Destiny 2 PC players report bans just for running common tools like discord - Sensationalist Headlines

How do people know that it's these programs? Seems like a guess to me

[QUOTE=Renderman;52820129]The "NOT SO FAST!" should just say "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" because of how silly it is in the first place.[/QUOTE] Reminded me of that one guy in AAI:ME. I also thought the same when I saw that. Having a restriction (temp ban for unsportsmanlike behavior) gives you a "RESTRICTED!" message so it's not like it was a generic "Player is banned/punished" header or something, they chose that message exclusively for permabans.

The industry is in a questionable state when this is allowed to be sold for $100.

[QUOTE=leetnoobify;52820182]The industry is in a questionable state when this is allowed to be sold for $100.[/QUOTE] [URL]https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/25/16544660/destiny-2-pc-no-disc-bungie-activision[/URL] $250, actually. What was Bungie thinking!? :mystery:

[QUOTE=shad0w440;52820022]What's even more baffiling is their reasoning behind not having public chat, basically they didn't want to foster an atmosphere of toxcicity and greifing so the obvious solution was to not have any chat functions.[/QUOTE] That's so lazy. Give people an easy interface to mute people, and have a system that flags somebody to be investigated for a global mute if enough people mute them/report them in a period of time.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52820151]How do people know that it's these programs? Seems like a guess to me[/QUOTE] Anyone disagreeing with this have any actual sources then?

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52820213]Anyone disagreeing with this have any actual sources then?[/QUOTE] Bring up a very valid point.......we don't know. Bungie's like "It shouldn't be handing out bans, just preventing you from launching, or the overlay might not work." On the destiny 2 forum a few players have mentioned having NOTHING running and getting banned, including one who formatted his hard drive before installation. A few people also mentioned using several overlays at once and not getting banned...yet. It's just a random guess, any guess is as good as anything currently. Several people who have not been banned mentioned turning off Xbox GameDVR, while other's have turned it off and still got banned. It's just the first suspect. Pretty much everyone here uses overlays when playing. Hell I'm typing this from the steam overlay playing MGS5. Maybe Bungie's right after all. (about the overlays. I'm not excusing the way they're handling this however.) If people are running on fresh installs with nothing else and getting banned, it might be related to the anti-cheat itself and not overlays or something like that.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52820213]Anyone disagreeing with this have any actual sources then?[/QUOTE] Until Bungie decides to stop being so mysterious and silent about all this shit, a guess is all we have, and it's better than nothing. They say certain software is blocked and doesn't allow the game to run in multiple forum posts, but some people report that same software running just fine when they run the game. Maybe the system they have in place to block programs isn't perfect and it's sometimes letting those programs through, then detects them as cheats and bans the people despite the fact that they're harmless programs and it was a fuck up in the anti-cheat. Nobody knows what the fuck is going on because Bungie isn't telling us shit other than "these common programs aren't allowed!!!" [editline]25th October 2017[/editline] One thing is for sure, thousands of people getting banned the day the game comes out isn't some sudden cheating epidemic. Bungie fucked up somewhere, and they're either refusing to admit it, or working on something and making the mistake of not telling anyone they're working on it.

this is really disappointing, I expected better from Bungie. I was having connection issues that were booting me out of the game, which was odd. I actually ran Shadowplay and used it to record before bed last night, so here's hoping I don't come home from work to find out I'm banned The game is otherwise a solid port, so how they missed this shit I have no idea. I'm just let down, and not happy I bought it on release day

[QUOTE=Toybasher;52820219]Bring up a very valid point.......we don't know. Bungie's like "It shouldn't be handing out bans, just preventing you from launching, or the overlay might not work." On the destiny 2 forum a few players have mentioned having NOTHING running and getting banned, including one who formatted his hard drive before installation. It's just a random guess, any guess is as good as anything currently. Several people who have not been banned mentioned turning off Xbox GameDVR, while other's have turned it off and still got banned. It's just the first suspect. [highlight]Pretty much everyone here uses overlays when playing[/highlight]. Hell I'm typing this from the steam overlay playing MGS5. Maybe Bungie's right after all. (about the overlays. I'm not excusing the way they're handling this however.) If people are running on fresh installs with nothing else and getting banned, it might be related to the anti-cheat itself and not overlays or something like that.[/QUOTE] this is the big thing a lot of people are missing, it's largely confirmation bias. So many people have discord and shadowplay that it's bound to line up in so many peoples' guesswork that it's just assumed to be the culprit. Bungie explained that it shouldn't be banning for those and people are mad that it doesn't line up with the theory and that bungie didn't instantly know the answer. [QUOTE=SuperHoboMan;52820241]Until Bungie decides to stop being so mysterious and silent about all this shit, a guess is all we have, and it's better than nothing.[/QUOTE] They won't (and tbh [I]shouldn't[/I]) give out another statement on the situation until they have solid grounds to say "we know the cause, we're working to fix it, and are reverting all the bans after confirming they were nabbed for this problem". I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being something goofy like a broad wave of false positives on IP bans and has nothing to do with what's installed/running at all [editline]e[/editline] and while their (lack of) system for ban appealing is awful, it'd be useless in this situation because they're already aware its a problem and wasting time on individual support tickets wouldn't do anything

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52819602]Black ops 3 had the same problem iirc, people would connect their controller to their computer then set it aside to play with m+kb[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Crimor;52819644]They're not talking about XIM's, they're talking about turning on a controller in the pc version to get autoaim, then setting it aside to just play normally with mouse and keyboard.[/QUOTE] So I guess I'm the only one that leaves their pad plugged in 24/7/365? [QUOTE=Damjen;52820062]If years of playing games taught me anything it's that text chat was a mistake and the guy who decided it has to be a feature in multiplayer games should be executed for crimes against human decency.[/QUOTE] For those of us who don't use voice chat for whatever reason...I simply don't want it getting in the way of the music I'm usually playing in the background....that man is a hero.

[QUOTE=dai;52820268]this is the big thing a lot of people are missing, it's largely confirmation bias. So many people have discord and shadowplay that it's bound to line up in so many peoples' guesswork that it's just assumed to be the culprit. Bungie explained that it shouldn't be banning for those and people are mad that it doesn't line up with the theory and that bungie didn't instantly know the answer. They won't (and tbh [I]shouldn't[/I]) give out another statement on the situation until they have solid grounds to say "we know the cause, we're working to fix it, and are reverting all the bans after confirming they were nabbed for this problem". I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being something goofy like a broad wave of false positives on IP bans and has nothing to do with what's installed/running at all [editline]e[/editline] and while their (lack of) system for ban appealing is awful, it'd be useless in this situation because they're already aware its a problem and wasting time on individual support tickets wouldn't do anything[/QUOTE] But it could be banning people for overlays: they have to inject themselves between the application and it's calls into the graphics API (or in the case of Shadowplay, they grab the framebuffer directly and do some shit to it). This is going to appear (to any anti-cheat monitoring) like the usual DLL injection used to enable hacks. Apparently, people have been able to use Discord's overlay to load hacktools somehow. So the Destiny anti-hack/cheat system detects [I]some[/I] kind of code modification intefering with it's internal systems. But, instead of warning the user about what is being injected, warning what applications are suspect, refusing to launch, crashing to desktop, or any other array of far more mundane and less infuriating actions they just leapt right to insta-banning the user. g-fucking-g Bungie.

[QUOTE=paindoc;52820304]But it could be banning people for overlays: they have to inject themselves between the application and it's calls into the graphics API (or in the case of Shadowplay, they grab the framebuffer directly and do some shit to it). This is going to appear (to any anti-cheat monitoring) like the usual DLL injection used to enable hacks. Apparently, people have been able to use Discord's overlay to load hacktools somehow. So the Destiny anti-hack/cheat system detects [I]some[/I] kind of code modification intefering with it's internal systems. But, instead of warning the user about what is being injected, warning what applications are suspect, refusing to launch, crashing to desktop, or any other array of far more mundane and less infuriating actions they just leapt right to insta-banning the user. g-fucking-g Bungie.[/QUOTE] You just said it yourself: "it could be". It could be people actually hacking, it could be people with a past ban for Overwatch and it has carried through between games, it could be malicious 4chan hackers have infiltrated Bungie's internal systems and are banning people at random.

Imagine if this is true and they are 100% denying it and wont fix it but in a month we still see hackers like gta5 did that would be impressive tbh

[quote=https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46426] We have seen lots of questions about bans being issued in the PC version of Destiny 2. To provide some information, we would like to share some facts. The following is true: Destiny 2 cannot automatically ban you, only Bungie can ban a player after a manual investigation Yesterday, we banned approximately 400 players on PC Bans were applied to players who were using tools that pose a threat to the shared ecosystem of the game We did not (and will not) issue any bans for the use of overlays or performance tools, including Discord, Xsplit, OBS, RTSS, etc. Information on using third-party applications can be found here: [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Article/46101[/url] We are overturning 4 of the bans that were issued during the PC Beta We are committed to providing an experience that is fun and fair for the millions of players who have joined us in this community.[/quote]

So their investigators can scan someone before they even launch the game, and ban them accordingly on a fresh install before they even install cheats? :lick: That's a shitty response. Edit: I could have worded it better. Basically Bungie is saying all these players were cheaters and manually banned. I really doubt that's true, just how many people got tagged, some mere minutes after starting the game, and how rapidly. I don't like how they're doubling down on it.

That's 100% bullshit. People were being banned [I]less than 10 minutes after release.[/I]

That's so much less exciting than mass false ban waves though

[QUOTE=Toybasher;52820347]So their investigators can scan someone before they even launch the game, and ban them accordingly on a fresh install before they even install cheats? :lick: That's a shitty response.[/QUOTE] If you believe any of that, that is. Do you actually personally know anyone who's been banned like that? Because of course someone who was hacking and got banned would come up with some bullshit like that to justify it.

[QUOTE=dustyjo;52820350]That's 100% bullshit. People were being banned [I]less than 10 minutes after release.[/I][/QUOTE] Or they were bans maintained from the beta.

[video=youtube;H1xDZOZNTsU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=593&v=H1xDZOZNTsU[/video]

[QUOTE=simkas;52820355]If you believe any of that, that is. Do you actually personally know anyone who's been banned like that? Because of course someone who was hacking and got banned would come up with some bullshit like that to justify it.[/QUOTE] I don't know, really. Typically a cheater comes up with a bullshit excuse, i.e. my sister/brother/pet skunk was using the computer and used cheats, unban plz etc. Then they vanish. So many people are making pretty reasonable claims, including a facepuncher in this thread who was banned. They're also contacting support for refunds when the typical cheater simply cuts his losses and leaves once he is caught. Just the past post history's of people on various forums claiming to be unfairly banned don't seem to look like the kind of people who'd cheat. If I had money and a spare comp/hard drive [completely blank slate to rule out other possibilities like viruses or antivirus] I'd try seeing if I can set it off [use discord, steam, MSI, AT THE SAME TIME] so it'd at least prove it can happen on a fresh install with nothing cheaty installed.

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;52820330][/QUOTE] 400 people in 24 hours (which isnt the time span that we are working with) is a banrate of 3.6 minutes per case. These were not manually reviewed with any sense of accuracy.

[QUOTE=ArcticRevrus;52820400]400 people in 24 hours (which isnt the time span that we are working with) is a banrate of 3.6 minutes per case. These were not manually reviewed with any sense of accuracy.[/QUOTE] Because one person handled all cases?

-turns out im awful at math, build me a box fort-

[QUOTE=ArcticRevrus;52820400]400 people in 24 hours (which isnt the time span that we are working with) is a banrate of 3.6 minutes per case. These were not manually reviewed with any sense of accuracy.[/QUOTE] where's this 400 figure from? If that's the extent of the bans I'm gonna laugh at all of the claims of "THOUSANDS" like it's literally every pc player who runs discord [QUOTE=ArcticRevrus;52820435]Assuming a 10 hour window, it would take 40 people to take more than 60 seconds per case. [editline]25th October 2017[/editline] Can you seriously tell me that you think bungie is employing over 40 people to review ban cases?[/QUOTE] can you tell me what you expect flag reviews to entail? also your math is garbage, a [I]single [/I]person could run through 400 claims in an 8 hour shift if each took 1.2 minutes

[QUOTE=dustyjo;52820350]That's 100% bullshit. People were being banned [I]less than 10 minutes after release.[/I][/QUOTE] those are some amazing hackers!

[QUOTE=dai;52820440]where's this 400 figure from? If that's the extent of the bans I'm gonna laugh at all of the claims of "THOUSANDS" like it's literally every pc player who runs discord[/QUOTE] Their official statement here. [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46426[/url] Its very likely this is a bullshit response mind you, but you can only work with the information they give.

1. [B]"Destiny 2 cannot automatically ban you, only Bungie can ban a player after a manual investigation"[/B] What a bullshit, they manually banned me when I was on login screen? (after 1-2 minutes when game was unlocked (released) on battlenet) I haven't even seen the character creation screen... 2. [B]"Bans were applied to players who were using tools that pose a threat to the shared ecosystem of the game"[/B] Of all the apps which could trigger their anti cheat I only have the antivirus, and if it was antivirus why is it not whitelisted? Also as an additional information: You can't get refund if you are banned, which means my ban was false-positive (since I got refund), and yet there is nothing about that in their statement.

Some people proclaim this even gets triggered by Nvidia GeForce Experience being active in the background. You know, the program every Nvidia user's probably going to have, especially if they got Destiny 2 in the graphics card bundle deal they're doing.