CC holder drops gun in a "no-gun zone" hospital; discharges and injures random patient - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;52331269]I honestly thought .22 derringers were illegal. I remember my father talking to his friends about what a stupid gun it was when I was a kid, and how it was no big loss that they'd been outlawed. I guess it was a city ordinance banning them or something.[/QUOTE] Only in Maryland for Derringers that fired .44 mag and .38 cal IIRC [editline]8th June 2017[/editline] Literal assassin guns at that point. [editline]8th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Judas;52331116]how about you come say that to my face irl not online see what happens? [img]https://i.imgur.com/ZugOmUV.png[/img][/QUOTE] We really do have a gun problem in this country if you are allowed to own one.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52331410]We really do have a gun problem in this country if you are allowed to own one.[/QUOTE] I mean, owning one is one thing. It'd make for a decent range-toy, I think, though not much more. Carrying one on the other hand...

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52331410]Only in Maryland for Derringers that fired .44 mag and .38 cal IIRC [editline]8th June 2017[/editline] Literal assassin guns at that point. [editline]8th June 2017[/editline] We really do have a gun problem in this country if you are allowed to own one.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo18/UncleJimmema/IMG_20170608_233623223.jpg[/img] This is 'Merica baby

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52331471]-photo of German pistol- This is 'Merica baby[/QUOTE] :goodjob:

America is a nation of immigrants. Even that gun counts as one

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52331471][img]http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo18/UncleJimmema/IMG_20170608_233623223.jpg[/img] This is 'Merica baby[/QUOTE] [img]https://i.gyazo.com/1abf05752afe2e9b571ca2e0a0449462.png[/img] Two can play at this game

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

[QUOTE=butre;52328573]we have 2 different carry permit, the basic one that lets you cc in all the normal places minus places with signage prohibiting it, and one with much more stringent requirements that allows you to carry literally anywhere except federal prisons and airplanes going out of state the worst they can actually get you for if you carry someplace with signage is trespassing unless it's a govt building. [editline]8th June 2017[/editline] also she was carrying an unsafe gun. no gun made in the past half a century will!fire when dropped unless something is seriously wrong with it[/QUOTE] both permits are at the location's discretion. Majority of businesses have a "no firearms unless law enforcement." from what I've seen down here and idiots like this woman have been acting like children over this by saying they have the right by state law.

[QUOTE=timothy80;52331681]both permits are at the location's discretion. Majority of businesses have a "no firearms unless law enforcement." from what I've seen down here and idiots like this woman have been acting like children over this by saying they have the right by state law.[/QUOTE] like I said, it's only a tresspassing charge in that case. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] also she doesn't even need a ccw to carry it in her purse. we have constitutional carry that pretty much only forbids mexican carry and pocket carry

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52331562][IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/1abf05752afe2e9b571ca2e0a0449462.png[/IMG] Two can play at this game[/QUOTE] [thumb]https://puu.sh/wf8Qw/cf9edd1b8c.jpg[/thumb] I've got you in my sights.

[QUOTE=Judas;52331116]how about you come say that to my face irl not online see what happens? [img]https://i.imgur.com/ZugOmUV.png[/img][/QUOTE] Is there anything blocking the hammer from causing the pin to hit a round if you were to drop that thing on the hammer? Like something that's found in glocks where the trigger has to be pulled to open the space for the firing pin to strike the primer of a bullet?

Imagine the thought process of thinking its a good idea to carry in a hospital.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52332517]Imagine the thought process of thinking its a good idea to carry in a hospital.[/QUOTE] Whats the logical argument behind hospitals being a bad place to carry? Thus far I've only ever heard emotional ones.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52332637]Whats the logical argument behind hospitals being a bad place to carry? Thus far I've only ever heard emotional ones.[/QUOTE] They're places where people go for medical attention and to rest and recover. A weapon made for harming and killing has absolutely [I]no[/I] right to be anywhere near one.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332649]They're places where people go for medical attention and to rest and recover. A weapon made for harming and killing has absolutely [I]no[/I] right to be anywhere near one.[/QUOTE] This is true. My Sig, especially when properly secured in a holster with good retention, just radiates feel bad rays. It makes you have diarrhea, miscarriages, causes general physical pain, and accelerates cancer growth [I]just by being inside the building.[/I]

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332649]They're places where people go for medical attention and to rest and recover. A weapon made for harming and killing has absolutely [I]no[/I] right to be anywhere near one.[/QUOTE] He asked for a non-emotional argument. The reason is that hospitals are a situation in which stressed people congregate and stress causes even people trained with guns to make mistakes. In a hospital, those mistakes have a much higher than usual chance of being fatal. Only hospital personnel should be carrying inside the hospital. Hospitals are obvious targets for attack and there's no reason for them to be defenseless, but guests and patients should not be armed.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52332671]He asked for a non-emotional argument. The reason is that hospitals are a situation in which stressed people congregate and stress causes even people trained with guns to make mistakes. In a hospital, those mistakes have a much higher than usual chance of being fatal. Only hospital personnel should be carrying inside the hospital.[/QUOTE] How was that emotional. A place where sick people go to get better should be as conducive an environment for recovery as possible. Allowing weapons on the premises goes against that.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332677]How was that emotional. A place where sick people go to get better should be as conducive an environment for recovery as possible. Allowing weapons on the premises goes against that.[/QUOTE] Because firearms are inert lumps of steel until put in the hands of an incompetent or a criminal. They do not spring to life on their own and seek out innocents to victimize. "Firearms are evil tools of death and can only be used for horrible things" is an emotionally-rooted mischaracterization. Hospitals are obvious targets for attacks as they are full of defenseless and weakened people, so permitting the staff to carry means they can do something if the worst should happen. Hospitals are not conducive environments for recovery if they are being attacked or threatened. I have a lot of friends who are in this field and almost all of them carry in their workplace.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52332681]Because firearms are inert lumps of steel until put in the hands of an incompetent or a criminal. They do not spring to life on their own and seek out innocents to victimize. "Firearms are evil tools of death and can only be used for horrible things" is an emotionally-rooted mischaracterization. Hospitals are obvious targets for attacks as they are full of defenseless and weakened people, so permitting the staff to carry means they can do something if the worst should happen.[/QUOTE] Weapons enable people to harm others with far greater ease than otherwise possible. Armed guards are a different story, we were talking about allowing people in general to carry in a hospital.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332687]Weapons enable people to harm others with far greater ease than otherwise possible. Armed guards are a different story, we were talking about allowing people in general to carry in a hospital.[/QUOTE] [quote]A weapon made for harming and killing has absolutely no right to be anywhere near one.[/quote] Aren't these your words? These would apply to the M.D. carrying a sidearm, wouldn't they? I have made my stance clear in this thread that I don't think randoms should be carrying weapons in hospitals, but the staff has the right and a reason to be armed.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332649]They're places where people go for medical attention and to rest and recover. A weapon made for harming and killing has absolutely [I]no[/I] right to be anywhere near one.[/QUOTE] Thanks for providing me with an emotional argument when I specifically asked you not to provide one. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332677]How was that emotional. A place where sick people go to get better should be as conducive an environment for recovery as possible. Allowing weapons on the premises goes against that.[/QUOTE] What you just described is an emotional argument.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52332690]Aren't these your words? These would apply to the M.D. carrying a sidearm, wouldn't they? I have made my stance clear in this thread that I don't think randoms should be carrying weapons in hospitals, but the staff has the right and a reason to be armed.[/QUOTE] Given the thrust of the news article, I assumed that we were talking about letting the general public carry weapons in a hospital. The only staff that should be allowed to be armed are trained security guards. Doctors and nurses, whose sole job should be caring for patients and ensuring their wellbeing, have no business doing that.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52332711]Thanks for providing me with an emotional argument when I specifically asked you not to provide one. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] What you just described is an emotional argument.[/QUOTE] how was it emotional?

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52332711]Thanks for providing me with an emotional argument when I specifically asked you not to provide one. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] What you just described is an emotional argument.[/QUOTE] Just because an argument makes you emotional doesn't mean it's an emotional argument.

[QUOTE=norzone;52332245][thumb]https://puu.sh/wf8Qw/cf9edd1b8c.jpg[/thumb] I've got you in my sights.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/vgPhL86.jpg[/img] this is my concealed carry in the UK

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332716]Given the thrust of the news article, I assumed that we were talking about letting the general public carry weapons in a hospital. The only staff that should be allowed to be armed are trained security guards. Doctors and nurses, whose sole job should be caring for patients and ensuring their wellbeing, have no business doing that.[/QUOTE] If someone is attempting to murder the patient in question and the M.D. draws a weapon on the attacker in defense, does that not fall under caring for the patient & ensuring the patient's wellbeing? You might be surprised how violent things can get in hospitals even on a normal day, let alone if there's a targeted attack unfolding.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52332771]If someone is attempting to murder the patient in question and the M.D. draws a weapon on the attacker in defense, does that not fall under caring for the patient & ensuring the patient's wellbeing? You might be surprised how violent things can get in hospitals even on a normal day, let alone if there's a targeted attack unfolding.[/QUOTE] That is a fringe case that is already covered by the presence of security guards. If violence is really [i]that[/i] big a problem in the hospital, the correct response is to hire more guards, improve security at the entrance, and review visitation policies. Arming doctors and nurses makes patients uneasy and escalates tensions between medical staff and the patients they're supposed to treat and helps no one in the long run.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332794]That is a fringe case that is already covered by the presence of security guards. If violence is really [i]that[/i] big a problem in the hospital, the correct response is to hire more guards, improve security at the entrance, and review visitation policies. Arming doctors and nurses makes patients uneasy and escalates tensions between medical staff and the patients they're supposed to treat and helps no one in the long run.[/QUOTE] I don't know how to answer this except to say that it doesn't, since most of the medical personnel I know carry and have no problems. My EMT buddy has had to shoot someone and would be dead if he didn't have his weapon. I won't be swayed by this argument. In your country people understandably get nervous at the sight of a weapon since they are not common(?) in [del]Poland[/del] Singapore. It's not the same here. e: get a new flag I always think Singapore is Poland :v:

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332794]That is a fringe case that is already covered by the presence of security guards. If violence is really [i]that[/i] big a problem in the hospital, the correct response is to hire more guards, improve security at the entrance, and review visitation policies. Arming doctors and nurses makes patients uneasy and escalates tensions between medical staff and the patients they're supposed to treat and helps no one in the long run.[/QUOTE] Dunno dude. My mother kept her CC in her purse when she worked at the hospital before her current one for ~20 years, since it was a HUGE complex with massive parking garages and lots and about a 5 minute drive or 15 minute walk from what used to be a very shitty area. It'd be impractical as hell to try to have paul blart keeping an eye on all of that when she was leaving to her car at night. Plenty of nurses did this, including her boss at the time, along with people who kept stun guns and pepper spray. None of them ever needed them, thankfully, but they were available if they did, which is the idea. I will probably never need my gun or my first aid kit I keep in my truck, but they're there if I need them. And since my gun is secured, it's about as dangerous as the first aid kit if I dont take it out, honestly. I don't see how a nurse or doctor having a CC weapon thats hidden away in a locker when they're on duty would make people feel unsafe. You're gonna have to elaborate on that. Carrying on duty is a different thing, I wouldn't mind personally if I was the patient and noticed a nurse or doc with a concealed ankle holster or something but I can see that not being a thing everyone would be alright with. Now that I mention it, I remember her telling me the nurse desk at the country clinic she used to volunteer at had a couple shotguns under it for crackhead or bear deterrence. :v: Don't think those ever got used. On people, at least.

[QUOTE=kilerabv;52332730]how was it emotional?[/QUOTE] Because he feels that guns are bad so they have no place in or near hospitals. There is no logic in the argument because guns are inanimate objects. A competent person isn't going to be a risk to anyone, nor will the gun they carry. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332750]Just because an argument makes you emotional doesn't mean it's an emotional argument.[/QUOTE] No, but what youre providing me is an argument based on your feelings. You [i]feel [/i] guns are bad so they shouldn't be around hurt people. Theres no logic behind your argument at all. Thats why your argument is an emotional one and not a logical one. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332794]That is a fringe case that is already covered by the presence of security guards. If violence is really [i]that[/i] big a problem in the hospital, the correct response is to hire more guards, improve security at the entrance, and review visitation policies. Arming doctors and nurses makes patients uneasy and escalates tensions between medical staff and the patients they're supposed to treat and helps no one in the long run.[/QUOTE] So armed security guards wont make patients uneasy but armed medical staff will? What are you basing this on?