[UK] Explosion at Manchester Arena -- 22 dead + 50 Injured - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52263190]this is everyone's* fault *everyone in the cultural, noospherical sense, not individual sense[/QUOTE] hate feeds into hate, blame feeds into blame, and this shit will never stop unless we find some way to admit that every group has problems even then it will probably never stop, people will keep dying because others think it is for the best.

Look, I'm not trying to undermine what happened tonight. It was fucking horrible. It was a monstrous act by a person who had become monstrous himself, very likely in the name of a monstrous, extreme ideology. You will never, ever catch me trying to say that Islamic Extremism isn't a problem, or that the acts perpetrated in the name of it aren't tragic and disgusting. Just, please, don't make a horrible situation even worse by projecting the hatred, fear, and outrage you're feeling right now on to the wrong people.

[QUOTE=Kiwi;52263262]To submit my two cents and throw some anecdotal experiences to support this almost all Muslims are not extremists and all they want is peace. I debated this years ago and there was something very similar. Muslims blamed for the attack when this is just the work of one individual mind who isn't ticking right and goes extreme. ... [/QUOTE] It's also [URL="http://www.pewforum.org/2009/12/17/little-support-for-terrorism-among-muslim-americans/"]statistically backed up [/URL] that the majority of Muslims are feeling just as sad/mad as anyone else is right now. We only associate terrorism right now with Muslims as that's what's effected us the most on western soil, we still have Christian and even Buddhist extremism and terrorism round the world that we don't hear about cause it's happening in places like Africa and Sri Lanka which get little coverage. Terrorism isn't some sort of abnormality brought only from the Islamic faith, it's the last resort of a mind poisoned by anger and hate, which can happen to any person.

[QUOTE=Tarver;52263047]That doesnt make them not victims of Islamophobia[/QUOTE] ...do you genuinely believe what you're saying? Also man. I wonder how the west is going to react this time. This was (presumably, it's all but 100% confirmed) an islamist attack specifically targeting children and families. I can't help but feel this is going to be the red line for most people.

Why is it that every terrorist attack ends up being a discussion about defending non radical muslims? All you need is one person criticising islam and suddenly everyone jumps on his tits like they don't understand that criticizing islam =/= attacking all muslims personally. What I'm more worried about is the effect this attack will have, and it makes me sad to think that in europe these attacks have become separated by months and not years.

I really hope this turns out to not be a terrorist attack considering it's still "suspected" just so people stop talking about bloody Muslims. Not just here, but everywhere. Facebook is plastered in it. Though it very likely is let's be honest.

[QUOTE=Sumap;52263295]It's also [URL="http://www.pewforum.org/2009/12/17/little-support-for-terrorism-among-muslim-americans/"]statistically backed up [/URL] that the majority of Muslims are feeling just as sad/mad as anyone else is right now. We only associate terrorism right now with Muslims as that's what's effected us the most on western soil, we still have Christian and even Buddhist extremism and terrorism round the world that we don't hear about cause it's happening in places like Africa and Sri Lanka which get little coverage. Terrorism isn't some sort of abnormality brought only from the Islamic faith, it's the last resort of a mind poisoned by anger and hate, which can happen to any person. If tonight needs anything less, it's hate.[/QUOTE] A majority of muslim americans you mean. It is also an undeniable fact that a majority of terror attacks across the globe are caused by islamic extremists, and by a wide margin. Much like how some people assume that these types of terror attacks brandishes all muslims as evil, you are assuming that the existence of moderate muslims means that you can't criticize islam.

[QUOTE=wewt!;52263470]A majority of muslim americans you mean. It is also an undeniable fact that a majority of terror attacks across the globe are caused by islamic extremists, and by a wide margin. Much like how some people assume that these types of terror attacks brandishes all muslims as evil, you are assuming that the existence of moderate muslims means that you can't criticize islam.[/QUOTE] he hasn't even said you can't criticize islam

Are these people super unlucky? Everyone keeps ranting about how it's more likely to be struck by lightning than be involved in a terror attack. This is why I get anxious.

[QUOTE=TheGronk;52263491]Are these people super unlucky? Everyone keeps ranting about how it's more likely to be struck by lightning than be involved in a terror attack. This is why I get anxious.[/QUOTE] Think about how many events happen at a place like this, and how many people go there every single year, and how many years nothing like this has happened there. It's tragic, but it's (thankfully) rare. Hopefully it'll be even more so in the near future. Fear is how the terrorists win.

Unfortunately. The death toll has risen from 19 to 22. [media]https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/866898499241209856[/media]

[QUOTE=TheGronk;52263491]Are these people super unlucky? Everyone keeps ranting about how it's more likely to be struck by lightning than be involved in a terror attack. This is why I get anxious.[/QUOTE] the chances of you being involved in a terrorist attack are extremely low considering you live in Australia so don't worry about it

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52263501]Think about how many events happen at a place like this, and how many people go there every single year, and how many years nothing like this has happened there. It's tragic, but it's (thankfully) rare. Hopefully it'll be even more so in the near future. Fear is how the terrorists win.[/QUOTE] Well yeah, terrorists can't perform terrorism if they don't incite terror. Things blowing up (un)intentionally is pretty terrifying especially in a location like a stadium. ISIS could coordinate mass bombings around the world and statistics would say it's unlikely. Statistics can't determine how a group of humans work, they're just too random. It's our stupid way of fortune-telling with a "maybe" at the end of each guess.

[QUOTE=Gary D;52263503]Unfortunately. The death toll has risen from 19 to 22. [media]https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/866898499241209856[/media][/QUOTE] BBC Breakfast reporting 59 injured, 22 dead. fuck me.

[QUOTE=mchapra;52263475]he hasn't even said you can't criticize islam[/QUOTE] You're misunderstanding it but frankly that doesn't make any of the 22 victims less dead so I'm just going to drop it.

It fucking irritates me when events like this pop up and people start referring to everyone who offers their condolences as "virtue signalling". You're literally just stigmatizing empathy when you do this. There's no obvious solution to this shit. Everyone is clueless on how exactly we can stop it. Offering their sympathy is all people feel like they can do sometimes.

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52263541]It fucking irritates me when events like this pop up and people start referring to everyone who offers their condolences as "virtue signalling". You're literally just stigmatizing empathy when you do this. There's no obvious solution to this shit. Everyone is clueless on how exactly we can stop it. Offering their sympathy is all people feel like they can do sometimes.[/QUOTE] Truth is you really can't stop shit like this unless the ideologies used by terror groups gain no traction, and people address the root causes of terrorism. It's a complicated problem that has, as you've mentioned, no practical permanent solutions. In a world as vast as ours it's impossible to stop every brainwashed fanatic/angry person from slipping past the radar to do his or her damage. All you can literally do is show sympathy towards the victims, don't fall for the cycle of hatred terror groups try to incite to drive a wedge between Muslims and other people, and teach others to do the same. The rest of it gets done, of course, by those members of the police and internal security agencies that do their best to stop these people from perpetrating these vile murders for the sake of their bullshit ideology.

Danish media just said that explosives were used, but I don't seem to be able to find any confirmation of that. Is there actually a confirmed explosive charge being detonated or are people still too busy arguing about religion?

this is fucking horrible, i could just imagine being near the blast and how terrifying and unreal it must've been for everybody involved, not just near the ground zero of the explosion, but to everybody who was affected's families as well. and i can't even imagine the burden ariana has to bear on her back. hope shes doing well too

[QUOTE=Crimor;52263560]Danish media just said that explosives were used, but I don't seem to be able to find any confirmation of that. Is there actually a confirmed explosive charge being detonated or are people still too busy arguing about religion?[/QUOTE] [quote=CNN]"The attacker, I can confirm, died at the arena. We believe the attacker was carrying an improvised explosive device, which he detonated, causing this atrocity," said Chief Constable Ian Hopkins.[/quote] source: [url]http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/22/europe/manchester-arena-incident/[/url] the rounds going on believe a nail bomb or something similar was used

Jesus fuck those last 3 pages were messy. Still in disbelief over what has happened, way too close to home.

[QUOTE=Crimor;52263560]Danish media just said that explosives were used, but I don't seem to be able to find any confirmation of that. Is there actually a confirmed explosive charge being detonated or are people still too busy arguing about religion?[/QUOTE] It was confirmed to be a suicide bomber awhile ago I recall. [I]Possibly[/I] with a bomb filled with shrapnel.

This guy just committed the fastest career suicide I have ever seen. [t]http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/embed/public/2017/05/22/david-leavitt-twitter-screenshot.JPG[/t] [media]https://twitter.com/David_Leavitt/status/866791381225918466[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/David_Leavitt/status/866811524391854080[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/David_Leavitt/status/866820610869137412[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/David_Leavitt/status/866889180512739328[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/David_Leavitt/status/866900677875965952[/media] [url]http://www.ibtimes.com/who-david-leavitt-journalist-jokes-about-ariana-grandes-music-after-manchester-blast-2542372[/url] [url]http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/freelance-journalist-david-leavitt-causes-outrage-with-insensitive-tweet-following-terror-attack/news-story/53cf8693d00564f0914b3bed1e2c7197[/url] Way to stay classy as a Journalist.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52263643]This guy just committed career suicide. Way to stay classy as a Journalist.[/QUOTE] I mean humor is the way we cope with things but the guy sperging out for 3 more tweets going haha this is humor get it friends just makes it cringy and horrible

[QUOTE=Tudd;52263643]This guy just committed the fastest career suicide I have ever seen. [t]http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/embed/public/2017/05/22/david-leavitt-twitter-screenshot.JPG[/t][/QUOTE] I sincerely hope so because this cretin certainly deserves it.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52263686]I sincerely hope so because this cretin certainly deserves it.[/QUOTE] [media]https://twitter.com/axs/status/866831167122755586[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/cbsboston/status/866832520251355136[/media] Apparently CBS also has scrubbed him off their website already. [url]http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VbclRWZVjJgJ:boston.cbslocal.com/tag/david-leavitt/+&cd=24&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us[/url] One of his articles for reference. [url]http://boston.cbslocal.com/top-lists/bostons-best-places-to-buy-vintage-video-games-accessories/[/url] [b]EDIT[/b] This guy is really going to need to change his Twitter Bio now. [media]https://twitter.com/CBSNewsPress/status/866823030693122048[/media]

That dude is a dick and has tasteless sense in humor. Good riddance. Back on topic, my heart goes out to the victims - especially the children.

why concerts man... why a fucking concert hall with kids :-(

[QUOTE=Tudd;52263643]Twitter twat [/QUOTE] He deleted the tweet because people 'asked' him too, not because it was completely heartless. Hope he never comes to Manchester the fucking shit head

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52263131]With each horrifying terrorist attack, that narrative is proven "true." Massive surges of anti-Muslim hysteria rise up in the wake of the tragedy, and vast swathes of innocent people find themselves harassed, marginalized, hated, and feared for things that they had absolutely nothing to do with. Each time, a fractional percentage of the population finds themselves pushed closer and closer towards violent extremist ideology. On a macro level, we're not talking about a switch, but a dial. Every passing year, every new wave of hatred, turns the dial a little bit more, increasing the pressure. Eventually, small swathes of Muslims begin to internalize that hatred and fear, and slowly find themselves beginning to see violent extremism as a sad necessity. Extremist recruiters, from ISIS or other groups, seek to find the people who have begun to embrace increasingly hostile feelings towards the West, and turn them to their own violent purposes. And thus the cycle repeats, inciting a new wave of hatred and hysteria, and a new generation of people being pushed to the brink of extremism in response to it.[/QUOTE] In regards to this line of thought, I find myself wondering about something... As you say, in the wake of each terrorist attack, public sentiment becomes further inflamed and [B]indeed[/B] innocent people do suffer. But this is the important part - innocent people, not [I][I]just[/I][/I] innocent muslims. This appears to be a recurring sleight of word in the matter if broaching the subject the way you do. Innocent muslims suffering from prejudice that arises [I]after[/I] the people who have just been forced to suffer loved ones blown up due to prejudice. It's a simple manifestation of fear, uncertainty and doubt. It's people being afraid and angry because their loved ones and friends are getting killed in recurring, increasingly bold terrorist attacks and at the end of the day, these grieving people are the ones who are told to stand down, calm down and not do anything about anything. Those who are vocal about their increasing worries are told to deal with it, as apparently people close to you getting killed in religiously fueled attacks are now "part and parcel" of everyday life in major cities. When, in your own words, would you say is it appropriate to also include the indigenous peoples' safety in the bigger picture? Your dial analogy, for example, is particularly disconcerting. It [B]also applies word-for-word for the indigenous peoples of Europe[/B]. [QUOTE]Every passing year, every new wave of hatred, turns the dial a little bit more, increasing the pressure. Eventually, small swathes of Muslims begin to internalize that hatred and fear, and slowly find themselves beginning to see violent extremism as a sad necessity. Extremist recruiters, from ISIS or other groups, seek to find the people who have begun to embrace increasingly hostile feelings towards the West, and turn them to their own violent purposes. And thus the cycle repeats, inciting a new wave of hatred and hysteria, and a new generation of people being pushed to the brink of extremism in response to it.[/QUOTE] Apply a few simple changes: [QUOTE]Every passing year, every new wave of hatred, turns the dial a little bit more, increasing the pressure. Eventually, small swathes of Europeans begin to internalize that hatred and fear, and slowly find themselves beginning to see violent extremism as a sad necessity. Extremist recruiters, from PEGIDA or other groups, seek to find the people who have begun to embrace increasingly hostile feelings towards the Middle East, and turn them to their own violent purposes. And thus the cycle repeats, inciting a new wave of hatred and hysteria, and a new generation of people being pushed to the brink of extremism in response to it.[/QUOTE] In the end, the victims of terrorist attacks have also had no part in whatever causes extremism to flare up unless living a peaceful, civilized life is exactly what is causing the extremism to manifest for whatever reason. Am I understanding your viewpoint correctly? Correct me if I'm wrong: telling the grievers to suck it up and not be angry is a good, viable solution? I wholly understand your concerns of innocent muslims getting caught in the crossfire, and as history has shown, they unfortunately do. However, this doesn't even address the underlying issue of indigenous European people already being in the crossfire whenever another venue explodes or a truck plows through a crowd. So when would you extend a supportive hand to the Europeans, instead of telling them to "not make the muslims angry, or they might do it again!"? I am genuinely interested in how you, or anyone else here, would approach this issue. This is a problem that is approaching critical mass with every new attack, every new handful of dead civilians. This problem will not go anywhere if you ignore it, and it most certainly won't disappear if you close your eyes and wish it away. How would you see this pressure alleviated [I]without[/I] resorting to media/opinion warfare to suppress dissenting opinions. Without labeling people who are sincerely worried about the state of affairs a "racist" or "-phobe". How?