CC holder drops gun in a "no-gun zone" hospital; discharges and injures random patient - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52332969]Because he feels that guns are bad so they have no place in or near hospitals. There is no logic in the argument because guns are inanimate objects. A competent person isn't going to be a risk to anyone, nor will the gun they carry. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] No, but what youre providing me is an argument based on your feelings. You [i]feel [/i] guns are bad so they shouldn't be around hurt people. Theres no logic behind your argument at all. Thats why your argument is an emotional one and not a logical one. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] So armed security guards wont make patients uneasy but armed medical staff will? What are you basing this on?[/QUOTE] *she. I didn't say anything about guns. I said weapons. And security guards aren't responsible for patient care, nor do they directly interact with patients.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332996]*she. I didn't say anything about guns. I said weapons. And security guards aren't responsible for patient care, nor do they directly interact with patients.[/QUOTE] Ok, doesnt make your argument less emotional. And you still havent given me a basis as to why people are fine with armed security but not armed medical staff. Their firearms would be concealed anyways, so they wouldn't be able to figure out theyre armed unless they have a keen eye.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;52332753][img]http://i.imgur.com/vgPhL86.jpg[/img] this is my concealed carry in the UK[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/T9EyjcW.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52333008]Ok, doesnt make your argument less emotional. And you still havent given me a basis as to why people are fine with armed security but not armed medical staff. Their firearms would be concealed anyways, so they wouldn't be able to figure out theyre armed unless they have a keen eye.[/QUOTE] I already said why, please see the last sentence of the post you responded to.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52333026]I already said why, please see the last sentence of the post you responded to.[/QUOTE] That still doesn't justify your argument lol. Your whole argument is youre assuming Americans wont be comfortable with doctors concealed carrying on the job, despite millions of Americans concealed carrying, millions of police officers openly carrying, and thousands of gun shops in the US openly selling firearms to people. Youre providing no basis for your argument other than an unbacked assumption. Youre still arguing against firearms and weapons in general because you have emotional bias against them, not a logical one.

[QUOTE=NitronikALT;52328510]Yes, it's a small and easy to conceal pistol [t]http://cdn3.volusion.com/qspru.vgmck/v/vspfiles/photos/COB-C22SP-2.jpg?1395586111[/t][/QUOTE] Derringers look like they're designed to go off when you don't want them to. If you're not going to have a trigger guard at least have some kind of block so it requires proper pressure to fire and a sudden jolt won't set it off.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52332794]That is a fringe case that is already covered by the presence of security guards. If violence is really [i]that[/i] big a problem in the hospital, the correct response is to hire more guards, improve security at the entrance, and review visitation policies. Arming doctors and nurses makes patients uneasy and escalates tensions between medical staff and the patients they're supposed to treat and helps no one in the long run.[/QUOTE] if a doc or a nurse is properly concealed carrying the patients would never even know they were armed [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] anecdotally, i wouldn't feel uneasy at all if i saw my doc openly carrying a gun on their hip. if anything i'd ask them what they were carrying

Having a gun doesn't make you want to hurt people. If a doctor wanted to harm his patients he has any number of tools at his disposal to do so. He doesn't need a gun to kill his patients. So why would it make you uncomfortable for a doctor to be carrying a gun unless you just had an irrational fear of guns themselves? Guns are only as dangerous as the person carrying them. If you think your doctor would kill you with a gun, why the fuck would you let them inject you with something?

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52332637]Whats the logical argument behind hospitals being a bad place to carry? Thus far I've only ever heard emotional ones.[/QUOTE] Hospital should not be a place for carrying firearms due to the possible mental unrest that place can bring (which also might bring the point that any psychologically unstable person should not carry a weapon, period.). If there is any conflict in a hospital enviroment, guns should not be part of the equation. Furthermore, in the event that a weapon gets discharged inside a hospital, it could have an interaction with hospital equipment such as flammable gases and sensitive equipment and even the patients themselves (most commonly people with heart diseases). The only personnel that should be allowed to carry a weapon is a security officer and not all types of weapons (and if any at all in some psych institutions). Does this count as non-emotional for you? [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52333965]anecdotally, i wouldn't feel uneasy at all if i saw my doc openly carrying a gun on their hip. if anything i'd ask them what they were carrying[/QUOTE] I wouldn't feel any ease to see my doc with a gun dangling from his hip. There is a time, place and people to carry guns.

[QUOTE=Kinky Frog;52334206]Hospital should not be a place for carrying firearms due to the possible mental unrest that place can bring (which also might bring the point that any psychologically unstable person should not carry a weapon, period.). If there is any conflict in a hospital enviroment, guns should not be part of the equation. Furthermore, in the event that a weapon gets discharged inside a hospital, it could have an interaction with hospital equipment such as flammable gases and sensitive equipment and even the patients themselves (most commonly people with heart diseases). The only personnel that should be allowed to carry a weapon is a security officer and not all types of weapons (and if any at all in some psych institutions). Does this count as non-emotional for you? I wouldn't feel any ease to see my doc with a gun dangling from his hip. There is a time, place and people to carry guns.[/QUOTE] it counts as mental gymnastics to justify an emotional argument. there's no flammable gasses in a hospital that a bullet can set off and even if there were your average hospital has some really incredible fire suppression systems. I value my life over some lump of plastic and metal no matter how expensive that lump may be. if someone with a heart disease has a heart attack because my gun went off why wouldn't they have one because my attacker's gun went off? besides that they're in a hospital, pretty much the best case scenario for a heart attack victim. mental unrest? we're talking about a country where the majority of the population has been using guns since they were kids. do you really think someone who's been carrying a gun for the past 50 years is going to experience mental unrest because they see something they've had experience with their entire life?

[QUOTE=Kinky Frog;52334206]Hospital should not be a place for carrying firearms due to the possible mental unrest that place can bring (which also might bring the point that any psychologically unstable person should not carry a weapon, period.). If there is any conflict in a hospital enviroment, guns should not be part of the equation. Furthermore, in the event that a weapon gets discharged inside a hospital, it could have an interaction with hospital equipment such as flammable gases and sensitive equipment and even the patients themselves (most commonly people with heart diseases). The only personnel that should be allowed to carry a weapon is a security officer and not all types of weapons (and if any at all in some psych institutions). Does this count as non-emotional for you? I wouldn't feel any ease to see my doc with a gun dangling from his hip. There is a time, place and people to carry guns.[/QUOTE] Thats not emotional but it still doesnt make a lick of sense lol. Youre basing your knowledge of guns and hospitals off of action movies. For one, you could shoot a compressed can of propane and its not gonna explode. You can shoot a gas can and its not gonna catch fire. Also pretty sure that they dont store flamable gases in the hallway in a hospital. Thats not how things work, come on dood. Furthermore, if a doctor was so stressed out that he'd kill a patient or someone else, there are a lot of tools at his disposal aside from the theoretical gun at his hip. Part of carrying a firearm is the understanding of the local and federal laws, and when to shoot and when not too. So I like to think that most people are smart enough not to fire on an attacker in a crowded hallway. Furthermore, if a mass shooter started firing, do you think people are going to continue about their business or start fleeing? Do you think criminals obey signs? Because if you do, you'd be wrong. Gun Free Zones are proven not to work.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52334650]Thats not emotional but it still doesnt make a lick of sense lol. Youre basing your knowledge of guns and hospitals off of action movies. For one, you could shoot a compressed can of propane and its not gonna explode. You can shoot a gas can and its not gonna catch fire. Also pretty sure that they dont store flamable gases in the hallway in a hospital. Thats not how things work, come on dood. Furthermore, if a doctor was so stressed out that he'd kill a patient or someone else, there are a lot of tools at his disposal aside from the theoretical gun at his hip. Part of carrying a firearm is the understanding of the local and federal laws, and when to shoot and when not too. So I like to think that most people are smart enough not to fire on an attacker in a crowded hallway. Furthermore, if a mass shooter started firing, do you think people are going to continue about their business or start fleeing? Do you think criminals obey signs? Because if you do, you'd be wrong. Gun Free Zones are proven not to work.[/QUOTE] I'm not basing my knowlodge of action movies. Most beds have a gas panel on top of them wich lets out numerous gasses (including O2, which is highly flammable and very commonly used in medical procedures). O2 tanks are so thick I don't think it's even possible to make them leak with a gunshot. By mental unrest I'm referring to non-medical workers. I have a nurse friend who's been a situation where a patient's relative has tried to kill medical personnel with a chair after receiving news of a death (nothing could go wrong if she had a gun). If a medical professional isn't well mentally he shouldn't be working much less carrying a gun in there, that's a no-brainer. Workers could have CC weapons for all I care. The point is having any random bloke walk in with a gun. I'm not anti-gun but sure, you can choose to ignore those Gun Free Zones, but it's still not a very smart idea to take guns into schools or hospitals (or apparently it is?).

[QUOTE=Kinky Frog;52334691]I'm not basing my knowlodge of action movies. Most beds have a gas panel on top of them wich lets out numerous gasses (including O2, which is highly flammable and very commonly used in medical procedures). O2 tanks are so thick I don't think it's even possible to make them leak with a gunshot. By mental unrest I'm referring to non-medical workers. I have a nurse friend who's been a situation where a patient's relative has tried to kill medical personnel with a chair after receiving news of a death (nothing could go wrong if she had a gun). If a medical professional isn't well mentally he shouldn't be working much less carrying a gun in there, that's a no-brainer. Workers could have CC weapons for all I care. The point is having any random bloke walk in with a gun. I'm not anti-gun but sure, you can choose to ignore those Gun Free Zones, but it's still not a very smart idea to take guns into schools or hospitals (or apparently it is?).[/QUOTE] If even you think that a compressed gas tank wouldnt leak via a gunshot, why even bring it up??? Your anecdote about someone outraged over a death is just that; an anecdote. Millions of Americans conceal carry in high stress enviroments without losing their shit. Some of America's worst shootings have happened in gun free zones, namely a school and military base. But youre still not presenting any viable reasoning to ban guns from hospitals other than what-if scenarios.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52334854]If even you think that a compressed gas tank wouldnt leak via a gunshot, why even bring it up??? [/QUOTE] Where did I mention compressed gas tanks are the only source of flammable gases?

There really isn't any valid reason I can think of for a hospital to be a gun free zone. A mental hospital, sure, but they better be screening what's coming in. Logically gun free zones that are enforced simply by signage or by law do nothing to prevent anyone intent on harm from carrying into those zones to begin with. Because if they are intent on murder that is a much more serious crime than one for carrying into a "gun free zone." These signs only affect the law abiding. Now, I wish to give an example, in Texas it is a class A misdemeanor to carry a firearm ([url=http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm]TX 46.035[/url]) into a hospital as a LTC (as CHL is called in Texas) holder. (Though for some reason its a felony to carry as a LTC into a bar, on par with a correctional facility.) So what one with a LTC ends up having to do is just leave the firearm in their car somewhere. Go into the hospital, do whatever they were there for. Exit the hospital. And rearm once they're back in their vehicle. Why? What purpose is served by having a LTC holder disarm in the parking lot, then having to rearm once they get back? By the way, it looks like it is completely legal to carry a long arm into a hospital since chapter 46 only covers handguns. But yeah, so many people would freak out if one did that. And as far as flammable gases, a bullet pretty much never creates a spark needed to ignite something. And I'd point out it is not illegal to carry a lighter into a hospital. Even though a lighter would be much more effective a igniting something than a bullet, or the firearm itself, would. In conclusion, gun free zones that are not enforced by screening procedures are retarded. They are feel good measures with no real world backing. p.s., I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, go speak to a lawyer before doing something you might regret. p.p.s., That woman was retarded for not having a drop safe pistol. They aren't hard to come by.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52332637]Whats the logical argument behind hospitals being a bad place to carry? Thus far I've only ever heard emotional ones.[/QUOTE] Logical one: Hospitals are the great community stew pot. You have everyone there: the wealthy, the poor, the EDP, the arrested, the sick, the healthy, the fake, the real, the OD, the dead. You name it and a nurse would tell you they've come through that door. What mostly comes through the door are people with mental illness. People who have mental illness are unpredictable at this state. Hospitals already have strict weapon policies and dont want to further injure people while in their care for legal reasons. An EDP gets ahold of a weapon, any weapon for that matter, things are going to go south quick. The man who just learned some terrible news about his family/SO and isnt thinking rationally gets a weapon and things will go south quick. Armed hospital security isnt really a thing either because nothing like getting into a struggle for a gun at the bedside in the hospital while doing a restraint. I'd be more interested in hearing the argument [I]for[/I] being able to carry into a hospital ER. And preferably from someone who has experience working in the ER. And I dont think that exists. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kigen;52335001]There really isn't any valid reason I can think of for a hospital to be a gun free zone. A mental hospital, sure, but they better be screening what's coming in.[/QUOTE] Guess where people go before the mental hospital -- or civil commitment facility. Guess where people go who are not medicated and are having an epidode? You guessed it! The hospital.

Alternate argument: Just don't bring your gun to the fucking hospital who cares that there's like, three places you can't get away with it in this country.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52335050] Guess where people go before the mental hospital -- or civil commitment facility. Guess where people go who are not medicated and are having an epidode? You guessed it! The hospital.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about a secured facility vs a unsecured facility. Where do the police and EMTs find these people a lot of times? In public to begin with. So again, why ban people who are responsibly carrying from carrying into a hospital?

[QUOTE=Kigen;52335083]I'm talking about a secured facility vs an unsecured facility. Where do the police and EMTs find these people a lot of times? In public to begin with. So again, why ban people who are responsibly carrying from carrying into a hospital?[/QUOTE] Secured facility: hell no to guns. You will be laughed at by everyone if you try to pitch that. You do not want to willingly introduce more weapons into a civil commitment/mental hospital. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] and because even the safest drivers can still be in a crash. You can be the most responsible gun owner/carrier in the world, but you cannot predict what others will do. Especially if they're EDP

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52335160]Secured facility: hell no to guns. You will be laughed at by everyone if you try to pitch that. You do not want to willingly introduce more weapons into a civil commitment/mental hospital. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] and because even the safest drivers can still be in a crash. You can be the most responsible gun owner/carrier in the world, but you cannot predict what others will do. Especially if they're EDP[/QUOTE] I guess you didn't read my argument. I'm saying the only places that should be allowed to be "gun free zones" are secured facilities where proper screening and control of who and what goes in and out occurs. And why would a EDP be any different based on the location they are at? Be it in a hospital or in a more public place, a firearms carrier is responsible for maintaining control over their firearm. Same as a police officer. Most conceal carry, so a EDP wouldn't even know they are carrying a firearm. So again, why the distinction? A hospital is a unsecured facility.

[QUOTE=Kinky Frog;52334947]Where did I mention compressed gas tanks are the only source of flammable gases?[/QUOTE] I apologize for not being able to read your mind and pick up that you werent specifically talking about the thing you were specifically talking about. As I stated earlier, guns in movies dont work like guns in real life. Shooting a barrel of gasoline doesn't result in a fiery explosion, nor a compressed can of pure oxygen or really anything else. [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Code3Response;52335050]Logical one: Hospitals are the great community stew pot. You have everyone there: the wealthy, the poor, the EDP, the arrested, the sick, the healthy, the fake, the real, the OD, the dead. You name it and a nurse would tell you they've come through that door. What mostly comes through the door are people with mental illness. People who have mental illness are unpredictable at this state. Hospitals already have strict weapon policies and dont want to further injure people while in their care for legal reasons. An EDP gets ahold of a weapon, any weapon for that matter, things are going to go south quick. The man who just learned some terrible news about his family/SO and isnt thinking rationally gets a weapon and things will go south quick. Armed hospital security isnt really a thing either because nothing like getting into a struggle for a gun at the bedside in the hospital while doing a restraint. I'd be more interested in hearing the argument [I]for[/I] being able to carry into a hospital ER. And preferably from someone who has experience working in the ER. And I dont think that exists. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] Guess where people go before the mental hospital -- or civil commitment facility. Guess where people go who are not medicated and are having an epidode? You guessed it! The hospital.[/QUOTE] You think that some mental patient is going to be able to easily get away from their restraints, discern that a nurse has a concealed firearm or other weapon, and then effectively use it? [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] You guys keep basing these arguments on a lot of what ifs

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52335364]I apologize for not being able to read your mind and pick up that you werent specifically talking about the thing you were specifically talking about. As I stated earlier, guns in movies dont work like guns in real life. Shooting a barrel of gasoline doesn't result in a fiery explosion, nor a compressed can of pure oxygen or really anything else. [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] You think that some mental patient is going to be able to easily get away from their restraints, discern that a nurse has a concealed firearm or other weapon, and then effectively use it? [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] You guys keep basing these arguments on a lot of what ifs[/QUOTE] Bit ironic when proponents of arming hospital staff are the ones saying 'But what if an attacker comes into the hospital? What if the doctor needs to protect the patient?'.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52333272]That still doesn't justify your argument lol. Your whole argument is youre assuming Americans wont be comfortable with doctors concealed carrying on the job, despite millions of Americans concealed carrying, millions of police officers openly carrying, and thousands of gun shops in the US openly selling firearms to people. Youre providing no basis for your argument other than an unbacked assumption. Youre still arguing against firearms and weapons in general because you have emotional bias against them, not a logical one.[/QUOTE] "emotional" "too emotiony for me man" "illogic" "emotion" "not logical" is the best thing people can seem to come up with as a counter argument. It's really great to see that just being used as an immediate fall back. [QUOTE=butre;52334321]it counts as mental gymnastics to justify an emotional argument.[/QUOTE] You're someone that thinks firearms and lathes and hammers are the same thing I'm not sure you get to talk about mental gymnastics [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52335364]I apologize for not being able to read your mind and pick up that you werent specifically talking about the thing you were specifically talking about. As I stated earlier, guns in movies dont work like guns in real life. Shooting a barrel of gasoline doesn't result in a fiery explosion, nor a compressed can of pure oxygen or really anything else.[/QUOTE] That compressed gas can cause the gas bottle to be shot through the air, assuming its pressurized enough, if it hits you it can pretty much kill you (However I'm only familiar with welding bottles, I imagine that HOSPITAL bottles are significantly less pressurized, like, 99% sure of it, but even small welding bottles are very very dangerous) if the gas leaks, it can at least cause a fire. Shooting it can cause it to leak, and that leak can explode. Assuming they're properly made bottles of course, they'd be thick enough that you'd need to shoot the very top of it, shooting the base PROBABLY wouldn't do much. The danger is there and very powerful but I'd agree that it'd be a bit of an off-chance one-in-a-million thing so [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52335364] You guys keep basing these arguments on a lot of what ifs[/QUOTE] This thread is literally a thing because of a "What if" What if someone who doesn't practice proper gun safety brings a gun to a hospital, nurse, patient, anyone. What if they just forget to have the safety on or leave a gun near a child. "What ifs" exist because "what if a woman has a gun in her purse in a hospital" well, what if??? It's pointless to even argue FOR carrying guns in a hospital because its meant to be a safe enviroment. There's no actual use for having guns in a hospital. What is the need? What is the demand? "what if" a hospital gets held up by an armed gunman? this isn't exactly a daily thing like your 'need' seems to suggest, so why bother? If they need help, they have professional guards for this job to carry the guns. Having a gun on all staff is just needlessly hollywood-esque unrealistic crap. I'm very much for home/store/gas station/wherever its appropriate defense laws regarding guns. Totally 100% comfortable with it. Guns in a hospital on the other hand creates a worthlessly unsafe environment. There is no need for them and they serve no reason to be there, and they only create danger by being there. No emotional argument here, its a fact that guns are dangerous, just look at any person who was shot by one. [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52333272]That still doesn't justify your argument lol. Your whole argument is youre assuming Americans wont be comfortable with doctors concealed carrying on the job, despite millions of Americans concealed carrying, millions of police officers openly carrying, and thousands of gun shops in the US openly selling firearms to people. Youre providing no basis for your argument other than an unbacked assumption. Youre still arguing against firearms and weapons in general because you have emotional bias against them, not a logical one.[/QUOTE] "The Hippocratic Oath is an oath historically taken by physicians. It is one of the most widely known of Greek medical texts. In its original form, it requires a new physician to swear, by a number of healing gods, to uphold specific ethical standards." A doctor or nurse carrying a gun is literally an oxymoron. Not figuratively, literally, the idea is just endlessly hilarious. I'm not nervous around open carried pistols. But I would immediately leave a hospital if I knew that the doctors carried guns because it goes against everything they were taught. It's an absolute joke. It completely counters everything that they stand for. The idea of an on-duty doctor carrying a device specifically designed to defend via killing someone is a walking contradiction. Let the fucking police do the gun work, and the security. Don't let anyone else have a gun in a hospital because yes, that is dumb.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52335364]You think that some mental patient is going to be able to easily get away from their restraints, discern that a nurse has a concealed firearm or other weapon, and then effectively use it? [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] You guys keep basing these arguments on a lot of what ifs[/QUOTE] Not escaping from their restraints, but getting into them or transferring control of. The whole reason to carry is based on a what if going all the way back to the constitution. Its not illogical to base the counter argument on the same thing. Jail contraband lists are based on what ifs. Those must be pretty stupid too, right? And they dont even allow law enforcement to carry their gun or knives into the place. We're not talking about nurses having guns here. They don't want them. Talk to any ER nurse and try to convince them to carry a gun at work. It wont happen. [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;52336280]Let the fucking police do the gun work, and the security. Don't let anyone else have a gun in a hospital because yes, that is dumb.[/QUOTE] I cant even name a hospital that I know of right now whose security has firearms. They mostly go for the Taser, OC+CS, and collapsible baton.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52336447] I cant even name a hospital that I know of right now whose security has firearms. They mostly go for the Taser, OC+CS, and collapsible baton.[/QUOTE] Because truth be told, a gun is a fucking stupid weapon to use in a hospital environment, way too many people around, long hallways where if you miss that bullets traveling for a while, and loads of expensive equipment that probably wouldn't survive getting shot

[QUOTE=Crimor;52336699]Because truth be told, a gun is a fucking stupid weapon to use in a hospital environment, way too many people around, long hallways where if you miss that bullets traveling for a while, and loads of expensive equipment that probably wouldn't survive getting shot[/QUOTE] How is that any different from say a business office? Or a restaurant? Or some other large gathering of people where it is legal to carry?

[QUOTE=Kigen;52336710]How is that any different from say a business office? Or a restaurant? Or some other large gathering of people where it is legal to carry?[/QUOTE] maybe it shouldn't be legal to carry in those areas lol

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52336724]maybe it shouldn't be legal to carry in those areas lol[/QUOTE] Maybe it'd be better if we didn't have illogical laws. The simple act of carrying a firearm does not equate to an action. The overwhelming majority of people who do carry know about how a firearm functions and what it will do if they fire the gun and miss. So they verify their backstop is clear.

[QUOTE=butre;52334321]it counts as mental gymnastics to justify an emotional argument. there's no flammable gasses in a hospital that a bullet can set off and even if there were your average hospital has some really incredible fire suppression systems. [/QUOTE] Tell that to the oxygen piped throughout every single hospital I have worked in, from A&E to theatres to radiology. There are documented cases of sparks causing patient deaths due to oxygen fires, particularly in theatres, ICU and ambulances.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52336280] "The Hippocratic Oath is an oath historically taken by physicians. It is one of the most widely known of Greek medical texts. In its original form, it requires a new physician to swear, by a number of healing gods, to uphold specific ethical standards." A doctor or nurse carrying a gun is literally an oxymoron. Not figuratively, literally, the idea is just endlessly hilarious. I'm not nervous around open carried pistols. But I would immediately leave a hospital if I knew that the doctors carried guns because it goes against everything they were taught. It's an absolute joke. It completely counters everything that they stand for. The idea of an on-duty doctor carrying a device specifically designed to defend via killing someone is a walking contradiction. [/QUOTE] You seem to think that carrying a gun is soley for the purpose of killing someone in cold blood or murder. I see it as an opportunity to allow someone the means of self defense that they otherwise would not have. If being able to defend yourself is against an oath, it's not a very good oath, now is it? Also, a doctor carrying a gun is not going to perform any differently on a patient. It's not as if because they have a chunk of steel on their hip, they no longer care about giving effective treatment. Them being a "walking contradiction" has no effect on medical performance. [QUOTE]Let the fucking police do the gun work, and the security. Don't let anyone else have a gun in a hospital because yes, that is dumb.[/QUOTE] How about fucking no? Do you know about police response times? Do you really think that a citizen has no right to self defense just because an officer is better trained? Do you really think that the right to defend yourself ends when you walk into a place for medical treatment? "Just let the police handle it" is such a euro-centric meme I laugh every time someone says something to that effect. Self defense is a personal responsibility. You cannot and should not be forced to rely on the police for your own safety, especially when they are so unreliable. If someone has been determined responsible enough to qualify for a CC or OC permit and wield a gun in public, they are responsible enough to wield it in a hospital as well.