High School Teacher Writes Letter Denying Rape Culture, Enrages Students - Sensationalist Headlines

you guys know rape culture doesn't literally mean a culture where rape is legal or encouraged right?

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195026] I've never actually seen anyone say this. They generally say something like, "Maybe it would be smart for women not to do X in order to decrease their likelihood of being assaulted (like walking along down a dark ally)," and then people call it victim blaming as if the person was saying the attack was their fault. [editline]6th May 2017[/editline] The defending of actual, clear, rape I've seen is in the context of sports or high powered business and it has nothing to do with defending rape; it has to do with defending the person in question.[/QUOTE] I mean, uh, [url=https://mic.com/articles/141781/here-are-9-times-clothing-was-blamed-for-sexual-assault-rather-than-the-obvious#.Sw3MZBOxH]sure?[/url]

[QUOTE=Camdude90;52195119]you guys know rape culture doesn't literally mean a culture where rape is legal or encouraged right?[/QUOTE] Glad it's called rape culture then if it doesn't have much to do with rape then.

[QUOTE=Thlis;52195068]By that logic you could point to antifa videos and claim the western world is a culture of leftist facism[/QUOTE] Are you struggling, mate? Western world isn't [I]a culture[/I], it's a place. A place with many cultures, some of them tightly tied to a particular ethnicity, nationality or, you know, people who like a particular style of music? Nobody [I]ever[/I] suggested "rape culture" defines ALL of the west, or ALL the culture there. It's just one of the cultures harboured by some of the people there, and it's sadly a significant number of people. And yes, some places in the west have rather strong affinity with left-wing fascism, which can at times take on practically cultural shape, although since it's mostly matter of politics it's debatable if that isn't the better term for it. [quote]Culture (/ˈkʌltʃər/) can be defined in many different ways. In the words of anthropologist E.B. Tylor, it is "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, morals, law, custom and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society."[1] Alternatively, in a contemporary variant, "Culture is defined as a social domain that emphasizes the practices, discourses and material expressions, which, over time, express the continuities and discontinuities of social meaning of a life held in common."[2] The Cambridge English Dictionary states that culture is "the way of life, especially the general customs and beliefs, of a particular group of people at a particular time."[3] Terror management theory posits that culture is a series of activities and worldviews that provide humans with the basis for perceiving themselves as "person[s] of worth within the world of meaning"—raising themselves above the merely physical aspects of existence, in order to deny the animal insignificance and death that Homo sapiens became aware of when they acquired a larger brain.[4][5][/quote] I shouldn't have to explain this and paste Wikipedia, for a (forgive me an assumption based on your post flag icon here) native English speaking person.

[QUOTE=millan;52195121]I mean, uh, [url=https://mic.com/articles/141781/here-are-9-times-clothing-was-blamed-for-sexual-assault-rather-than-the-obvious#.Sw3MZBOxH]sure?[/url][/QUOTE] Any examples in the US? I can't really speak to other countries, especially when the only information I have to go off are a few paragraphs.

[QUOTE=Thlis;52195138]Glad it's called rape culture then if it doesn't have much to do with rape then.[/QUOTE] Are you intentionally trying to be thickheaded? You're leading on as if we're making hyperbolic claims about some rape-based dystopia, then when we clarify that no, what you're imagining is not what the term implies, then you're acting as if us responding to these misunderstandings of the term is a total backpedal when in reality you're setting up strawmen. Honestly, its disingenuous. 'Rape culture' [I]obviously[/I] still has everything to do with rape, [I]despite[/I] it not implying some grand dystopic rapeocracy like some seem to assume it means. Instead, as has been pointed out, it deals with the numerous ways which cultural attitudes around sex, gender roles, sexuality, beliefs about rape that implicitly or tacitly allow perpetrators to get away with rape, to normalize terrible attitudes towards victims, and to allow beliefs about sexuality that inherently promote rape as an act.If you have questions about that, stick within those boundaries, ask for clarifications, ask for data/evidence but for the love of god don't dwell in fallacious misappropriations of the discussion at hand.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195158]Any examples in the US? I can't really speak to other countries, especially when the only information I have to go off are a few paragraphs.[/QUOTE] ... [url]http://www.mediaite.com/online/chrissie-hynde-women-entice-rapists-with-provocative-clothing/[/url] And did you miss the whole [url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/stanford-sexual-assault-case]Stanford shitshow[/url] [url]http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Minnesota-football-rape-case-reveals-our-own-10828834.php[/url] The most fun is when somebody actually polls for these things [quote]What did the poll show, particularly about the 18 to 25 age group? The majority of men in that age bracket agree or strongly agree that the following factors contribute to a woman being sexually assaulted or raped: if she dresses in sexy or provocative clothing (71.8 percent); if she is flirtatious (62.8 percent); if she agrees to sex and changes her mind (66.7 percent); if she drinks too much/does too many drugs (73.1 percent); and if others know her to "sleep around" (62.8 percent). And before you think "what's happened to kids today?" consider that the percentage of people who fell into the "agree or strongly agree" camp was high across the age groups. For example, when it came to the idea of flirtation being a contributor to rape, 63.2 percent of men ages 46 to 55 agreed or strongly agreed, too.[/quote] It's not exactly hard to find this kind of information, do you really know nothing of this?

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195048]I'm pretty conservative and am surrounded by tons of conservatives and have never heard anyone say that. Can you post a real example of what you're talking about? At MOST I've heard someone say, "Women should be more modest in how they dress. The rape may not have happened if they had done so." But again, they aren't saying that they are at fault for the rape. They would still say the rapist is a horrible person who deserves the consequences.[/QUOTE] Wait, so what the fuck does "dress more modestly so you dont get raped" mean other than "its your fault you were raped".

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52194852]I think the biggest issues are in college and small towns, where authority figures will go out of their way to protect athletes accused of rape, in some cases gang rape where the entire local football team is involved.[/QUOTE] For example, the brock turner case.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195048]At MOST I've heard someone say, "Women should be more modest in how they dress. The rape may not have happened if they had done so." But again, they aren't saying that they are at fault for the rape.[/QUOTE] That is exactly the same as saying they were at fault. They're saying that a women's choice of outfit will get them raped, as if they were talking about the weather. "It's your fault you were (cold|raped), you shouldn't have dressed that way." No, not how it works. Not to mention most rape is not by a random man grabbing a woman, but by someone she trusted and they abused that trust and forced themselves on her.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52195299]That is exactly the same as saying they were at fault. They're saying that a women's choice of outfit will get them raped, as if they were talking about the weather. "It's your fault you were (cold|raped), you shouldn't have dressed that way." No, not how it works. Not to mention most rape is not by a random man grabbing a woman, but by someone she trusted and they abused that trust and forced themselves on her.[/QUOTE] Furthermore, if it is a random rape, the rapist will choose his victim on opportunity, not attractiveness. They'll choose someone going home alone at night, not someone walking with friends in broad daylight

Socially intervening to prevent people from self-expressing in dress is such a roundabout way of addressing what actually needs intervention (the prevailing attitudes which justify rapists taking advantage of people). Thats why its at best seen as unhelpful at worst as actually a part of the cultural complex of attitudes which prevent these issues from being dealt with.

[QUOTE=Action Frank;52195263]Wait, so what the fuck does "dress more modestly so you dont get raped" mean other than "its your fault you were raped".[/QUOTE] There's a HUGE difference. Let us say that I own a $100,000 piece of jewelry and I flippantly sit it outside one day and leave it without anyone watching. I come back a hour later and the jewelry is gone! Gasp! Am I at fault for the theft? No, of course not. The thief holds 100% fault for the theft, but does that mean I didn't make a bad choice? No, of course not. I was an idiot for leaving something valuable out in the open and will hopefully learn my lesson. In the same way, you can critique and advise women against certain things without saying that they are at fault for getting raped, assaulted, etc.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195398]There's a HUGE difference. Let us say that I own a $100,000 piece of jewelry and I flippantly sit it outside one day and leave it without anyone watching. I come back a hour later and the jewelry is gone! Gasp! Am I at fault for the theft? No, of course not. The thief holds 100% fault for the theft, but does that mean I didn't make a bad choice? No, of course not. I was an idiot for leaving something valuable out in the open and will hopefully learn my lesson. In the same way, you can critique and advise women against certain things without saying that they are at fault for getting raped, assaulted, etc.[/QUOTE] That's a pretty shit analogy. A much more on the point analogy would be if you wore it on your person, got mugged, and had to hear "dude why did you wear it in public and didn't cover it up?". And it also happens to be a "jewel" you can never take off your body on your own.

[QUOTE=millan;52195410]That's a pretty shit analogy. A much more on the point analogy would be if you wore it on your person, got mugged, and had to hear "dude why did you wear it in public and didn't cover it up?". And it also happens to be a "jewel" you can never take off your body on your own.[/QUOTE] ... Why is it a "shit analogy?" Give me something to work with other than an assertion. In what way does my hypothetical not accurately represent the difference between critiquing the victim's choices and laying blame for the crime on the victim?

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195398]There's a HUGE difference. Let us say that I own a $100,000 piece of jewelry and I flippantly sit it outside one day and leave it without anyone watching. I come back a hour later and the jewelry is gone! Gasp![/QUOTE] Except that's not comparable here. How do you even compare a human wearing clothing to leaving jewelry outside?

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52195420]Except that's not comparable here. How do you even compare a human wearing clothing to leaving jewelry outside.[/QUOTE] You are welcome to disagree with the logic behind those types of the claims. I'm not arguing that they are always right. My point is simply that advising women against certain behavior is not the same thing as saying they are responsible for getting raped.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195398]There's a HUGE difference. Let us say that I own a $100,000 piece of jewelry and I flippantly sit it outside one day and leave it without anyone watching. I come back a hour later and the jewelry is gone! Gasp! Am I at fault for the theft? No, of course not. The thief holds 100% fault for the theft, but does that mean I didn't make a bad choice? No, of course not. I was an idiot for leaving something valuable out in the open and will hopefully learn my lesson. In the same way, you can critique and advise women against certain things without saying that they are at fault for getting raped, assaulted, etc.[/QUOTE] Except a rapist isn't going to rape people just because they're scantily clad. This is a terrible analogy.

[QUOTE=omarfr;52195441]Except a rapist isn't going to rape people just because they're scantily clad. This is a terrible analogy.[/QUOTE] Is a thief only going to steal because something is valuable and easy to take? No, they aren't, but being valuable and easy to take makes a person who is predisposed to theft more likely to steal it. Again, I'm not making the argument at the moment that being scantily clad even makes you more likely to get raped. That's not my point. My point is that there are two issues here: 1) Choices of the victim that increase or decrease their chances of being a victim. 2) The responsibility of the crime. These are separate and should be treated separately. It doesn't help anyone to confuse the two. Talking about the first does not mean that you are also assigning responsibility.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195423]You are welcome to disagree with the logic behind those types of the claims. I'm not arguing that they are always right. My point is simply that advising women against certain behavior is not the same thing as saying they are responsible for getting raped.[/QUOTE] Then what is it? [QUOTE=sgman91;52195451]Is a thief only going to steal because something is valuable and easy to take? No, they aren't, but being valuable and easy to take makes a person who is predisposed to theft more likely to steal it.[/QUOTE] So it's their fault if they dress slutty? That's what I'm reading here.

[QUOTE=kariko;52195455]Then what is it? So it's their fault if they dress slutty? That's what I'm reading here.[/QUOTE] No... it's still the fault of the rapist. Like in my hypothetical, it's still not the fault of the man who placed his jewelry outside by itself that it was stolen, but that doesn't mean it's not good to talk about how to make theft less likely in the future.

[QUOTE=kariko;52195455]So it's their fault if they dress slutty? That's what I'm reading here.[/QUOTE] You're kinda just reading what you want to read. sgman91 has explained before that he isn't saying that it is their fault that they got raped because they of how they were dressed - he's saying that advising someone not to wear 'slutty' clothes (for their safety) is not the same as blaming them.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195451]Is a thief only going to steal because something is valuable and easy to take? No, they aren't, but being valuable and easy to take makes a person who is predisposed to theft more likely to steal it. Again, I'm not making the argument at the moment that being scantily clad even makes you more likely to get raped. That's not my point. My point is that there are two issues here: 1) Choices of the victim that increase or decrease their chances of being a victim. 2) The responsibility of the crime. These are separate and should be treated separately. It doesn't help anyone to confuse the two. Talking about the first does not mean that you are also assigning responsibility.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call wearing revealing set of clothes easier for a rapist to rape though, so a I don't really see your logic there. I would argue the statement is claiming that is the victims fault that they got raped. Placing responsibility and blame. To be honest in the watch scenario it's blaming the victim of the theft as well and to be honest that would be logical.

[QUOTE=omarfr;52195483]I wouldn't call wearing revealing set of clothes easier for a rapist to rape though, so a I don't really see your logic there. I would argue the statement is claiming that is the victims fault that they got raped. Placing responsibility and blame. To be honest in the watch scenario it's blaming the victim of the theft as well and to be honest that would be logical.[/QUOTE] Why is it logical to blame the victim in the case of a watch being stolen? Carelessness does not make the crime okay, does it? The statement of telling girls to dress less revealing isn't automatically placing fault on victim. It's nuanced and depends a lot on context.

[QUOTE=Natrox;52195480]You're kinda just reading what you want to read. sgman91 has explained before that he isn't saying that it is their fault that they got raped because they of how they were dressed - he's saying that advising someone not to wear 'slutty' clothes (for their safety) is not the same as blaming them.[/QUOTE] I have to say I don't really see the difference.

[QUOTE=kariko;52195515]I have to say I don't really see the difference.[/QUOTE] Do you not see difference in these?: "It's your own fault, you should dress less like a slut." vs "Wearing revealing clothes may be dangerous in some locations, you should be careful.".

[QUOTE=sgman91;52195423]You are welcome to disagree with the logic behind those types of the claims. I'm not arguing that they are always right. My point is simply that advising women against certain behavior is not the same thing as saying they are responsible for getting raped.[/QUOTE] It's putting the blame on the victim for living their life. Blame the assaulter, not the assaulted.

Sgman1, let me ask you this; do you have any reason to believe that wearing the "right" clothes has any impact whatsoever on the chances of getting raped? I mean like stats, studies whatever. Yes, taking precautions is one thing, such as not walking home alone late at night, but that's mostly just common sense.

[QUOTE=millan;52194811]Maybe as long as it's an old rotten hobo raping a preschool girl. As soon as it's a star athlete or a husband of the abused, you immediately get a fuckton of "Well if they are both drunk it's not really rape." or, "Well, they have been asking for it with these slutty clothes." or just straight up accusations of it being lies whenever there's no bulletproof evidence. Don't tell me these opinions aren't real fucking common these days, everywhere in the west, not just the States. [B]Keep in mind not [I]everyone[/I], nor not even a [I]majority[/I] has to adhere to a culture for it to be [I]present[/I] and worth talking about.[/B][/QUOTE] This happens with every crime. People often forget that. "Oh this really important person just snapped, it can happen to anyone" "Oh this lowly unimportant person is the complete scum of the universe and should be shot" How we view a perpetrator of a crime is very closely related to their social standing. Sexual assault is actually an interesting crime because the polarity of views is insane. You have people who are able to vilify both the perp and victim at the same time. Likewise the social standing of the victim plays a massive role in how the perpetrator is perceived.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52195550]Sgman1, let me ask you this; do you have any reason to believe that wearing the "right" clothes has any impact whatsoever on the chances of getting raped? I mean like stats, studies whatever. Yes, taking precautions is one thing, such as not walking home alone late at night, but that's mostly just common sense.[/QUOTE] Did you miss the part where I said that isn't what I'm arguing? I'm not asking in a condescending way, you just seemed to have missed it. I am NOT making the argument that wearing revealing clothing makes you more likely to be raped. That may or may not be true and I, truth be told, don't know the answer. I'm saying that a person can make that argument without also arguing that the victim is at fault for being raped. You saying that someone shouldn't walk home at night is a similar type of claim. It's giving advice on how to not be a victim, but you're not (correct me if I'm wrong) saying that if a person were to walk home alone at night, and were mugged, that they hold the responsibility for the mugging.