Model Arvida Byström gets rape threats after an advert featured her hairy legs - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Loth;52758420]That's a lie perpetrated by anti-feminist edgelords. Feminism is literally about equality of genders. Do some research.[/QUOTE] You're pretending feminism is a monolithic group. It's not. [QUOTE=Kommodore;52758412]one in five women in the US are victims of rape or attempted rape is that high enough to meet your arbitrary threshold[/QUOTE] Citation needed. It's also not evidence of a rape culture. It would only take a few percent of the population to achieve that, even less if the claims of high non-reporting are true because the perpetrators probably get away with it a lot more. [QUOTE=Loth;52758442]The existance of a rape culture is undeniable, girls get raped at least 10 times as often as guys do, in every country. That difference isn't entirely caused by testosterone. And it's extremely important to understand the social causes of that to fight rape and keep the discussion open. And some idiots on youtube saying "feminism ruins society" because buzzfeed made a shitty video are completely missing the point and being dishonest.[/QUOTE] That's not evidence of rape culture either. That's simply a ratio that doesn't say anything about the number of people who approve of rape or the number of victims. [editline]8th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod4ever;52758421] Rape culture [B]is[/B] mothers telling their daughters, with a straight face: not to wear revealing clothes; don't walk down dark alleyways; and never travel alone at night. And all the while, they don't even once stop to think about the ramifications of the world they're describing, by doing so. [/QUOTE] Is it though? We tell people to lock their cars and homes to prevent theft, is that a "theft culture"? While it's unfortunate we have to take precautions, it should not be considered wrong to take precautions and the same time it should not diminish the seriousness of the crime committed if someone chooses not take precautions.

[QUOTE]You're pretending feminism is a monolithic group. It's not[/QUOTE] Because saying "feminists don't want equality" isn't treating them as a monolitic group? Someone did it earlier in the thread while lying about the mouvement, why didn't you object to him? Hold everyone to the same scrutiny wether or not they agree with your biaises. Saying the entirety of feminism is against equality of sexes is way more wrong than saying feminism as a mouvement wants equality. Also "the number of people who approve of rape" is not what rape culture is and nobody ever said that. Youre strawmanning the arguments of feminism, and that kinda tells you don't actually listen to what feminists say, but what people who hate feminists say about them.

[QUOTE=Loth;52758534] Also "the number of people who approve of rape" is not what rape culture is and nobody ever said that.[/QUOTE] That's what the name implies, though. We should probably find a better name for the social phenomenon causing the tendencies of sexual harassment and violence against women to be trivialized. One that isn't as antagonizing and thereby derailing the discussion before it has even begun.

[QUOTE=coldroll5;52758363]We don't we need equality feminism isn't about equality.[/QUOTE] I'd love to hear your reasoning why. Even a short and simple one will do.

[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;52758421]So, in my humble opinion: Rape culture [B]isn't[/B] a bunch of edgelord weebs screeching rape on the Internet at things they don't like. Rape culture [B]is[/B] mothers telling their daughters, with a straight face: not to wear revealing clothes; don't walk down dark alleyways; and never travel alone at night. And all the while, they don't even once stop to think about the ramifications of the world they're describing, by doing so. Rape culture [B]isn't[/B] pathetic, depraved men thinking they're entitled to sex, or using sex as a tool of power and control. Rape culture [B]is[/B] the collection of ideas in our cultures' mind that makes us think "This is just the way the world is" without batting an eyelash at it or considering it in any way strange. I think everyone can agree these comments are vile, and I think most people will agree that most of these commenters don't mean it in a literal sense - they're just angry (for inane, petty reasons) and are trying to think of the most vile and hurtful things they can say to express that anger. And threatening rape against a woman is certainly one of the most vile and hurtful things I can think of that they could say. But that, by its very nature, makes people stop and think about it, and think about how terrible it is. That is the point, after all, of them saying it - they're angry, and they want everyone to know that they are angry. It is antithetical to the subtle and subversive nature of how other ideas of rape just settle in our collective minds as "simple fact", like the aforementioned mothers warning their daughters about going out at night. I won't argue that there is no rape culture in the Western world. But I would argue that this is not an example of it.[/QUOTE] "Rape Culture" is a cheap excuse to Yell at, berate and attack people (for things they're often not even responsible for), when you should be cooperating, educating and critiquing the status quo instead. It's a shitty excuse to breed animosity and discord when unity and community should be encouraged. "White mans burden", "Rape Culture", "Patriarchy." It's all an excuse to throw a tantrum and do fuck all to have an intellectual discourse about potential tangible, positive progress. No one is looking for a solution, they're just looking for an excuse to abuse people they disagree with. If these people wanted a solution, they wouldn't be invoking the unholy trinity of Evil White Men. They wouldn't be attacking people and destroying property. They would foster a dialogue. No matter how hard it is. They would fight with kindness and tolerance (which they claim to love so much) as a weapon and a shield. But they don't they use violent hashtags and loud temper-tantrums. in 1968, black protesters didn't attack white people who came to join them. nor did they ask them to do all the dirty work to make up for "their guilt". Their received them, encouraged them and joined with them. Today, "progressive" protesters abuse them for not being POC or being CIS. They order them to be violent on their behalf during protest and demand their compliance with thread of assault, should they refuse. It's insane.

[QUOTE=Pascall;52757934]Let a girl live, damn. Some girls wanna rock the hair. Who cares. People are gross.[/QUOTE] Its a bit more than that. Getting death and rape threats over it is outright maniac. Like, holy shit, its just hairy legs ffs.

[QUOTE=download;52758226]You need to demonstrate that rape and rape threats are considered acceptable with a significant part of the population before you can say that. In the case of the Western world it's considered disgusting and certainly not tolerated. I'd be shocked if you could find a double digit percentage support for rape. Backwaters like the Middle East and Africa are a different matter.[/QUOTE] My dude sexual harassment and assault is still treated as not a big deal by enough people in positions of power that it's a fucking problem

ay the proof of rape culture, whilst admittedly a fairly exaggerated name, can be shown in this thread. Responses that are going "No, rape culture doesn't exist" "Yeah but it's only a few fucks" etc. show this; instead of just blatantly being "that's wrong", it's the subtle and slow normalisation or acceptance that it exists perpetuates it. We should all be fighting against it, rather than just being like "oh well some people are always going to be like that, not all men are like that". We don't take the "but it's a few bad apples" excuse when it comes to police brutality, why should we accept the same when it comes to violence and negative biases towards women? no clue what reality Bomimo exists in tho - their response is exactly the sort that perpetuates it; denying it's existence and then somehow using it as an attack on progressives.

[QUOTE=Bomimo;52758616]"Rape Culture" is a cheap excuse to Yell at, berate and attack people (for things they're often not even responsible for), when you should be cooperating, educating and critiquing the status quo instead. It's a shitty excuse to breed animosity and discord when unity and community should be encouraged. "White mans burden", "Rape Culture", "Patriarchy." It's all an excuse to throw a tantrum and do fuck all to have an intellectual discourse about potential tangible, positive progress. No one is looking for a solution, they're just looking for an excuse to abuse people they disagree with. If these people wanted a solution, they wouldn't be invoking the unholy trinity of Evil White Men. They wouldn't be attacking people and destroying property. They would foster a dialogue. No matter how hard it is. They would fight with kindness and tolerance (which they claim to love so much) as a weapon and a shield. But they don't they use violent hashtags and loud temper-tantrums. in 1968, black protesters didn't attack white people who came to join them. nor did they ask them to do all the dirty work to make up for "their guilt". Their received them, encouraged them and joined with them. Today, "progressive" protesters abuse them for not being POC or being CIS. They order them to be violent on their behalf during protest and demand their compliance with thread of assault, should they refuse. It's insane.[/QUOTE] You sound like that old fuck from duck dynasty who bemoaned gay people for not being like the "good old blacks who would just smile and sing songs :)))" This hollow obsession with dialogue and the belief that there's absolutely none happening is pathetic. And yes please use the low hanging fruit of 15 year olds on tumblr who just got into social justice to delegitimize an entire movement and suggest they're doing it all wrong. [editline]value[/editline] Oh, and misinterpreting/delegitimizing the struggles and actions of social movements for daring to inconvenience people isn't new. [T]https://storage.synaptic.att.com/rest/objects/4a08bf2eb11f2e1504f50415291d2504f600629b557c?uid=7be5f8cb9eb14188b0e40ae93aca2099%2FkingcenterATpalantirDOTnet&expires=1590984000&signature=5rLA8sfsmel9IStFkBTp1boTrk0%3D[/T]

When this kind of thing comes up I always think, how many people have to send rape threats to someone to have a title "x receives death threats" or how many people have to be outraged to have the title "group x is outraged because y" I'm pretty sure I could find something classified as a rape threat in the comments on every popular female youtubers video.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;52758766]When this kind of thing comes up I always think, how many people have to send rape threats to someone to have a title "x receives death threats" or how many people have to be outraged to have the title "group x is outraged because y" I'm pretty sure I could find something classified as a rape threat in the comments on every popular female youtubers video.[/QUOTE] The fact that women online receive frequently rape threats doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken less seriously. It instead shows there's a general problem, and it's not just a few isolated guys being dicks online. What makes it worst here is that she's being bullied by guys trying to force her into the body choices they find acceptable for women, when it's her body and her choice. That's why beeing free to have body hair can be such a big deal for a lot of women. It represents freedom from that social pressure. And this is a violent and visible showcase of a body image pressure that can be way more subtlely forced on people.

I don't understand how we are still getting [i]"lmao rape culture doesn't exist!! rape is a crime!!! where do I get my rape trophy then???!"[/i] comments every single time this subject is mentioned? How could you be so opposed to a concept that you will vehemently dismiss it any time it comes up, but never stop and read the replies that clarify what it actually is?. Literally every time the subject comes up someone will explain that it's not about society actively promoting rape, but elements of society that enable rapists and make them less likely to face consequences for their crimes. Attitudes like the whole "lmao trump talking about sexually assaulting a married woman is just guy talk we all do it!!"?- or all those times courtrooms consider the future of the ~poor misunderstood rapist~ before justice for the victim, like that guy who got 6 months for literal rape because he could fucking swim fast?. That's what people mean by rape culture. I'm starting to think you guys have read the replies and just discard them so you can continue getting righteously indignant about the imagined tyranny of the dreaded SJW kabal of teenage girls hailing from the tumblr sub-realm.

[QUOTE=download;52758505] Citation needed. It's also not evidence of a rape culture. It would only take a few percent of the population to achieve that, even less if the claims of high non-reporting are true because the perpetrators probably get away with it a lot more. [/QUOTE] The fact that you aren't familiar with that statistic or some variety of it (it's one of the most oft quoted?) and the fact that you followed it up with your own "citation needed" off-the-cuff theory in an attempt to devalue it means you're literally part of the problem. Congratulations.

[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52758664]ay the proof of rape culture, whilst admittedly a fairly exaggerated name, can be shown in this thread. Responses that are going "No, rape culture doesn't exist" "Yeah but it's only a few fucks" etc. show this; instead of just blatantly being "that's wrong", it's the subtle and slow normalisation or acceptance that it exists perpetuates it. We should all be fighting against it, rather than just being like "oh well some people are always going to be like that, not all men are like that". We don't take the "but it's a few bad apples" excuse when it comes to police brutality, why should we accept the same when it comes to violence and negative biases towards women? no clue what reality Bomimo exists in tho - their response is exactly the sort that perpetuates it; denying it's existence and then somehow using it as an attack on progressives. like not gonna lie I'm absolutely not a fan of unshaved legs but that model can do whatever the hell they want, and they should be able to do just that without receiving rape threats.[/QUOTE] "the proof that rape culture exists is that people here are saying it doesn't exist" Fucking WHAT mate. This is the genotype of the broken twisted logic used to argue these positions, here on display. if you need to use Kafka-trapping to justify your argument the ground your standing on is shakey as hell.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;52759323]"the proof that rape culture exists is that people here are saying it doesn't exist" Fucking WHAT mate. This is the genotype of the broken twisted logic used to argue these positions, here on display. if you need to use Kafka-trapping to justify your argument the ground your standing on is shakey as hell.[/QUOTE] I like how you quoted me with a sentence I didn't actually say. Did you read my post? You certainly don't seem to understand it,anyway. I'm not going to rebute something that's been fabricated.

[QUOTE=dzonint;52758498]Ok, and how is that? Do you think rapists who grew up in western world culture don't know that rape is bad (or that at the very least other people think it's bad)? How do you plan on preventing rapists who plan on raping people from raping them? What sort of social causes are there that cause rapists to be rapists, other than their own will?[/QUOTE] This is quite patently untrue by the way. Most rapes aren't slipping a drug into someone's drink or violently dragging them into an alley to viciously fuck them. It's usually a high degree of coercion and/or abuse of an intoxicated person. In those cases rapists often do admit that they thought what they were doing was okay, or even good at the time, in testimonies.

[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52759340]I like how you quoted me with a sentence I didn't actually say. Did you read my post? You certainly don't seem to understand it,anyway. I'm not going to rebute something that's been fabricated.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter how you dress it up. "their response is exactly the sort that perpetuates it; denying it's existence and then somehow using it as an attack on progressives." Is kafkatrapping.

A good portion of rapists are also people who are close to the victim. Friends, family members, boyfriends or girlfriends. Rape isn't always violent. Sometimes it can literally just be your SO insisting that you have sex while the whole time you didn't want to. That's why a lot of rape victims have guilt. Because they didn't protest hard enough or they didn't find the courage to keep telling the other person no.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;52759323]"the proof that rape culture exists is that people here are saying it doesn't exist" Fucking WHAT mate. This is the genotype of the broken twisted logic used to argue these positions, here on display. if you need to use Kafka-trapping to justify your argument the ground your standing on is shakey as hell.[/QUOTE] That's not really the gist of it. It's not "if you deny it, it exists", it's the ridiculous degree of defensiveness people take on when denying it. People seem to be more eager to deny rape culture, every aspect of it, on every level, than to actually condemn rape

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52759403]That's not really the gist of it. It's not "if you deny it, it exists", it's the ridiculous degree of defensiveness people take on when denying it. People seem to be more eager to deny rape culture, every aspect of it, on every level, than to actually condemn rape[/QUOTE] Thats clearly not what i took from that post, but i think trying to take which aspects of a story people talk about as an objective weighing of importance is a really bad idea. If someone wants to argue rape culture doesnt exist that has no bearing on whether or not they think rape itself is bad or good, so attacking those posters over not making sure to include a little "but i think rape threats are really bad don't make them" would clearly put you at fault, rather than them. Basically sure, you might disagree with those people, but actually discuss it with them don't just make a "but rape is bad how dare you" shitpost to try to shut down that discussion.

I don't mind if the woman I'm dating has a little peachfuzz on her legs, it's kinda tickly and nice :smile: Besides, women seem to be perennially cold for the most part and the shock of having them jam their frozen popsicle legs against me in the middle of the night when they cuddle with me sends me flying a foot out of bed. :v: Besides, most men really need to go get a waxing done once - just fucking [I]once[/I] to have a healthy respect for the shit women do to make themselves feel nice and attractive. Shit's fucking painful, man - my ex tried it out on some back hair [I]once[/I] and I saw stars - fuck everything about that. It's really stupid and fucking dumb to be making fucking [I]RAPE[/I] threats against someone who's comfortable in their own skin and has a positive body image. Folks that do this should be named and shamed because this is what their anonymity allows them to do - be dicks on the internet.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;52759414]Thats clearly not what i took from that post, but i think trying to take which aspects of a story people talk about as an objective weighing of importance is a really bad idea. If someone wants to argue rape culture doesnt exist that has no bearing on whether or not they think rape itself is bad or good, so attacking those posters over not making sure to include a little "but i think rape threats are really bad don't make them" would clearly put you at fault, rather than them. Basically sure, you might disagree with those people, but actually discuss it with them don't just make a "but rape is bad how dare you" shitpost to try to shut down that discussion.[/QUOTE] Yeah you really haven't understood my post, what Zukriuchen said is what I'm saying. Its not about the weighting of the rape part in their comment at all, its about what the actual content is. Saying rape culture does not exist does not imply that you support rape or are a rapist, I have no idea how you managed to come to that conclusion. Flat out denying it's existence or making an excuse for it (eg "just some fuckheads but there isn't a systematic issue) allows it to perpetuate (note perpetuate, not be the cause of or support) , because once you start to see the cracks, it becomes obvious that there is a deep rooted problem in our society. People need to be more open to seeing whether these problems exist and accepting them as issues rather than racing to say that its a dumb thing that's just locker room talk and deny any evidence of it existing. It's literally the "not all men" argument.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;52759414]Basically sure, you might disagree with those people, but actually discuss it with them don't just make a "but rape is bad how dare you" shitpost to try to shut down that discussion.[/QUOTE] You talk about having a discussion but youre not actually making any points beside getting angry and rating dumb people who say "rape is bad and we should prevent it" on a thread about a girl getting rape threats over how she looks. [QUOTE]attacking those posters[/QUOTE] People didn't agree with them, their poor feelings You can't just say people you don't agree with are thread shitting, and make zero point in the same post. that's pretty ironic.

It only gets more insane the more you think about it. "The hair on your shins in significantly longer than I enjoy so I'm gonna rape you"

[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52759488]Yeah you really haven't understood my post, what Zukriuchen said is what I'm saying. Its not about the weighting of the rape part in their comment at all, its about what the actual content is. Saying rape culture does not exist does not imply that you support rape or are a rapist, I have no idea how you managed to come to that conclusion. Flat out denying it's existence or making an excuse for it (eg "just some fuckheads but there isn't a systematic issue) allows it to perpetuate (note perpetuate, not be the cause of or support) , because once you start to see the cracks, it becomes obvious that there is a deep rooted problem in our society. People need to be more open to seeing whether these problems exist and accepting them as issues rather than racing to say that its a dumb thing that's just locker room talk and deny any evidence of it existing. It's literally the "not all men" argument.[/QUOTE] ... No, i've realized i do understand what you're saying. My reply to zurich was a reponse to his explanation, but my original reply applies perfectly well to what you're saying here. Your argument is that people denying the existance of rape culture are at fault for the perpetuation of the existence of rape culture, that's kafkatrapping. Don't do that. [QUOTE=Loth;52759625]You talk about having a discussion but youre not actually making any points beside getting angry and rating dumb people who say "rape is bad and we should prevent it" on a thread about a girl getting rape threats over how she looks. People didn't agree with them, their poor feelings You can't just say people you don't agree with are thread shitting, and make zero point in the same post. that's pretty ironic.[/QUOTE] Telling someone you disagree with them is what im suggesting. Instead there's a bunch of "how dare you have an opinion about rape culture i disagree with, you must be the cause of rape culture!" moral panic shit that tries to shut people down through kafkatrapping without actually addressing their points. Don't think this is very complicated.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;52759758]... No, i've realized i do understand what you're saying. My reply to zurich was a reponse to his explanation, but my original reply applies perfectly well to what you're saying here. Your argument is that people denying the existance of rape culture are at fault for the perpetuation of the existence of rape culture, that's kafkatrapping. Don't do that. Telling someone you disagree with them is what im suggesting. Instead there's a bunch of "how dare you have an opinion about rape culture i disagree with, you must be the cause of rape culture!" moral panic shit that tries to shut people down through kafkatrapping without actually addressing their points. Don't think this is very complicated.[/QUOTE] OK so you're just rating posts and repeating [url=https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kafkatrapping]"kafkatrapping"[/url] (This isn't anything to do with guilt). You can put whatever label you wish onto it, but that's exactly what is happening. I would honestly stand by that; whilst it's a completely different kettle of fish, I would completely agree that if someone argued that white supremacy is not a rising issue in the US and that it's just a bunch of loonies that nobody looks up to - that in turn perpetuates the ability of white supremacy to spread. By not addressing the problem and laying it off as just a few bad apples, it deligitimises the issue and causes it to drop in importance. A problem is there, and needs to be dealt with in order to suppress it. No amount of labels or dumb ratings will not make that the case. You're also completely exaggerating our reactions, nobody is saying what you are claiming we are.

I will never fucking understand why girls get shit thrown at them just for choosing to have body hair. Whether on their legs, underarms, or both. :disappoint: Hell, I personally never shave my legs because I hate showing them off, so :v:

[QUOTE=Pascall;52759388]A good portion of rapists are also people who are close to the victim. Friends, family members, boyfriends or girlfriends. Rape isn't always violent. Sometimes it can literally just be your SO insisting that you have sex while the whole time you didn't want to. That's why a lot of rape victims have guilt. Because they didn't protest hard enough or they didn't find the courage to keep telling the other person no.[/QUOTE] On that note, iirc there was a hole in the law here that made (some?) rape only prosecutable if the rapee fights back. I [I]think[/I] they finally fixed that recently (so that active consent is required now), but I don't know how to look this up properly.

[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52758664]ay the proof of rape culture, whilst admittedly a fairly exaggerated name, can be shown in this thread. Responses that are going "No, rape culture doesn't exist" "Yeah but it's only a few fucks" etc. show this; instead of just blatantly being "that's wrong", it's the subtle and slow normalisation or acceptance that it exists perpetuates it. We should all be fighting against it, rather than just being like "oh well some people are always going to be like that, not all men are like that". We don't take the "but it's a few bad apples" excuse when it comes to police brutality, why should we accept the same when it comes to violence and negative biases towards women? no clue what reality Bomimo exists in tho - their response is exactly the sort that perpetuates it; denying it's existence and then somehow using it as an attack on progressives.[/QUOTE] So you argument is basically "disagree rape culture exists? that's evidence of rape culture!" Itachi_Crow dragged the discussion of "rape culture" into this thread, not the people disagreeing with him. We didn't come in here, read the article and then brush the article off. Don't pretend our disagreement is us brushing off the threats made. [editline]9th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=fulgrim;52758907]I don't understand how we are still getting [i]"lmao rape culture doesn't exist!! rape is a crime!!! where do I get my rape trophy then???!"[/i] comments every single time this subject is mentioned? How could you be so opposed to a concept that you will vehemently dismiss it any time it comes up, but never stop and read the replies that clarify what it actually is?. [/QUOTE] Nice strawman. Maybe you should actually read what has been posted before misrepresenting everyone. [editline]9th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kommodore;52759247]The fact that you aren't familiar with that statistic or some variety of it (it's one of the most oft quoted?) and the fact that you followed it up with your own "citation needed" off-the-cuff theory in an attempt to devalue it means you're literally part of the problem. Congratulations.[/QUOTE] You've made a claim, now it's time to back it up with evidence. For the record, I did look it up and found the statistic. Huffpost (despite being left leaning) explains the limitations of throwing out that statistic. [url]https://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-earp/1-in-4-women-how-the-late_b_8191448.html[/url] [editline]9th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Instant Mix;52759488]Yeah you really haven't understood my post, what Zukriuchen said is what I'm saying. Its not about the weighting of the rape part in their comment at all, its about what the actual content is. Saying rape culture does not exist does not imply that you support rape or are a rapist, I have no idea how you managed to come to that conclusion. Flat out denying it's existence or making an excuse for it (eg "just some fuckheads but there isn't a systematic issue) allows it to perpetuate (note perpetuate, not be the cause of or support) , because once you start to see the cracks, it becomes obvious that there is a deep rooted problem in our society. People need to be more open to seeing whether these problems exist and accepting them as issues rather than racing to say that its a dumb thing that's just locker room talk and deny any evidence of it existing. It's literally the "not all men" argument.[/QUOTE] We're not making an excuse for it, we're telling you that the actions of a tiny minority are not the fault of the majority. A tiny minority who are likely sociopaths who are likely born and not made, which society struggles to detect before they've committed a crime. I find it funny that the far left has spent the last decade going "not all muslims" in response to terrorism but are happy to mock the same concept when it comes to men. Both are crimes perpetuated by small minorities but when it's men we're expected to have collective responsibility for crimes.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;52758412]one in five women in the US are victims of rape or attempted rape is that high enough to meet your arbitrary threshold[/QUOTE] Man, that's a pretty huge claim. Do you have a pretty huge source to back it up? All that I could find from googling were studies that said that one in five women were victims of sexual assault / attempted sexual assault, which has a [I]significantly[/I] broader definition.