical fallacy that someone can win an argument like this with pure emotional appeal and saying "they are Nazis"?
One should realize that even the neo-nazis at Charlottsville are quite different from neo-nazis of the 80s-00s, and the real nazis of the 1940's. You would actually have a hard time finding serious Genocidal quotes from them as they mostly focus on Ethno-statism as their end goal or in some cases just identitarian-race advocacy nowadays. Doesn't make the potential any less dangerous, but to think that modern-day white nationalists are murderers to the same degree as Nazis of the 1940s is just attributing too much to them.
Again, my question has been mainly why is it okay to be for the violence displayed in the video? Where we don't have any clear clue the people attacked were even Nazis to begin with.
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