Judge rules environmental survey for Dakota pipeline was inadequate, operations may come to a halt

[FuckOffEuroTrash]

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52374926]no it wasn't. until the end of the 19th century the world ran on steam, muscle, wind, and water. railways and massive ships moved the bulk of goods around (and both still carry massive quantities of goods around the world today).[/quote]
Do you think that coal powered boats and trains are still a thing? Those massive freighters and mile long trains all run on diesel fuel. The only time you see a steam boat in the modern world is at museums and and novelty rides.

Even to begin with, a steam engine runs off coal, which is as much a fossil fuel as oil is. And a steam engine never pushed a freighter carrying thousands of tons of cargo from Alaska to Japan in one haul.

Not to mention that the railroads didn't work like the highways and interstate systems do. This is why logistics were laughably bad. They were horribly inefficient.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52374926]
the transition from horses and carts to steam locomotives and ships was a bigger leap than the transition from steam engines to oil-fuelled ones, so you're pretty wrong on that count. [/quote]

I've re-read this and my post 5 times and I have no clue what you're talking about here because it doesn't have any relation to anything I've said.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52374926]
i didn't say to do a swap immediately, i said to put a ban on the construction of new pipelines and stop establishing new oil drilling sites, something that is both possible and will not harm us[/QUOTE]

It wouldn't harm anyone, not even the oil industry. They would still be pumping millions of barrels every year for decades to come.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Ridge;52372717]Whether you like to admit it or not, the world runs on oil. The computer you're typing this on is created with petroleum products and likely powered by a power station burning oil as well.[/QUOTE]

so "Thats the way it is" and we should just accept it is where you're going with this

lmao how dumb can this ideology of "Fuck it" get

[Sobotnik]

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52374982]Those massive freighters and mile long trains all run on diesel fuel.[/quote]

minus those which run off electricity (and the handful of commercial nuclear cargo ships that are around). i really don't see what the problem is with making trains run off electricity and bringing back ships like windjammers or promoting nuclear-powered cargo ships.

[quote]Even to begin with, a steam engine runs off coal, which is as much a fossil fuel as oil is. And a steam engine never pushed a freighter carrying thousands of tons of cargo from Alaska to Japan in one haul.[/quote]

steam powered engines have routinely pushed freighters carrying thousands of tons of cargo over those distances in the 19th and 20th centuries so this is bollocks

[quote]Not to mention that the railroads didn't work like the highways and interstate systems do. This is why logistics were laughably bad. [b]They were horribly inefficient.[/b]

I've re-read this and my post 5 times and I have no clue what you're talking about here because it doesn't have any relation to anything I've said.[/quote]

it's that your point about "transportation before oil being horrible" and "inefficient" is complete bullshit. millions of tons of steel and people and cotton and gold were moving around on a network of iron rails and steam ships with costs racketing downwards before the first car even trundled out of Daimlers workshop. the leap from horses and sailing ships to steam-powered ones was much bigger than the latter transition to oil. the former involved the complete reinvention of virtually the entire transportation system of the world whereas oil simply changed the fuel source in use.

[quote]It wouldn't harm anyone, not even the oil industry. They would still be pumping millions of barrels every year for decades to come.[/QUOTE]

then you agree there is no harm from blocking this pipeline in addition to a ban on new oil wells then? that is much closer to what i'm wanting to see happen than this strawman of "ban oil now, go tesla now"