American Man Gives Nazi Salute in Germany, Gets Punched in the Face - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568727]You try to get there by killing millions of people and then you don't get there because it's impossible.[/QUOTE] what are you even saying, back when I was a communist we advocated transition to socialism through elections, how is that killing millions of people

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568703]It absolutely is the case. Fuck both sides, and fuck the leftists for using the events in Charlottesville to further their reprehensible agenda[/QUOTE]what is this "reprehensible leftist agenda"?

[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;52568726]Oh yes. The reprehensible agenda of wanting equal rights and eradicating racial and sexual discrimination. Those damned leftists. They're just as bad as people who want to systematically kill and enslave people. How could I forget.[/QUOTE] The reprehensible agenda of communism and socialism, which are just as bad as nazism is. In theory they're all about equality, sharing and friendship, but in practice they're just as bad. Open a history book, or look at countries like Venezuela and North Korea. [QUOTE=eirexe;52568741]what are you even saying, back when I was a communist we advocated transition to socialism through elections, how is that killing millions of people[/QUOTE] Democratically elected does not mean peaceful. Hitler was democratically elected, Maduro and Chavez were democratically elected.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568758]The reprehensible agenda of communism and socialism, which are just as bad as nazism is. In theory they're all about equality, sharing and friendship, but in practice they're just as bad. Open a history book, or look at countries like Venezuela and North Korea.[/QUOTE] Nazism is 'all about equality, sharing and friendship'? I think you're the one who needs to open a book, buddy. Dude, try harder with the shitposting, this is lazy.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568758] Democratically elected does not mean peaceful. Hitler was democratically elected, Maduro and Chavez were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] Hitler was appointed to become Chancellor, he lost the sole election he ran in.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52568762]Nazism is 'all about equality, sharing and friendship'? I think you're the one who needs to open a book, buddy. Dude, try harder with the shitposting, this is lazy.[/QUOTE] Can you read?

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568758]The reprehensible agenda of communism and socialism, which are just as bad as nazism is. In theory they're all about equality, sharing and friendship, but in practice they're just as bad. Open a history book, or look at countries like Venezuela and North Korea. Democratically elected does not mean peaceful. Hitler was democratically elected, Maduro and Chavez were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] Except nobody is trying to fucking compare this to Socialism or communism. This is about comparing human empathy and equality to fucking racism and human Genocide.

[QUOTE=Uber22;52568771]Except nobody is trying to fucking compare this to Socialism or communism. This is about comparing human empathy and equality to fucking racism and human Genocide.[/QUOTE] We're talking about horseshoe theory and how the far left and the far right are just as bad as each other. I don't know what you are talking about, I am not claiming that all people who believe in social justice are just as bad as nazis

[quote]We're talking about horseshoe theory and how the far left and the far right are just as bad as each other.[/quote] They aren't though. In any way. To make them 'as bad as each other' you're talking exclusively about extremists, which are beyond even 'far left and far right'. They are people with violent agendas, irrespective of where they land on the extremely slanted political gradient.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568703]It absolutely is the case. Fuck both sides, and fuck the leftists for using the events in Charlottesville to further their reprehensible agenda[/QUOTE] Other than that fake trump selfie, I haven't seen anything that was out of line. Though to be fair, it's hard to be overzealous about an event where someone intentionally drove a car into a crowd.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568758]The reprehensible agenda of communism and socialism, which are just as bad as nazism is. In theory they're all about equality, sharing and friendship, but in practice they're just as bad. Open a history book, or look at countries like Venezuela and North Korea. Democratically elected does not mean peaceful. Hitler was democratically elected, Maduro and Chavez were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] Hitler was appointe chancellor, but being a chancellor didn't mean you were the head of state, what hitler did was accumulate power to make the chancellor be the head of state after the president died, and thanks to the enable act he was able to pass any law he wanted. [editline]13th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568781]We're talking about horseshoe theory and how the far left and the far right are just as bad as each other. I don't know what you are talking about, I am not claiming that all people who believe in social justice are just as bad as nazis[/QUOTE] As I said, most academics on the left and the right would disagree with the horseshoe theory being a real thing.

[QUOTE=eirexe;52568786]As I said, most academics on the left and the right would disagree with the horseshoe theory being a real thing.[/QUOTE] Well no shit, they are on the left and the right after all

"Only I know the truth about how close the parties are to their adjacent parties, everyone else has a political agenda unlike myself and so can't be trusted!" Are you for real?

I really don't want to get mixed up in this mess again, but I think [I]a lot[/I] of users here need to get your labels straightened out. It would be really great if there was one of these threads that didn't devolve into a shouting match because of overly broad statements.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568758]The reprehensible agenda of communism and socialism, which are just as bad as nazism is. In theory they're all about equality, sharing and friendship, but in practice they're just as bad. Open a history book, or look at countries like Venezuela and North Korea. Democratically elected does not mean peaceful. Hitler was democratically elected, Maduro and Chavez were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] oh there it is, leftist ideology, socialism and communism are horrible oppressive ideologies because look at Venezuela and north korea. I could try to explain to you how, Venezuela, and North Korea are authoritarian regimes more similar to fascism and nazism, but I have a feeling you've been told that literally a hundreds of times. You're delusional, if you think Maduro was democratically elected. I guess scandinavia is just as bad as nazi germany/North Korea or Venezuela as well right? I mean we practice democratic [b]SOCIALISM[/b] here.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568758]The reprehensible agenda of communism and socialism, which are just as bad as nazism is. In theory they're all about equality, sharing and friendship, but in practice they're just as bad. Open a history book, or look at countries like Venezuela and North Korea. Democratically elected does not mean peaceful. Hitler was democratically elected, Maduro and Chavez were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] Venezuela isn't communist or socialist, despite Maduro's claims to be a democratic socialist. He's falsified an entire election (very democratic!) and he's privatized and taken ownership over Venezuela's oil industry. I don't know about you, but it's hard to claim you're trying to go after collective ownership of the means of production when you've privatized the entire industry, looted the profits for the state, and used the funds to abuse the people of your state. As for your Hitler example, he was democratically elected, yes, but he used political violence to influence the elections in his favor and subverted the democratic system with the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung"]Sturmabteilung[/URL], harassing political opponents, sabotaging their campaigns, and terrorizing/intimidating citizens from exercising their right to vote. This is like saying Putin or Maduro were democratically elected, when they both falsify results and engage in similar tactics of political violence, intimidation, and physical abuse of political opponents. That isn't peaceful. I agree with you that communism is impossible (so long as resource scarcity exists, aka forever). I consider myself a "leftist," but I'm not socialist, and I'm not communist. I abhor totalitarianism of any kind, left or right. I won't try to argue with you that Maduro or Kim aren't horrible people, because they are. They gain power and abuse it, just as Hitler and Mussolini and every dictator in history has done. But I really can't stand this argument that "both are just as bad." These nazis thinks that their political opposition wants "white genocide" through outbreeding and refugees and immigration, when that's not even the intent of those policies. How do the nazis react? Calling for actual [I]systematic[/I] genocide of Jews, Muslims, blacks, liberals, communists, anyone they oppose. There's no comparison. I want a white person to be able to marry a black person, and I want a Jewish person to have the right to become wealthy (the same as any other group), and I want a Muslim person to have the right to safely go to a mosque and worship as they please, and I want a Christian person to have the right to pray whenever they please. Nazis want to kill anyone who isn't white. They're not the same, they're not comparable.

-snip-

[QUOTE=Xavith;52568802]oh there it is, leftist ideology, socialism and communism are horrible oppressive ideologies because look at Venezuela and north korea. I could try to explain to you how, Venezuela, and North Korea are authoritarian regimes more similar to fascism and nazism, but I have a feeling you've been told that literally a hundreds of times. You're delusional, if you think Maduro was democratically elected. I guess scandinavia is just as bad as nazi germany/North Korea or Venezuela as well right? I mean we practice democratic [b]SOCIALISM[/b] here.[/QUOTE] You practice social democracy, not socialism. Scandinavia is still capitalist, for them to be socialist the means of production would have to be in the hands of the workers.

Maduro and previous "Socialist" dictators and authoritarians use Socialism only by name. They are far from being "Socialist..."

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568792]Well no shit, they are on the left and the right after all[/QUOTE] Well yeah, you either are or aren't on the left, the left believe that social hierarchy can be smoothed out in varying degrees and the right believes it can't and that it's sometimes desirable.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568758]The reprehensible agenda of communism and socialism, which are just as bad as nazism is. In theory they're all about equality, sharing and friendship, but in practice they're just as bad. Open a history book, or look at countries like Venezuela and North Korea. Democratically elected does not mean peaceful. Hitler was democratically elected, Maduro and Chavez were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] People really need to stop thinking Venezuela is some socialist run country, Chavez installed an authoritarian regime and Maduro is turning it into a full-fledged dictatorship, it's nothing to do with socialism, the same way North Korea isn't actually a democratic republic party.

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;52568814]People really need to stop thinking Venezuela is some socialist run country, Chavez installed an authoritarian regime and Maduro is turning it into a full-fledged dictatorship, it's nothing to do with socialism, the same way North Korea isn't actually a democratic republic party.[/QUOTE] Venezuela does have some traits of a socialist state, with socialized education and healthcare... but that would make Finland a socialist country too.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568792]Well no shit, they are on the left and the right after all[/QUOTE] Horseshoe theory is a massive, massive oversimplification of a very complex set of political values, tactics, governing styles, government organization, leadership, economics, religion, identity - the only thing it explains is that both the right-wing and the left-wing can be authoritarian. Communism is not the opposite of fascism or nazism. Communism is a type of economic organization, generally opposed to capitalism. Fascism is a [I]form of government[/I], communism is not. That said, they are both political ideologies. You can tell the difference by slapping "anarcho" on the front of anything. Anarcho-capitalism? Economic system of private ownership with no government. Anarcho-communism? Economic system of collective ownership with no government. Anarcho-fascism? A highly centralized, corporate-sponsored government... with no government? It's self-contradictory. There is anarcho-communism and there is totalitarian/authoritarian communism (communist party rule). There is anarcho-capitalism and there is totalitarian/authoritarian capitalism (fascism). This isn't a horseshoe, it's a multi-dimensional grid of like 400 different factors that defines how a government is run. The horseshoe is a nice introduction to how authoritarianism is not exclusive to the right, but it's an intentional oversimplification, and assuming that it must always be true means you're going to miss the hundreds of other factors that actually determine this shit in the real world.

Dividing everything into just "left" and "right" has never really been very accurate.

[QUOTE=eirexe;52568813]Well yeah, you either are or aren't on the left, the left believe that social hierarchy can be smoothed out in varying degrees and the right believes it can't and that it's sometimes desirable.[/QUOTE] You phrased that in a very loaded way. Of course I believe social hierarchy can be smoothed out to a "varying degree", but what degree? [QUOTE=Gwoodman;52568814]People really need to stop thinking Venezuela is some socialist run country, Chavez installed an authoritarian regime and Maduro is turning it into a full-fledged dictatorship, it's nothing to do with socialism, the same way North Korea isn't actually a democratic republic party.[/QUOTE] The socialists tend to do that, historically.

Did you guys notice that [I]every time[/I] when there's a debate about reprimands of the far right, some posters feel the need to make it into a debate about how the left isn't any better at all and it's wrong that it's not getting reprimanded as well, or instead? :thinking: It's literally like preschool kids throwing a fit and responding to critique with "well, but that other guy, he's [B]no better than me, see?[/B]".

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568859]You phrased that in a very loaded way. Of course I believe social hierarchy can be smoothed out to a "varying degree", but what degree? The socialists tend to do that, historically.[/QUOTE] But we just told you those cases you talked about aren't socialist, so where do you see the trend?

[QUOTE] I don't know about you, but it's hard to claim you're trying to go after collective ownership of the means of production when you've privatized the entire industry, looted the profits for the state, and used the funds to abuse the people of your state.[/QUOTE] What? Privatized? Venezuela has state control of almost everything by this point. And they basically made the food production run into the ground by importing food via the state and then selling it at a lower price than which the local producers can afford to sell, making them lose income.

Try to stay on topic. I know socialism and communism are tangentially related but it doesn't have a whole lot to do with the OP.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52568859]The socialists tend to do that, historically.[/QUOTE] I hope I'm misunderstanding and you're not actually telling me the Kim regime is the result of socialism.