[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52769604]Because more than a few vegans take pleasure in being holier-than-thou and demonizing others for their choice in diet, which shouldn't matter as long as it's a balanced one.[/QUOTE]
I have never met an 'obnoxious vegan' irl and only ever seen to hear about them from people sharing their fringe pages on FB to trash on it.
On the other hand my gf has been vegetarian for 12 years or so and as soon as people find out theres always one or two people out of every group who thinks it's funny to wave meat in her face or make insensitive comments about it.
I don't really see why it seems like there's a double standard where it's socially acceptable to be horrible to people for not eating meat yet as soon as they say anything about the subject they are considered obnoxious and preachy.
[QUOTE=Riller;52768686]Well looks like it's heart attack for me, then.[/QUOTE]
As per usual, they leave out the most important part.
About 70 percent of your caloric intake, should be fat. The problem is that is you consume a bunch of carbohydrates, your body processes it all very differently.
Under normal functionality, you can eat a great deal of fat without consequence because your body can easily discard it.
Your entire body is specialized to make you an exceptional predator. Despite common belief, even without tech beyond pointy sticks, we are among the best predators on the planet. Your digestive system reflects this and is built to process large amounts of fat.
Low carb intake has been shown to slow cancer growth, push diabetes (2) so far into remission that monitoring blood glucose is no longer necessary, and improve a multitude of other issues. Ever wonder how ancient people could commonly go for days without eating? This makes your appetite work differently. More accurately, it actually let's you access your appetite. Currently most people don't feel hungry, they feel their addiction for carbohydrates pull at them. Carbs are, very literally, a chemical addiction.
[QUOTE=Riller;52768686]Well looks like it's heart attack for me, then.[/QUOTE]
Funny thing is, that it is the sugar which damages the arteries. So if you make your blood pipes all banged up and rough, fat has an easy time getting stuck inside, leading to a blockage.
If you instead go low cal and high fat, your body starts to change from a carbohydrate fueled organism to a fat burning organism. Burning fat gives you a much more stable energy level throughout the whole day. Remember sugar highs? This doesn't happen with a consumption based purely on fat. This leads to a much more stable emotional state.
[QUOTE=Kylel999;52769676]Electric cars are more trouble than they're worth, I never really understand what strives people to do it apart from not wanting to globally run out of oil or actually getting sick from pollution. It's silly to say it's for economic reasons because you can have just as much an economical commute with diesel in it too[/QUOTE]
There's a big difference between using electric cars and avoiding eating what's naturally made for your body. Electric cars are difficult because of the fact that either batteries don't last long enough or that there aren't enough charging stations. Veganism is just a life choice.
[editline]11th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Number-41;52769170]I don't see how that's more 'trouble than it's worth'...[/QUOTE]
You have obviously either never tried veganism or have followed a very strict plan. Because if you're going to do veganism in a way that isn't killing yourself, you're going to have to follow a very strict plan. I have a very meticulous friend who tried veganism, and almost caused herself many health issues by not realising the amount of detail you have to take into everything you consume and how balanced everything has to be. To me, that's "more trouble than it's worth".
[QUOTE=GunFox;52770234]post[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;52770296]post[/QUOTE]
Know of any good resources to learn more about all this?
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52770609]Know of any good resources to learn more about all this?[/QUOTE]
[url]https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C27&q=low+carbohydrate+diet&btnG=&oq=low+carb[/url]
There is a great deal of interest in its ability to control insulin in folks with type 2 diabetes.
I still have university library credentials. If I think about it later, I'll log in and look for a meta analysis.
[QUOTE=Cushie;52769926]I have never met an 'obnoxious vegan' irl and only ever seen to hear about them from people sharing their fringe pages on FB to trash on it.
On the other hand my gf has been vegetarian for 12 years or so and as soon as people find out theres always one or two people out of every group who thinks it's funny to wave meat in her face or make insensitive comments about it.
I don't really see why it seems like there's a double standard where it's socially acceptable to be horrible to people for not eating meat yet as soon as they say anything about the subject they are considered obnoxious and preachy.[/QUOTE]
this, jc this.
[QUOTE=GunFox;52770234]As per usual, they leave out the most important part.
About 70 percent of your caloric intake, should be fat. The problem is that is you consume a bunch of carbohydrates, your body processes it all very differently.
Under normal functionality, you can eat a great deal of fat without consequence because your body can easily discard it.
Your entire body is specialized to make you an exceptional predator. Despite common belief, even without tech beyond pointy sticks, we are among the best predators on the planet. Your digestive system reflects this and is built to process large amounts of fat.
Low carb intake has been shown to slow cancer growth, push diabetes (2) so far into remission that monitoring blood glucose is no longer necessary, and improve a multitude of other issues. Ever wonder how ancient people could commonly go for days without eating? This makes your appetite work differently. More accurately, it actually let's you access your appetite. Currently most people don't feel hungry, they feel their addiction for carbohydrates pull at them. Carbs are, very literally, a chemical addiction.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GunFox;52770646][url]https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C27&q=low+carbohydrate+diet&btnG=&oq=low+carb[/url]
There is a great deal of interest in its ability to control insulin in folks with type 2 diabetes.
I still have university library credentials. If I think about it later, I'll log in and look for a meta analysis.[/QUOTE]
My father was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes at 60 due to too much beer and chocolate (He was morbidly obese but really didn't look it aside from the beer belly), and was told he wouldn't last another 10 years if he didn't make some changes. He struggled a lot with various diabetes medications because he NEEDED to lose weight but he found certain meds were making it extremely hard to lose it among other side effects.
Few years ago him and my stepmum did some research and went carbless and after a year he went from being 160kg to weighing less than me (70-80kg), and he also no longer needs to take any medication to manage his diabetes.
Anecdotally again someone I know whose sister was type 2 diabetic went carbless for a long time and I don't know if this is just her misunderstanding but she said they were celebrating because the doctors had declared her 'free' of diabetes.
I'm basically vegetarian but its less that it's upsetting to me and more that I know myself that its both ethically and economically wrong, but I find the less I eat meat and the more I experiment and try lots of other weird and wonderful things the more the idea of meat grosses me out. Still have a lot of fat in our diet from things like eggs, cheese, nuts, milk though.
Fats and sugars are good for you I'm moderation and aren't going to kill you. Too much of anything and not enough of something is bad
You can eat vegan but if all you eat is french fries and white rice, your health is still going to deteriorate.
Your body needs complete proteins, and you need to do even [I]more[/I] research than usual to make sure you really cover all your bases. Our bodies were designed to consume animal-based nutrition, and its ok to make the transition to veganism, but you have to eat a lot of different foods to make sure you get what you need.
[QUOTE=aznz888;52770832]Our bodies were designed to consume animal-based nutrition, and its ok to make the transition to veganism, but you have to eat a lot of different foods to make sure you get what you need.[/QUOTE]
This is the main point I was trying to make, if that wasn't clear. I've had friends who tried veganism, thinking it was just a simple change of no meat, but they didn't realise what serious effects that would have on their body. If you're going to do veganism, then you have to do a lot of research and reading into what you need to eat. When I say it's "more trouble than it's worth", you have to be really in the right mindset to do it. It's not just something you can wake up and say "hey I'm going to be vegan today" like it's a simple decision.
Eating a shit ton of fast digesting starch and sugar is bad for you no matter what color it is or where it came from.
if you go vegan i recommend a daily intake of legumes with quinoa. That should do it for the most part. And take the b12 pill every day son.
Also, protein based cereals like oatmeal.
And put some fruit on it.
Oh, and one carrot a day.
There? i think thats it
[QUOTE=aznz888;52770832]You can eat vegan but if all you eat is french fries and white rice, your health is still going to deteriorate.
Your body needs complete proteins, and you need to do even [I]more[/I] research than usual to make sure you really cover all your bases. Our bodies were designed to consume animal-based nutrition, and its ok to make the transition to veganism, but you have to eat a lot of different foods to make sure you get what you need.[/QUOTE]
Good thing I only eat pizza. Good ol vegetables
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52769112][video=youtube;5S6-v37nOtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6-v37nOtY[/video][/QUOTE]
This video would almost be halfway decent if it wasn't riding the paleorganic memewaggon.
Yes, highly processed foods tend to be bad for you. None of it has anything specifically to do with what was mentioned in this video. Note how he had zero sources for that, despite having plenty for the other points.
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52770538]
You have obviously either never tried veganism or have followed a very strict plan. Because if you're going to do veganism in a way that isn't killing yourself, you're going to have to follow a very strict plan. I have a very meticulous friend who tried veganism, and almost caused herself many health issues by not realising the amount of detail you have to take into everything you consume and how balanced everything has to be. To me, that's "more trouble than it's worth".[/QUOTE]
That's just anecdotic evidence and doesn't prove anything. I as well have a 'close friend' who is vegan and all she does is take some B12 supplement and an increased amount of protein rich nuts and that's it. You don't need to carefully balance shit, just try to eat many different things. If all you do is eat rice with ketchup, well yeah no shit you are getting health problems.
I honestly don't see the point in this entire discussion if everyone pulls stuff out of their ass. Or is everyone here a dietitian?
[QUOTE=GunFox;52770234]As per usual, they leave out the most important part.
About 70 percent of your caloric intake, should be fat. [/QUOTE]
Source?
[QUOTE=Number-41;52772232]That's just anecdotic evidence and doesn't prove anything. I as well have a 'close friend' who is vegan and all she does is take some B12 supplement and that's it. You don't need to carefully balance shit, just try to eat many different things. If all you do is eat rice with ketchup, well yeah no shit you are getting health problems.
I honestly don't see the point in this entire discussion if everyone pulls stuff out of their ass. Or is everyone here a dietitian?[/QUOTE]
I highly doubt that's all she does, you don't just take 1 supplement and then you just stop eating meat. That or she has a particular type of body which doesn't require much in the way of the supplements. Either way, the majority of vegans have to do a lot more than that. I'm not pulling stuff out my ass, and I find that very condescending
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52772238]I highly doubt that's all she does, you don't just take 1 supplement and then you just stop eating meat. That or she has a particular type of body which doesn't require much in the way of the supplements. Either way, the majority of vegans have to do a lot more than that. I'm not pulling stuff out my ass, and I find that very condescending[/QUOTE]
Do you see the problem of having a discussion where both parties use anecdotal evidence? Nothing can be verified so we just keep yelling at each other.
Also, even if it means having to take some all-in-one supplement pill from time to time, that does not seem like 'more trouble than it's worth'. Not when at the same time you can reduce your carbon footprint (necessary) and prevent animal suffering (not necessary but a nice moral extra).
There's also plenty (I would say, a vastly larger amount) of people who get health problems from normal diets (see, rising obesity and risk of CHD in nearly all 1st world countries), and yet you do not criticise them? It's just veganism that is bad? Maybe the issue is indeed that people are uninformed about what they eat, regardless the type of diet. The repercussions of being not informed might be a lot harsher for vegans, I give you that, but that's mostly because they are very limited in what they can eat in the first place. It's a lot easier to get all the essential nutrients if you eat prepared crap.
[QUOTE=Cushie;52769926]I have never met an 'obnoxious vegan' irl and only ever seen to hear about them from people sharing their fringe pages on FB to trash on it.
I don't really see why it seems like there's a double standard where it's socially acceptable to be horrible to people for not eating meat yet as soon as they say anything about the subject they are considered obnoxious and preachy. [/QUOTE]
You're lucky. I live with one, my sister. And what you're describing is also what people do when they find out you're afraid of spiders, or don't drink alcohol, or other things.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;52771511]This video would almost be halfway decent if it wasn't riding the paleorganic memewaggon.
Yes, highly processed foods tend to be bad for you. None of it has anything specifically to do with what was mentioned in this video. Note how he had zero sources for that, despite having plenty for the other points.[/QUOTE]
As opposed to videos who ride the vegan memewaggon? I don't even care about pushing any diet. That's a moot point. The whole point is to show that the Lipid Hypothesis is bunk. But if you want a better source, [URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/"]here it is.[/URL]
[QUOTE]The debate over the cholesterol hypothesis and statins has raged for decades. Some may point to the recent decline in cardiovascular deaths in the United States as proof of statin effectiveness, but this view fails to incorporate the impact of smoking cessation, lifestyle changes, and dramatic improvements in heart attack survival rates due to timely reperfusion and the availability of external and implantable defibrillators. Others may argue that statins are started too late in life to be effective (the horse may already be out of the barn) and reference Mendelian randomization studies which show that rare individuals with genetically low cholesterol levels have a much lower incidence of CHD[39]. However, this concept should not be extrapolated to the 99.99% of us who lack these genes and also fails to explain how the Mediterranean diet reduces mortality within months of initiation[2-4]. In 1996 Nobel laureates Brown and Goldstein anticipated the eradication of coronary disease in their Science editorial, “Exploitation of recent breakthroughs - proof of the cholesterol hypothesis, discovery of effective drugs, and better definition of genetic susceptibility factors - may well end coronary disease as a major public health problem early in the next century”[40]. History has proven otherwise, and the global prevalence of CHD, despite worldwide statin usage and cholesterol lowering campaigns, has reached pandemic proportions. Coronary heart disease is an extremely complex malady and the expectation that it could be prevented or eliminated by simply reducing cholesterol appears unfounded. After twenty years we should concede the anomalies of the cholesterol hypothesis and refocus our efforts on the proven benefits of a healthy lifestyle incorporating a Mediterranean diet to prevent CHD[2-4,41,42].[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52772238]I highly doubt that's all she does, you don't just take 1 supplement and then you just stop eating meat. That or she has a particular type of body which doesn't require much in the way of the supplements. Either way, the majority of vegans have to do a lot more than that. I'm not pulling stuff out my ass, and I find that very condescending[/QUOTE]
Hint: Livestock animals get a shitload of supplements as well. Especially B12.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52770609]Know of any good resources to learn more about all this?[/QUOTE]
Here, have some resources in moving picture form
[video=youtube;dBnniua6-oM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM[/video]
[QUOTE=Number-41;52772232]That's just anecdotic evidence and doesn't prove anything. I as well have a 'close friend' who is vegan and all she does is take some B12 supplement and an increased amount of protein rich nuts and that's it. You don't need to carefully balance shit, just try to eat many different things. If all you do is eat rice with ketchup, well yeah no shit you are getting health problems.
I honestly don't see the point in this entire discussion if everyone pulls stuff out of their ass. Or is everyone here a dietitian?
Source?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html?foxtrotcallback=true[/url]
That is one article, but there are plenty. 70 percent fat and low carbs helps to push your body into ketosis, which in turn is responsible for many of the benefits. That high fat content keeps your body convinced that life is good and storing additional fat is probably not necessary. People on ketogenic diet can actually stall in weight loss if they consume too little fat.
The 1970's book from Dr. Atkins was pretty much on the money about most of it. The guy did his research.
[QUOTE=gokiyono;52772400]You're lucky. I live with one, my sister. And what you're describing is also what people do when they find out you're afraid of spiders, or don't drink alcohol, or other things.[/QUOTE]
To me it's more akin to if you found out someone was say a Muslim so you decided it would be a funny joke to throw a piece of bacon onto them when in actual fact they would most likely be mortified and extremely upset because you are treating something they most likely hold dear and take very seriously as a sick joke.
It's not really the same as teasing someone about the fact that they are a bit scared of spiders (Which I wouldn't do anyway if someone was severely scared because again thats not nice).
just as an example, this shit gets posted daily on facebook vegan groups
[img]https://i.snag.gy/NdT2Jp.jpg[/img]
there are trolls in all sides and its in no way an excuse to continue a mocking or stupid behavior.
[QUOTE=GunFox;52773270][url]http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html?foxtrotcallback=true[/url]
That is one article, but there are plenty. 70 percent fat and low carbs helps to push your body into ketosis, which in turn is responsible for many of the benefits. That high fat content keeps your body convinced that life is good and storing additional fat is probably not necessary. People on ketogenic diet can actually stall in weight loss if they consume too little fat.
The 1970's book from Dr. Atkins was pretty much on the money about most of it. The guy did his research.[/QUOTE]
Ketos diets are not for everyone, especially athletes, weightlifters, sprinters, etc, your body would be a complete shit show with 70% of your calories coming from fat.
[QUOTE=Cushie;52769926]I have never met an 'obnoxious vegan' irl and only ever seen to hear about them from people sharing their fringe pages on FB to trash on it.
On the other hand my gf has been vegetarian for 12 years or so and as soon as people find out theres always one or two people out of every group who thinks it's funny to wave meat in her face or make insensitive comments about it.
I don't really see why it seems like there's a double standard where it's socially acceptable to be horrible to people for not eating meat yet as soon as they say anything about the subject they are considered obnoxious and preachy.[/QUOTE]
When I was active on couchsurfing, I had the unfortunate event of hosting an extreme one. I'm quite open to them, but I have no issues with em. I don't make fun/care about your diet, likewise, I expect the same mutual respect.
She's a raw vegan, but even that is extreme, she feeds on vegetables without washing, doesn't use oil at all in her cooking, and feeds her dog on a vegan diet, the irony is that she's a food nutritionist.
The worst part was when she walked in on me butchering a turkey for xmas, and she gave me the most disgusted look.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;52774848]Ketos diets are not for everyone, especially athletes, weightlifters, sprinters, etc, your body would be a complete shit show with 70% of your calories coming from fat.[/QUOTE]
Nope, works just fine.
People carb load because carbs burn fast and you burn fat slow.
Except that isn't actually true with ketosis. You can burn fat at the rate you need it. Your body still has glycogen stores, which it can use to makeup the rate difference.
Athletes are slowly switching to low carb because, at worst, you perform about the same and don't have to carb load like a motherfucker. At best, performance can increase fairly significantly.
[url]http://26qdo01xr52q3yjzen3dv30y.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Low-carbohydrate-diets-for-athletes_What-evidence_Noakes-Phinney-Volek-2014.pdf[/url]
Some people are burning fat at over 1.5 grams per minute which, alone, is enough to sustain someone doing a fairly intense workout. Meanwhile on top of that, you still have glycogen stores for bursts of energy. Which, surprise, is the point of glycogen stores. They aren't intended as a primary fuel source.
I'm afraid I love pasta too much to ever go low carb
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52769604]Because more than a few vegans take pleasure in being holier-than-thou and demonizing others for their choice in diet, which shouldn't matter as long as it's a balanced one.[/QUOTE]
This feels like such a myth at this stage. I've never once had a real person jerk off about being vegan yet I get constant retards on facebook spamming, "haha how do you know someone's a vegan? DON'T WORRY THEY'LL TELL YOU!"
Literally doesn't happen.
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