[UK] Explosion at Manchester Arena -- 22 dead + 50 Injured - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;52263711]In regards to this line of thought, I find myself wondering about something... As you say, in the wake of each terrorist attack, public sentiment becomes further inflamed and [B]indeed[/B] innocent people do suffer. But this is the important part - innocent people, not [I][I]just[/I][/I] innocent muslims. This appears to be a recurring sleight of word in the matter if broaching the subject the way you do. Innocent muslims suffering from prejudice that arises [I]after[/I] the people who have just been forced to suffer loved ones blown up due to prejudice. It's a simple manifestation of fear, uncertainty and doubt. It's people being afraid and angry because their loved ones and friends are getting killed in recurring, increasingly bold terrorist attacks and at the end of the day, these grieving people are the ones who are told to stand down, calm down and not do anything about anything. Those who are vocal about their increasing worries are told to deal with it, as apparently people close to you getting killed in religiously fueled attacks are now "part and parcel" of everyday life in major cities. When, in your own words, would you say is it appropriate to also include the indigenous peoples' safety in the bigger picture? Your dial analogy, for example, is particularly disconcerting. It [B]also applies word-for-word for the indigenous peoples of Europe[/B]. Apply a few simple changes: In the end, the victims of terrorist attacks have also had no part in whatever causes extremism to flare up unless living a peaceful, civilized life is exactly what is causing the extremism to manifest for whatever reason. Am I understanding your viewpoint correctly? Correct me if I'm wrong: telling the grievers to suck it up and not be angry is a good, viable solution? I wholly understand your concerns of innocent muslims getting caught in the crossfire, and as history has shown, they unfortunately do. However, this doesn't even address the underlying issue of indigenous European people already being in the crossfire whenever another venue explodes or a truck plows through a crowd. So when would you extend a supportive hand to the Europeans, instead of telling them to "not make the muslims angry, or they might do it again!"? I am genuinely interested in how you, or anyone else here, would approach this issue. This is a problem that is approaching critical mass with every new attack, every new handful of dead civilians. This problem will not go anywhere if you ignore it, and it most certainly won't disappear if you close your eyes and wish it away. How would you see this pressure alleviated [I]without[/I] resorting to media/opinion warfare to suppress dissenting opinions. Without labeling people who are sincerely worried about the state of affairs a "racist" or "-phobe". How?[/QUOTE] I agree insofar with your concerns we have a lot of knee jerk reactions on both sides of the matter. Unfortunately the average person doesn't understand that terrorism, especially Islamist Terrorism in particular, has no easy solution to the problem. You could squish every terror movement in existence down to the last member, and they'd still likely resurrect themselves in a different guise, [i]as long as the cycle of hatred that allowed them to form persists.[/i] Terrorism cannot be crushed, it can only be stifled if you want it to end permanently. Terror groups cleverly use the 'us vs them' mentality to anger other muslims to want to join them, on top of which guys who want to strike back against a world they feel has no place for them are ripe for joining up with such groups, to say nothing of mercenaries who just want to be paid. Hell, there are guys who join terror groups just for the sake of being paid and so that they and their families can get 3 square meals a day instead of starving. Should people be angry that incidents like this happen? I believe yes. But this anger must be constructively channeled, instead of targeting those who had nothing to do with such attacks in the first place. Should people who are concerned that these attacks happen be given a voice? also yes. But that also doesn't mean knee jerk shit such as "throw the muslims out" and "britain for the british/america for americans" should get [i]any currency whatsoever[/i] in mainstream discourse. And simply taking your hatred out on Muslims who had nothing to do with an incident, while tempting, will only expand the existing hatred some more and cause more problems.

Referring to Just-a-boy's point on telling victims to calm down; That sentiment is really atrocious imo and quite clearly is only trying to bottlecap a torrent of concerns. Not only that, but BDA's assessment on how discrimination creates more of these radical extremists is actually being countered in studies. [quote]New research from Queen Mary University of London has found youth, wealth, and being in full-time education to be risk factors associated with violent radicalisation. Contrary to popular views – religious practice, health and social inequalities, discrimination, and political engagement showed no links.[/quote] [url]http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/smd/125815.html[/url] [url]http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0090718[/url] [quote]The evidence we have presented, tentative though it is, suggests little direct connection between poverty or education and participation in terrorism. Indeed, the available evidence indicates that, compared with the relevant population, members of Hezbollah’s militant wing or Palestinian suicide bombers are at least as likely to come from economically advantaged families and have a relatively high level of education as to come from the ranks of the economically disadvantaged and uneducated. Similarly, members of the Israeli Jewish Underground who terrorized Palestinian civilians in the late 1970s and early 1980s were overwhelmingly well educated and in highly regarded occupations.[/quote] [url]http://www.sas.rochester.edu/psc/clarke/214/Krueger03.pdf[/url]

[QUOTE=Tudd;52263692] Apparently CBS also has scrubbed him off their website already. [b]EDIT[/b] This guy is really going to need to change his Twitter Bio now.[/QUOTE] Why in the holy mother of fuck would he do that? Instead of immediately issuing an apology, he keeps going on like "hahaaaaaa funny gif i made mistake" and then immediately goes to talking about Trump like he's suddenly trying to activate Directive 4 in the brainwashed androids to deflect the whole thing and have it blow over. The fact that he hasn't deleted the tweets after seven hours or so is even more confusing, because you'd think burying this sort of thing as fast as humanly possible would be the best course of action.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52263708]why concerts man... why a fucking concert hall with kids :-([/QUOTE] i feel that, its such a ideology free place where everyone comes together to listen to so music. you get people from all kinds of backgrounds at concerts, i've seen it first hand and everyone just has a good time. its complete bullshit to attack a concert, the only common thing these people have in common is they like the artist playing. i know this doesn't happen often but it makes me a little uneasy whenever i'm at a concert, just because of how unexpected it actually is.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52263708]why concerts man... why a fucking concert hall with kids :-([/QUOTE] Well the goal of terrorism like school shootings is to make as much outcry/noise as possible. Why wouldn't you go after a pile of kids, it's the best possible choice to produce as much horror in as short a timespan as you possibly can. Iunno how much ISIS/islamist propoganda y'all have read, but part of their goal with terror attacks is to incite the west as a whole into a war with all of Islam. Both by causing public outrage, and by causing the west to view muslims as the other and start persecuting/cracking down. Which also causes that population to turn against the west and start collectively causing shit to further agitate. I'd put my money on that being the reason they went after a concentrated amount of "kids" in particular.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52263745] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/manchester-arena-ariana-grande-terror-carry-on-teenagers-respond-a7750486.html[/url] That sentiment is really atrocious imo[/QUOTE] look i know you have some out there views but can you address this. why is it atrocious to carry on as normal? how do you suggest the public respond? sorry if I misunderstood because i was originally annoyed at all this "tudd" views nonsense.

[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52263774]Well the goal of terrorism like school shootings is to make as much outcry/noise as possible. Why wouldn't you go after a pile of kids, it's the best possible choice to produce as much horror in as short a timespan as you possibly can.[/QUOTE] I'm sure there's a point where even hard line extremists are going... "bro, you just killed a bunch of kids you fucking asshole".

[QUOTE=DogGunn;52263779]I'm sure there's a point where even hard line extremists are going... "bro, you just killed a bunch of kids you fucking asshole".[/QUOTE] With islamists, nope. Islam basically prescribes that believers are "real" people and non believers are either vessels to convert or fodder to conquer and subjugate. [QUOTE]Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is their destination Quran 9:73[/QUOTE] If you're that far down the hole, your view basically becomes "anyone who isn't a muslim isn't a human being" And there's religious rewards for being as cruel as possible to the kuffar. That's why it's always "bad" muslims who commit terror attacks, because they know what ever "horrible" things they've done, like eat pork, have sex out of wedlock, drink alcohol, allow women to not wear coverings etc will be forgiven. Because waging jihad is a guaranteed ticket to paradise. That's what jihad [I]is. [/I]That effect isn't unique[I] t[/I]o islamists either. Any sort of ridiculous ideological position will create that effect because seemingly the entire world turns to suppress them, so it becomes a purity spiral internally, they assume victim status, and it escalates from there. Islam is just unique in codifying it, basically.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52263780]uhhh, he has the opinion that ignoring a terror attack is a bad idea thats not a very outlandish view[/QUOTE] read it again, how should the public be responding? edit: please dont interject when it's directed at one person I want him to explain.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;52263779]I'm sure there's a point where even hard line extremists are going... "bro, you just killed a bunch of kids you fucking asshole".[/QUOTE] If there are any such, they're a pretty quiet minority. How many terror groups do you know of that actually condemned the actions of another group, except Al-Qaeda and their affliates for example, declaring ISIS to be no less than rabid dogs? I remember that one incident when a school got attacked in Pakistan sometime last year, or the year before, and dozens of children were killed. I didn't see any terror group disavow what happened there.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52263778]look i know you have some out there views but can you address this. why is it atrocious to carry on as normal? how do you suggest the public respond? sorry if I misunderstood because i was originally annoyed at all this "tudd" views nonsense.[/QUOTE] I originally was posting it because I thought the title (and still think it does abit) suggest no response is the best approach to this current event. After reading the full article I snipped out my statement regarding it. The title is really shit, but people should carry on with their lives as best with possible, that is the part I agree with and hence I edited out the article.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52263790]I originally was posting it because I thought the title (and still think it does abit) suggest no response is the best approach to this current event. After reading the full article I snipped out my statement regarding it. The title is really shit, but people should carry on with their lives as best with possible, that is the part I agree with and hence I edited out the article.[/QUOTE] ok understood all is well. didnt see u snipped it, my bad.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52263792]ok understood all is well. didnt see u snipped it, my bad.[/QUOTE] More of my fault not reading the full article just abit longer; But the part that really fleshed out a comprehensive opinion wasn't till the very bottom and goddamn that title is atrocious.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52263791]i mean, going "ok well whats your solution" doesnt get you anywhere educating people on how to properly identify suspicious people at events like this is a better start than "its ok guys just live ur life normally" [/QUOTE] that is not a response at all. and that's not what i meant either. when we have young white male students leaving bombs on trains here, you need to understand the imminent danger we as a public here face. there is no real response the public can make. "making everyone suspiscious" is not a solution and makes no sense.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52263811]they literally tell you to look out for suspicious items that people leave i think we are having a two different discussions here[/QUOTE] suspicious items like a black rucksack? maybe a handbag.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52263708]why concerts man... why a fucking concert hall with kids :-([/QUOTE] Depends on what the attacker's background and motivations turn out to be. A mentally ill person is typically just going for max damage to society or the most dramatic way of going out. And even then these people have a wide range of complex issues you can't explain. Someone who is a radical islamist might choose a concert for practical purposes (crowded areas without security around the area) or what they deem to be a location of western "degeneracy". I rather wait till there is more details released on the suspect before going deeper, but just figured to comment on your query on why this location.

Some really nice stuff coming out of locals to Manchester, offering help and looking for people. The BBC also made [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/13865002"]this really nice article for kids[/URL] about how to deal with news like this. Something that is probably overlooked in situations like this is just how mind bending it must be to be a kid listening to this news, even more so as it's happening to other kids.

INSHALLAH [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - GunFox))[/highlight] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Trolling" - Hezzy))[/highlight]

I have awakened to this shocking news. These were kids just like we all used to be. They couldn't of known this would happen, they were kids, they just wanted to have fun. And yet now because of this fucking incident many have been silenced forever and the survivors will never forget this, it will be plastered into their minds forever, driving a wedge in between them and a healthy growing up. And the claim that we should take this as part of everyday life is fucking stupid. How can we expect to live in a functioning society when we have atrocities like this happening? I will refuse to desensitise to this violence, because this isn't the kind of world I want to live in, a world where innocent people become victims of things that they don't even understand. But I will also not live my life in fear

[QUOTE=soulharvester;52263841]INSHALLAH[/QUOTE] cunt [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Novangel))[/highlight]

And what will be done in retaliation? Spy on more members of the public to prevent nothing. Anyone caught to be radicalising should be given once chance with help to rehabilitate, after that they should have no chance to walk to streets free again as they are a waste of air.

Also were all the reports saying there were 2 explosions proved to be misinformation?

Well shit, I'm going a to con this saturday, now I'm gonna be paranoid as fuck all day there, since I don't wanna cancel this close to it.

[QUOTE=Darth_Kris;52263878]Well shit, I'm going a to con this saturday, now I'm gonna be paranoid as fuck all day there, since I don't wanna cancel this close to it.[/QUOTE] yeah im going to mcm (and i assume that's what you're referring too if your uk flair is to be believed) and ngl i'm kinda stressed after this, but hey im not gonna let terrorism stop me from having a good time tbh though i'm surprised how little security there is at mcm, i wonder if it'll be a bit tighter after yesterday. i already noticed more police than usual at the train station.

[QUOTE=Darth_Kris;52263878]Well shit, I'm going a to con this saturday, now I'm gonna be paranoid as fuck all day there, since I don't wanna cancel this close to it.[/QUOTE] You're almost certainly going to be fine. These things are still huge statistical outliers. People aren't telling others to "move on" or whatever to mean "deal w/ it this is life now". But to instead keep going about your life as you were because living in fear, and reacting irrationally is what terrorists want. We shouldn't forget these things happen, or the victims. But we also shouldn't let the attackers dictate our lives.

[QUOTE=DatHarry;52263886]yeah im going to mcm (and i assume that's what you're referring too if your uk flair is to be believed) and ngl i'm kinda stressed after this, but hey im not gonna let terrorism stop me from having a good time tbh though i'm surprised how little security there is at mcm, i wonder if it'll be a bit tighter after yesterday. i already noticed more police than usual at the train station.[/QUOTE] Yeah I meant MCM, I hope they tighten the security at least, would make sense too since that got a higher contentration of well known people as well. I simply just don't want some extremist fuck trying to ruin my fun of spending too much money on merch

[QUOTE=soulharvester;52263841]INSHALLAH [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - GunFox))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Yo I usually refrain from angry outbursts and I don't mean to bring attention to this but I'll say it anyway go fuck yourself [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Novangel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Crooky14;52263865]Also were all the reports saying there were 2 explosions proved to be misinformation?[/QUOTE] Probably, since it was a suicide bomber. I haven't read anything about a second explosion on the BBC or Reuters.

[QUOTE=icemaz;52263823]Some really nice stuff coming out of locals to Manchester, offering help and looking for people. The BBC also made [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/13865002"]this really nice article for kids[/URL] about how to deal with news like this. Something that is probably overlooked in situations like this is just how mind bending it must be to be a kid listening to this news, even more so as it's happening to other kids.[/QUOTE] This is really lovely, it's good to see stuff like this to help young ones out when troubling events happen

[QUOTE=Darth_Kris;52263898]Yeah I meant MCM, I hope they tighten the security at least, would make sense too since that got a higher contentration of well known people as well. I simply just don't want some extremist fuck trying to ruin my fun of spending too much money on merch[/QUOTE] I'm also going to be at MCM, as well as going to Iron Maiden on Sunday evening. I'm expecting tight security and I hope that they have it at both for added peace of mind. They'd be rather daft not to really. Don't go freaking out or panicking, just go out and have fun.