[UK] Explosion at Manchester Arena -- 22 dead + 50 Injured - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Aman;52264043]Actually not the worst choice of words. That's really what they are.[/QUOTE] pretty demoralizing word, too. psychologically it works in america's favor, because "evil" and "loser" can stick to everything terrorists do from here on out. it's an enforced future visual.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;52264401]pretty demoralizing word, too. psychologically it works in america's favor, because "evil" and "loser" can stick to everything terrorists do from here on out. it's an enforced future visual.[/QUOTE] I agree its a good way to do it. Some creepy ass loser can't manage with life. Finds solace in a group of similar outcasts (maybe not reciprocated) plots to do something terrible. Like those kids who shoot up schools coz they get bullied. This piece of shit blows up young people having fun because he feels so alienated from it. Definitely a loser. Evil, probably. But evil can have "strength" attached to it; and this has absolutely no display of strength. He's a coward, these are the actions of a weak cowardly loser.

[QUOTE=Darth_Kris;52264375]And of course all the far-right idiots are all like "Europe is so cucked blah blah"[/QUOTE] It's extremely weird how often I see these people build a narrative around the penis size of a dark skinned man and how it's the reason why they are coming to Europe because white men are cucked betas and white women are size queens how broken is a person to reach that point of mentality

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;52264464]It's extremely weird how often I see these people build a narrative around the penis size of a dark skinned man and how it's the reason why they are coming to Europe because white men are cucked betas and white women are size queens how broken is a person to reach that point of mentality[/QUOTE] One only need swallow the red pill (delude oneself into blaming others for ones own unhappiness/perceived failures, ironically not too dissimilar from this broken loon who blew himself up.)

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;52263711]In regards to this line of thought, I find myself wondering about something... As you say, in the wake of each terrorist attack, public sentiment becomes further inflamed and [B]indeed[/B] innocent people do suffer. But this is the important part - innocent people, not [I][I]just[/I][/I] innocent muslims. This appears to be a recurring sleight of word in the matter if broaching the subject the way you do. Innocent muslims suffering from prejudice that arises [I]after[/I] the people who have just been forced to suffer loved ones blown up due to prejudice. It's a simple manifestation of fear, uncertainty and doubt. It's people being afraid and angry because their loved ones and friends are getting killed in recurring, increasingly bold terrorist attacks and at the end of the day, these grieving people are the ones who are told to stand down, calm down and not do anything about anything. Those who are vocal about their increasing worries are told to deal with it, as apparently people close to you getting killed in religiously fueled attacks are now "part and parcel" of everyday life in major cities. When, in your own words, would you say is it appropriate to also include the indigenous peoples' safety in the bigger picture? Your dial analogy, for example, is particularly disconcerting. It [B]also applies word-for-word for the indigenous peoples of Europe[/B]. Apply a few simple changes: In the end, the victims of terrorist attacks have also had no part in whatever causes extremism to flare up unless living a peaceful, civilized life is exactly what is causing the extremism to manifest for whatever reason. Am I understanding your viewpoint correctly? Correct me if I'm wrong: telling the grievers to suck it up and not be angry is a good, viable solution? I wholly understand your concerns of innocent muslims getting caught in the crossfire, and as history has shown, they unfortunately do. However, this doesn't even address the underlying issue of indigenous European people already being in the crossfire whenever another venue explodes or a truck plows through a crowd. So when would you extend a supportive hand to the Europeans, instead of telling them to "not make the muslims angry, or they might do it again!"? I am genuinely interested in how you, or anyone else here, would approach this issue. This is a problem that is approaching critical mass with every new attack, every new handful of dead civilians. This problem will not go anywhere if you ignore it, and it most certainly won't disappear if you close your eyes and wish it away. How would you see this pressure alleviated [I]without[/I] resorting to media/opinion warfare to suppress dissenting opinions. Without labeling people who are sincerely worried about the state of affairs a "racist" or "-phobe". How?[/QUOTE] Just to clarify, I never once said that the victims of terrorist attacks need to "calm down and suck it up," or that they weren't victims, or that they should "just accept" it or that they should do "do nothing" about it. Your post is relying on a huge strawman, a dramatic exaggeration and misrepresentation of my statements. Furthermore, I did not call anybody here a racist or a "-phobe," nor did I attack anybody in any way, and I [B]certainly[/B] didn't fucking imply that the people killed last night were in any way deserving of it. My point, and my only point, is that we cannot allow this sickening tragedy to predicate more tragedy. Turn your aggressions and your outrage away from the innocent Muslim communities, who had absolutely nothing to do with this and are just as sickened by it as your are, and towards the [I]actual[/I] enemy: Islamic extremism. They are not one and the same, and failing to make that distinction only fans the flames of radicalization. Your point about the increasing pressure on Europeans is completely correct however, and ties directly in to the point I'm making in regards to how people become radicalized. While there are currently some critical factors of radicalization missing to provoke larger scale organized violent extremism, the dial is being turned there, too. The greater that pressure, the more people find themselves internalizing misplaced hatred toward Muslims, the greater the social victimization of innocent Muslim my grows, and the more effective terrorist attacks become at radicalizing new extremists and expanding extremist influence. That's the sick genius of high profile terrorist attacks.

[QUOTE=Jordax;52264291][url]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/manchester-terror-attack-ariana-grande-suicide-bomber-children-theresa-may/[/url] Annnnd here we go again, yet another one of those terrorists who was already known to the authorities. This shit just keeps happening and happening.[/QUOTE] I actually been reading a book written by a DHS agent who go overs this exact problem. It is called See Something, Say Nothing if anyone is curious. High recommend.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52264498]I actually been reading a book written by a DHS agent who go overs this exact problem. It is called See Something, Say Nothing if anyone is curious. High recommend.[/QUOTE] What does it cite as the primary reason(s) for why/how somebody on the radar can be overlooked until it's too late?

INSHALLAH [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

Is there anywhere I can donate to help those effected?

Important thing to remember in the wake of these attacks: The guys responsible for planning these things may be fanatics, but they're not idiots. It takes a certain degree of intelligence to fly under the radar of the surveillance being carried out by intelligence services, and these terrorists are shrewd. They've got one objective, and that objective isn't just to blow people up. It's to make people in western countries lose faith in their governments, and to start mistreating their Muslim communities, the better for members of those communities to be radicalized and recruited by these extremist groups. So remember; react with fear and hatred, and you're being every bit the sheep they think you are, and doing exactly what they want. Those who have lost loved ones, or have had those loved ones injured, can't much help it. For everyone else, [I]do[/I] please try to be objective and clear-headed.

Yeah, they're going to keep attacking whether or not people react, but to react with violent paranoia towards muslims is precisely what they want to happen. They want people completely ostracized from western society so they can welcome them with open arms. What the fuck [I]else[/I] are we going to do? Start treating innocents like murder-bombs for sharing an ethno-religious background with these losers? Prematurely arrest people we suspect of crimes even if we don't have evidence of conspiracy? Most modern terror attacks are Islamic Extremists, but consider how many muslim people you pass every day that [I]don't[/I] blow you up.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52264601]Yeah, they're going to keep attacking whether or not people react, but to react with violent paranoia towards muslims is precisely what they want to happen. They want people completely ostracized from western society so they can welcome them with open arms. What the fuck [I]else[/I] are we going to do? Start treating innocents like murder-bombs for sharing an ethno-religious background with these losers? Prematurely arrest people we suspect of crimes even if we don't have evidence of conspiracy? Most modern terror attacks are Islamic Extremists, [B]but consider how many muslim people you pass every day that [I]don't[/I] blow you up.[/B][/QUOTE] Poor yard stick. The fact remains that most Muslims living in western countries, at least the ones that live in accepting communities, are often model citizens, and I can tell you from experience in my own neighbourhood that they often step up as community leaders when nobody else will bother. Of course, you don't hear about that on the news. Doesn't quite fit the sensationalist narrative.

[QUOTE=archangel125;52264538]Important thing to remember in the wake of these attacks: The guys responsible for planning these things may be fanatics, but they're not idiots. It takes a certain degree of intelligence to fly under the radar of the surveillance being carried out by intelligence services, and these terrorists are shrewd. They've got one objective, and that objective isn't just to blow people up. It's to make people in western countries lose faith in their governments, and to start mistreating their Muslim communities, the better for those communities to be radicalized and recruited by these extremist groups. So remember; react with fear and hatred, and you're being every bit the sheep they think you are, and doing exactly what they want. Those who have lost loved ones, or have had those loved ones injured, can't much help it. For everyone else, [I]do[/I] please try to be objective and clear-headed.[/QUOTE] dude, this is very difficult to get across to a huge population.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52264654]dude, this is very difficult to get across to a huge population.[/QUOTE] It is, but anyone reading this can at least reflect on their own reaction.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52264348]one speculation I can make is in the last 8 years, the security has tightened at concert venues, but there is never a security presence at the end of concerts. It only occurs before where they search you, but after... it is a free for all. I really hope they can enhance security because when you have crowds, it just makes it a higher risk.[/QUOTE] its incredibly expensive to keep door guards hanging around, gates pretty much close when the concert begins and are only opened by grounds staff ~10 minutes before end of the concert it will probably happen tho but expect ticket prices to soar to accommodate for this

[QUOTE=Vasili;52264535]Is there anywhere I can donate to help those effected?[/QUOTE] We had a collection today in the local Tesco

[QUOTE=BBC]Salman Abedi, 22, has been named by police as the suspected suicide bomber who killed 22 people and injured 59 at Manchester Arena on Monday night. The BBC understands he was Manchester born and from a family of Libyan origin. Abedi had not been identified by the coroner so no further details would be given, Greater Manchester Police said. So far three victims have been named - Saffie Rose Roussos, eight, Georgina Callande and 28-year-old John Atkinson.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40020168]BBC[/url]

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52264460]I agree its a good way to do it. [B]Some creepy ass loser can't manage with life. Finds solace in a group of similar outcasts (maybe not reciprocated) plots to do something terrible. Like those kids who shoot up schools coz they get bullied. This piece of shit blows up young people having fun because he feels so alienated from it.[/B] Definitely a loser. Evil, probably. But evil can have "strength" attached to it; and this has absolutely no display of strength. He's a coward, these are the actions of a weak cowardly loser.[/QUOTE] nice theory, have you got a thread of evidence to confirm your thinking? I agree he is a coward though but an evil coward.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52264949]nice theory, have you got a thread of evidence to confirm your thinking? I agree he is a coward though but an evil coward.[/QUOTE] Sociology

[QUOTE=Crooky14;52264960]Sociology[/QUOTE] extremism, we are aware that muslims are as a whole good people but let's not pretend that there is an element of extreme islam that cannot be excused.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52265007]extremism, we are aware that muslims are as a whole good people but let's not pretend that there is an element of extreme islam that cannot be excused.[/QUOTE] No one is excusing it. It's the process of radicalising the individual to turn to extremism that he was referring to

The poem that was just read out outside Manchester Town hall was absolutely incredible, if you get a chance listen to it.

[QUOTE=Crooky14;52265055]No one is excusing it. It's the process of radicalising the individual to turn to extremism that he was referring to[/QUOTE] the suggestion was that this guy felt alienated and couldn't cope with life so found solace in terrorism, not that he believed wholeheartedly with a dangerous ideology, we need to accept that this ideology exists and is believed before we can prevent it from growing rather than keep making excuses for this type of behaviour.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52265090]the suggestion was that this guy felt alienated and couldn't cope with life so found solace in terrorism, not that he believed wholeheartedly with a dangerous ideology, we need to accept that this ideology exists and is believed before we can prevent it from growing rather than keep making excuses for this type of behaviour.[/QUOTE] This guy felt alienated therefore turned to believing in a dangerous ideology as a way of finding purpose and a way out. That's what radicalization is. These things are two separate factors. Preventing it from spreading is preventing radicalization. They both contribute and in no way am I saying one is more important in the process than the other [editline]23rd May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Jarokwa;52265136]gee, why am i not surprised. and its not like it even matters, this shit will keep happening and the world will keep shrugging it off hoping it will just stop one day.[/QUOTE] Do you know this guy?

I think terrorists groups work a lot like cults. Just like people who join gangs or biker clubs, or hate groups like the KKK. They're looking for a group of like-minded peers, it's a family, and it attracts people. They're very good at brainwashing people to follow the cause. I feel like a lot of the "home grown" terrorists fall into what mdeceiver said. It's also why ISIS takes credit for everything. You don't have to be a ~bonafide ISIS terrorist~ trained in Raqqa in order to carry out their mission. ISIS encourages these people abroad who are looking for an attractive group to be a part of, for purpose. ISIS takes credit for everything because it self promotes their brand to people who are likely to radicalize. It's saying look how big and powerful and far-reaching we are. Do what we say and you will die gloriously/be hailed a hero in the Islamic State. Their whole group runs on branding. From the black cars and flags and outfits, to the idea of making an Islamic theocracy in the middle east. Their group is a violent cult/gang/clan that is attractive to certain people.

Probably irrelevant, but.. [media]https://twitter.com/ArianaGrande/status/866849021519966208[/media] I can't even begin to imagine the kind of weight it must be on her. Someone twisting her event into something more sinister; to fit the needs of their agenda.. The only crime they all committed was just having a good time listening to music, its all just disheartening.

There will be always terrorist attacks happening. No matter what we do. It is impossible to completely prevent them. We have to accept this and live life to its fullest.

[QUOTE=Crooky14;52265140]This guy felt alienated therefore turned to believing in a dangerous ideology as a way of finding purpose and a way out. That's what radicalization is. These things are two separate factors. Preventing it from spreading is preventing radicalization. They both contribute and in no way am I saying one is more important in the process than the other [editline]23rd May 2017[/editline] Do you know this guy?[/QUOTE] there are a lot of muslims fighting for isis that are very well educated and professional people, not all terrorists are fragile minded idiots. The ideology is the root of the problem not the frame of mind of the terrorists.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52265178]there are a lot of muslims fighting for isis that are very well educated and professional people, not all terrorists are fragile minded idiots. The ideology is the root of the problem not the frame of mind of the terrorists.[/QUOTE] And you have to ask why they turn to terrorism, especially in the middle east the situation politically is extremely fragile, communities have been ravaged by war for the last 20 years. Many people have lost family and experienced the violence first hand. In this kind of environment these social economic factors allow these types of ideologies to be spread very easily. That is why there is more terrorism in the middle east as these factors that have emerged over the last 30 years because of western foreign policy and war therefore providing an environment where this ideology is everywhere as it is easier for individuals to become radicalized into following this ideology. That is why islamic terrorism suddenly spiked about 30 years back and continues to remain at a higher level. There are many more factors that allow the ideology to spread other than "its there, so people believe it"

[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;52265171]There will be always terrorist attacks happening. No matter what we do. It is impossible to completely prevent them. We have to accept this and live life to its fullest.[/QUOTE] If we give up and let the status quo continue, these attacks will only keep on happening. This shouldn't be normal, no matter how much you've lost hope in seeing an end to this it shouldn't not be an end, but a reminder of what we must do to limit the power of these terrorists. They love rash actions that further create drifts between "them" and "us", they also love having their own people backed into the corner, so that way they have no where else to turn to but terrorism. The way I see it, the only way we can wreck their hold onto the world, is to break the walls that many irrational and broken people have created in times of desperation and sorrow. We must remember that together we are stronger than those who wish to scare us away from each other, and that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.