[UK] Explosion at Manchester Arena -- 22 dead + 50 Injured - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52270093]so the uk isn't the Orwellian nightmare you guys are predicting yet then, lol.[/QUOTE] You asked what policies make people feel uncomfortable, got answers, then dumbed the ones you didn't like and pushed the goalposts to "well if it's not an orwellian nightmare then you shouldn't complain about it" Why even ask the question if you weren't going to accept the answers? Why should anyone respond to you in the future?

[QUOTE=Tudd;52270272]So then I have to ask; Was this conference room in a public building? [editline]24th May 2017[/editline][/quote] no, it was a private building but the receptionist let them past because, of course, they're the fucking police. most of the ppl there told me afterward they were worried they were doing something wrong by being there once they came in. tehy were there literally just to intimidate us and it was kind of annoying. [quote] Why is it bollocks? Are you saying it is fake?[/QUOTE] [quote]and before you say "ooo its made by the UK TV stations", its made by channel 4, the terrestrial telly equivalent of fuckin buzzfeed. they once did this bollocks documentary where people fucked in a box live on stage but OOO you can't see it, evne though the ads implied you would. they're ratings-hungry mongrels who will cook up any old bollocks just to justify their trite and outdated format. they used to be somewhat cutting edge but now they're not even your stepdad's knackered old razor.[/quote] do you think that Michael Moore documentary where he walks into a bank and signs a single bit of paper to get a shotgu nand is like WHOA WHAT'S WORNG WITH OUR COUNTRY TOO MANY GUNS AAAAAAh is real? because if not then, yeah. same exact thing. skewed arsehole documentary filmmaking made to sensationalize and shock rather than inform or actually incite discourse.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;52270288]No, they're rightfully saying that Channel 4 are not a bastion of intelligence or remotely ethical. The entire network thrives off of making sensationalised bullshit. Compare any documentary they backed to something do by the BBC, or fuck even ITV (another private media group over here) and it'll be lacking. Compare their frankly exploitative programming to any other terrestrial network and it's fucking shameful. Channel 4 is fucking garbage and you should be taking their "investigative journalism" with a mountain of salt.[/QUOTE] Okay I get that you don't like channel 4. But it seems you are just making excuses to not talk about the content of the documentary directly.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52270283]i can't but i fail to see what relevance this has to what we were discussing?[/QUOTE] you were implying that i think any sort of violent protest or riot should just be ignored. if not then you were just making a weaksauce jibe [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Tudd;52270296]Okay I get that you don't like channel 4. But it seems you are just making excuses to not talk about the content of the documentary directly.[/QUOTE] lol. the ol' Tudd Two Punch, condescend, then redirect. the content of the documentary cannot be taken as it is presented. it is about as real as an episode of Kitchen Nightmares. and not the good one. the shit one with the violin.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270293]no, it was a private building but the receptionist let them past because, of course, they're the fucking police. most of the ppl there told me afterward they were worried they were doing something wrong by being there once they came in. tehy were there literally just to intimidate us and it was kind of annoying.[/quote] I'm not familiar with the British laws on assembly. So just curious if anyone can clue me on how police were able to enter a conference room to a private Establishment if yall didn't want them? [quote] do you think that Michael Moore documentary where he walks into a bank and signs a single bit of paper to get a shotgu nand is like WHOA WHAT'S WORNG WITH OUR COUNTRY TOO MANY GUNS AAAAAAh is real? because if not then, yeah. same exact thing. skewed arsehole documentary filmmaking made to sensationalize and shock rather than inform or actually incite discourse.[/QUOTE] Well if you watched a bit of the documentary, it is just letting the subjects speak their mind and views. It isn't like a Michael Moore documentary where he ring-leads a skit. They aren't comparable in that way unless you want to be completely dismissive. If channel 4 pisses you off that much; Here is a publication from VICE that have some of the same people in it. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC2VQjSgpso[/media]

lol. the preview is Anjem Choudary, an extremist cleric who's now in jail along with a shitload of his cohorts and co-conspirators. his groups have also all been declared illegal terrorist organizations too. but sure, i guess this is "Allowed In The Streets of The UK", Tudd. i guess the UK is under Shakira law.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270300] lol. the ol' Tudd Two Punch, condescend, then redirect. the content of the documentary cannot be taken as it is presented. it is about as real as an episode of Kitchen Nightmares. and not the good one. the shit one with the violin.[/QUOTE] So you are implying it is fake then? Just want to make sure how much in denial you are when two different publications of different political leanings is reporting the same thing. [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270314]lol. the preview is Anjem Choudary, an extremist cleric who's now in jail along with a shitload of his cohorts and co-conspirators. his groups have also all been declared illegal terrorist organizations too. but sure, i guess this is "Allowed In The Streets of The UK", Tudd. i guess the UK is under Shakira law.[/QUOTE] Yes, because they crossed a line, but their associates can still walk the streets and do their thing. So that is why I asked what do you believe in that is oppressed. Considering that these guys are probably the closest to real overwatch by the state as you can get. And I would argue they aren't really oppressed if the country has to jump hoops and hurdles to even convict one of these guys.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52270289]You asked what policies make people feel uncomfortable, got answers, then dumbed the ones you didn't like and pushed the goalposts to "well if it's not an orwellian nightmare then you shouldn't complain about it" Why even ask the question if you weren't going to accept the answers? Why should anyone respond to you in the future?[/QUOTE] well we were discussing the govt's policies on anti-terrorism measures though, i never changed the goalposts here.

it's not "fake" but it's fucking outdated and incorrect to say that youre allowed to rant about killing whitey on the streets of London anymore as much as you're allowed to scream about killing blackie. like wtf is your point? youre pushing, once again, this stupid /pol/ agenda that the UK is wracked with anti-white, pro-islam pro-sharia sentiment. it really isnt. i can assure you. this country is [b]seriously[/b] fucking racist. just like the rest of Europe.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270324]it's not "fake" but it's fucking outdated and incorrect to say that youre allowed to rant about killing whitey on the streets of London anywhere as much as you're allowed to scream about killing blackie. like wtf is your point? youre pushing, once again, this stupid /pol/ agenda that the UK is wracked with anti-white, pro-islam pro-sharia sentiment. it really isnt. i can assure you. this country is [b]seriously[/b] fucking racist. [B]just like the rest of Europe.[/B][/QUOTE] You had me up until that point. I don't see how countries like Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark etc. can be considered racist.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270324]it's not "fake" but it's fucking outdated and incorrect to say that youre allowed to rant about killing whitey on the streets of London anymore as much as you're allowed to scream about killing blackie. like wtf is your point? youre pushing, once again, this stupid /pol/ agenda that the UK is wracked with anti-white, pro-islam pro-sharia sentiment. it really isnt. i can assure you. this country is [b]seriously[/b] fucking racist. just like the rest of Europe.[/QUOTE] well we should just ignore racism like we should terrorism and it will just go away.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52270296]Okay I get that you don't like channel 4. But it seems you are just making excuses to not talk about the content of the documentary directly.[/QUOTE] Sure if you want to take that as making excuses, you can. But you're not actually reading what I'm saying clearly. I'll simplify things; whilst content in the documentary may not be entirely incorrect, Channel 4 have everything to gain and nothing to lose by carefully editing things to seem worse than they are. They are not held to quite the same broadcasting standards as actually respected networks. Does this country have an issue with radical hate-preachers (of all kinds)? No more than the US does. Are they allowed to walk the streets? Yeah, probably would be in the US too because apparently insulting everybody is "free speech". Are we doing something about it? Yeah, our intelligence services work with the local communities to try and catch these guys out. But you still can't actually arrest them until they do something illegal, which is part of the problem of stopping this, they usually aren't the ones manufacturing explosives or actively threatening people. Just planting seeds of "fuck 'em up" in the heads of disillusioned people who turn to them.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52270332]You had me up until that point. I don't see how countries like Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark etc. can be considered racist.[/QUOTE] when you leave the metropolitan central cities, most european countries are still fucking terrified of non-whites. its literally only because you hear of the World Cities that you think other countries aren't racist. and fwiw i trust your authority at a glance that Ireland isn't racist if only because you live there but i would take it with a grain of salt still if i had to make a serious statement about it. [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52270335]well we should just ignore racism like we should terrorism and it will just go away.[/QUOTE] when did i say we should ignore terrorism you dozy tart? lol. i believe in taking action against terrorism, but domestic surveillance of people who have absolutely no connection with extremism (as we have [b]seen fucking happens[/b]) does nothing. it helps nothing. it just breeds distrust and fear. and for the record, no, i don't know exactly what we should do about terrorism, either. why? because i'm not a fucking armchair psychologist general tactician with pretensions to being a prime minister too.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270324]it's not "fake" but it's fucking outdated and incorrect to say that youre allowed to rant about killing whitey on the streets of London anymore as much as you're allowed to scream about killing blackie. like wtf is your point?[/quote] Outdated? The Vice documentary was from 2012 and the Channel 4 one is from 2016. Also I don't think you watched either video considering they never advocated for anything like "killing whitey" as that easily would get them arrested. They are very much aware of how to operate under the law. And the law is okay with a group of people demonstrating their opinion that democracy should be replaced with Sharia for example. I think you are really missing the point on why I posted the documentaries in the first place. I am trying demonstrate how well these groups can operate under the law with their views. So I was curious on why you consider yourself oppressed when these groups represent the extremes of views. [quote] youre pushing, once again, this stupid /pol/ agenda that the UK is wracked with anti-white, pro-islam pro-sharia sentiment. it really isnt. i can assure you. this country is [b]seriously[/b] fucking racist. just like the rest of Europe.[/QUOTE] I actually really don't think of the UK in that way or think like /pol/. Don't let the avatar fool you in that. Though I would like to point out that this has nothing to do with racism. I am purely trying to illustrate a point with how extreme views can function under the British government. The only exception is crossing a clear line of violence or support for a murderous militant group.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270341]when you leave the metropolitan central cities, most european countries are still fucking terrified of non-whites. its literally only because you hear of the World Cities that you think other countries aren't racist. and fwiw i trust your authority at a glance that Ireland isn't racist if only because you live there but i would take it with a grain of salt still if i had to make a serious statement about it. [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] when did i say we should ignore terrorism you dozy tart? lol. i believe in taking action against terrorism, but domestic surveillance of people who have absolutely no connection with extremism (as we have [b]seen fucking happens[/b]) does nothing. it helps nothing. it just breeds distrust and fear. and for the record, no, i don't know exactly what we should do about terrorism, either. why? because i'm not a fucking armchair psychologist general tactician with pretensions to being a prime minister too.[/QUOTE] domestic surveillance is a myth, the govt doesn't have the resources to keep track on your midget porn fetishes, it's implemented largely for more important things.

2012 was four fucking years ago, tudd. that's not recent anymore. [quote] I actually really don't think of the UK in that way or think like /pol/. Don't let the avatar fool you in that. [/quote] if you dont want to be mistaken for a /pol/ screeching racist maybe [b]don't only post about non-white people doing Bad Things and have a giant /pol/ meme avatar. jaysos.[/b] [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52270355]domestic surveillance is a myth, the govt doesn't have the resources to keep track on your midget porn fetishes, it's implemented largely for more important things.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_Kingdom#GCHQ_programmes[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCHQ[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)[/url] is the sand as hot for your head as it is up here today? because fucking hell its swelterin

[QUOTE=hexpunK;52270340]Sure if you want to take that as making excuses, you can. But you're not actually reading what I'm saying clearly. I'll simplify things; whilst content in the documentary may not be entirely incorrect, Channel 4 have everything to gain and nothing to lose by carefully editing things to seem worse than they are. They are not held to quite the same broadcasting standards as actually respected networks.[/quote] Please watch the documentary and tell which part could possibly edited malevolently. Most of it is long-winded interviews with no editing to be seen. [quote] Does this country have an issue with radical hate-preachers (of all kinds)? No more than the US does. Are they allowed to walk the streets? Yeah, probably would be in the US too because apparently insulting everybody is "free speech". Are we doing something about it? Yeah, our intelligence services work with the local communities to try and catch these guys out. But you still can't actually arrest them until they do something illegal, which is part of the problem of stopping this, they usually aren't the ones manufacturing explosives or actively threatening people. Just planting seeds of "fuck 'em up" in the heads of disillusioned people who turn to them.[/QUOTE] Actually I think your first statement could proven wrong. We actually have less incidents with hate preachers in the US and I like to think that our Middle Eastern immigrants assimilate far more than on average compared to the UK. I haven't heard of Sharia Neighborhood watches often in America for example. And again you illustrate the point I am trying to make with pissfuck. Here is a group that can do all the things you say they can do within the law and they can still function within the country. So why is Pissfuck's views oppressed then?

What are you all even arguing about? It seems like the last 2 pages have just been a cycle of the same few people adding absolutely nothing productive to this thread. If you want to have a debate, have a debate, but you need to actually argue your points and not get so defensive all the time. Keep it relevant to the topic too, who cares what Tudd's avatar is. If you feel like you're being exposed in an argument, it means you should probably tighten up what you're saying into more succinct points, maybe even provide sources to what you're saying.

[QUOTE=icemaz;52270371]What are you all even arguing about? It seems like the last 2 pages have just been a cycle of the same few people adding absolutely nothing productive to this thread. If you want to have a debate, have a debate, but you need to actually argue your points and not get so defensive all the time. Keep it relevant to the topic too, who cares what Tudd's avatar is. If you feel like you're being exposed in an argument, it means you should probably tighten up what you're saying into more succinct points, maybe even provide sources to what you're saying.[/QUOTE] i think im done arguing this roundabout anyway. ive had this before with a friend and i'll say it again: if you don't actually [b]want[/b] to change your mind about a subject, why get into a discourse with people and tell them to change your mind, when all you will do is just deflect?(@Bohemian)

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52270355]domestic surveillance is a myth, the govt doesn't have the resources to keep track on your midget porn fetishes, it's implemented largely for more important things.[/QUOTE] [URL]https://web.archive.org/web/20161018003035/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/17/uk-security-agencies-unlawfully-collected-data-for-decade[/URL] I guess mass surveillance is a spook or something, never mind the fact that the whole operation of mass data collection was deemed illegal according to the European human rights charter. :downs: And there was the time when they were also sharing big data with the USA from the Prism and Upstream surveillance ops, also shown to violate human rights concerns.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270359]2012 was four fucking years ago, tudd. that's not recent anymore.[/quote] What specifically has fundamentally changed to discount this documentaries contents then? And you still have a documentary from last year to talk about here with the same content. You are mad mate. Were debating if a extremist groups opinions are outdated by a factor of only 4 years. [quote] if you dont want to be mistaken for a /pol/ screeching racist maybe [b]don't only post about non-white people doing Bad Things and have a giant /pol/ meme avatar. jaysos.[/b][/quote] It is more like I really don't care what people think of me, but I am just pointing it out to you that I have views different than the consensus of /pol/ cause you repeatedly seem to think I only encompass those views.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270359]2012 was four fucking years ago, tudd. that's not recent anymore. if you dont want to be mistaken for a /pol/ screeching racist maybe [b]don't only post about non-white people doing Bad Things and have a giant /pol/ meme avatar. jaysos.[/b] [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_Kingdom#GCHQ_programmes[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCHQ[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)[/url] is the sand as hot for your head as it is up here today? because fucking hell its swelterin[/QUOTE] firstly this proves that the tory government are being more transparent than previous govt's and also that mass surveilance exists not to keep an eye on the average joe as this would be completely pointless or are you going to enlighten me with some kind of conspiracy i am unaware of. [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52270378][URL]https://web.archive.org/web/20161018003035/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/17/uk-security-agencies-unlawfully-collected-data-for-decade[/URL] I guess mass surveillance is a spook or something, never mind the fact that the whole operation of mass data collection was deemed illegal according to the European human rights charter. :downs: And there was the time when they were also sharing big data with the USA from the Prism and Upstream surveillance ops, also shown to violate human rights concerns.[/QUOTE] so the tory govt are not actually breaking new ground then?

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270374]i think im done arguing this roundabout anyway. ive had this before with a friend and i'll say it again: if you don't actually [b]want[/b] to change your mind about a subject, why get into a discourse with people and tell them to change your mind, when all you will do is just deflect?(@Bohemian)[/QUOTE] Maybe you can learn at least why people think the way they do? I don't agree with either you or Tudd in this discussion, but at least Tudd provides reasons for the things he thinks whereas you said things like: [QUOTE=Pissfuck;52270324]this country is [b]seriously[/b] fucking racist. just like the rest of Europe.[/QUOTE] With no source, and which as far as I can tell is just absolutely patently untrue. After a tragedy like this, the people of Manchester of all faiths and cultures came together and did some amazing things. You are looking at the minority of people thinking this entire country is racist, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Sometimes take a step back, and see that the people which make up this country are some incredible human beings, just like in many other countries. You are feeling that same fear which people like UK Bohemian feel towards the minority of extremist belief holders. Be better than that dude.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52270368]Please watch the documentary and tell which part could possibly edited malevolently. Most of it is long-winded interviews with no editing to be seen.[/quote] Literally can't watch it because it's owned by a company that operates from here so Youtube blocks it, and I don't particularly like piracy even if it's against a group I hate. So that's out of the window. [quote]Actually I think your first statement could proven wrong. We actually have less incidents with hate preachers in the US and I like to think that our Middle Eastern immigrants assimilate far more than on average compared to the UK. I haven't heard of Sharia Neighborhood watches often in America for example. And again you illustrate the point I am trying to make with pissfuck. Here is a group that can do all the things you say they can do within the law and they can still function within the country. So why is Pissfuck's views oppressed then?[/QUOTE] Oh please, the US has issues with Christian hate groups preaching for the death of gays, backwards hicks rallying around their hatred of black people (one in particular, name rhymes with "yo mamma"), you almost certainly have the same issue with radical Islamists as we do, considering you've also suffered similar attacks, but considering how fucking hardline Christian most of the US is it's likely easier to bury them under Jesus. "Sharia watches" are severely overblown and tend to get put the fuck down by actual police because unsurprisingly, attempting to enforce "law" on others isn't something that flies here. Another massively overblown "threat" from the right-wing media in this country that is lapped up by those unwilling to actually look around them. Much like your precious "no-go zones" narrative. [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trump-london-no-go-zones-radicalised-woolwich-reddit-video-a6766511.html[/url] The Muslim community in the country largely disapproves of any of these groups that have popped up, with support coming from other extremist or radical groups themselves. [editline]edit[/editline] The police response to any of these groups that do appear would probably be more effective if we didn't have a government that insists on gutting every public service in power too. Kinda hard to justify sending some bobbies around to tell some Muslims to shut up when the force is busy stopping active threats.

[url=http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/manchester-concert-explosion/ariana-grande-suspends-tour-after-manchester-bombing-n764201]Ariana Grande will be heading home for a bit and has cancelled tour dates up to June 5th.[/url] There's also some rumors floating around her camp has gotten in contact with the families of victims to cover funeral expenses but as of now [url=http://www.snopes.com/ariana-grande-pay-manchester-bombing-funerals/]Snopes says it was started by a fan site[/url].

[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news"]NY times[/URL], released leak photos of the suspected backpack and pieces of shrapnel from the blast. Images are SFW [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] UK expresses "Fury" over second leak. [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40038630"]-BBC-[/URL]

wow the US press are really fucking it up. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40038630[/url] at least wait until things are investigated before you publish blood-laced nails and clothing... jesus

[QUOTE=AK'z;52271052]wow the US press are really fucking it up. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40038630[/url] at least wait until things are investigated before you publish blood-laced nails and clothing... jesus[/QUOTE] US press is terrible in general. They're focused on shock value, ratings, and entertainment. They have more in common with the ESPN than actual news.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52270355]domestic surveillance is a myth, the govt doesn't have the resources to keep track on your midget porn fetishes, it's implemented largely for more important things.[/QUOTE] If people thought US surveillance was massive, then they haven't seen the scale of UK surveillance, its a completely different league.

-snip- offtopic