[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53065014]I'm not asking you to probe, and sometimes people who're uncomfortable can't get their thoughts out. That's too idealistic to expect uncomfortable people to always be able to sound off their discomfort.
You don't have to probe, just note when they don't seem into it, and bring it up. It's seriously not hard. It doesn't matter who's "responsibility" it is; you don't think "she's not acting eager, but it's not my responsibility to worry about that" and then keep going. A quick "hey, you good?" can do so much. The jump between doing nothing and doing that is big.[/QUOTE]
Everyone responds differently to different things.
I'm not saying "I don't have to do anything, I don't have to communicate." I'm saying that's a two way street.
If a person is uncomfortable with a situation it is their job to speak up with that. Under literally any scenario I can think of, it is always going to be [B]MY[/B] duty to speak up for myself. I cannot relegate that to another party.
You seem to be suggesting that women in sexual situations don't have to take responsibility for themselves, and instead it's the mans job to be responsible for her consent.
I will state quite frankly that's not a good way to do things.
I just have to say that the argument that “well we were going down on each other so sex is already implied!” is absolutely disgusting. Women aren’t beholden to do whatever you want just because they did something else. Could you imagine a car salesman bitching about not selling you a car when “you drove to the dealership, isn’t the purchase implied??”
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53064048]Make out with them, feel them up. If they seem [I]eagerly responsive,[/I] then keep going. Are they kind of just letting you do it? Ask them "this alright with you?" or "you doing okay?"
It's seriously not that complicated. And don't try to reduce Ansari's pushiness to "because he was a horny man" because I don't want to be dragged into your unaware definition of "a horny man."
TBH it's such a dumb strawman response to say "what's next, do I have to ask for consent when I move my hand to another breast?" No one is saying that, stop acting like they are. No, no one is going to demand you verbally ask their consent for the next inch of your cock, and no, no one is going to start writing up Sexual Consent Contracts before you fuck.
We're far past saying "lock him up," instead saying "this is bad, he was pushy and douchey, it needs to be called out. [I]don't do what he did.[/I]"[/QUOTE]
Can't you see how subjective and open to interpretation those instructions/criteria are? Who is to say he didn't think she was responsive? Moreover, if he really was ignoring or misreading her signals, why is she incapable of escalating her "signals"? Apparently making out with him and then sucking him off twice wasn't a clear enough "I don't like you" signal, who would have thought! I feel like you're just searching for some way to come out defending the woman for the sake of it here. You say "it's seriously not that complicated" referring to Aziz's ability to interpret her sucking him off and lightly sighing as a sign that she wants to stop, yet refuse to apply "it's not that complicated" to her just saying "hey, I don't like this. I'm going home now!". Why is the onus on him to interpret vague hints and incredibly mixed signals, but she has zero responsibility to be a big girl and do something more than sigh?
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53064866]So, is your alternative to just not bother with asking and doing it anyway? What do you propose should be done, otherwise?
If I ask someone if they're alright, and I hear them say "yes," then you're good. They seem hesitent? They might be nervous, but you asked, so you [I]already did the right thing.[/I] At some point, they may ask you to stop, and then you do. It [I]really is that simple.[/I] I'm not sure what's the challenge to surmount here.
You're nitpicking here at saying "well, technically, you're already doing it, so you already assaulted" which isn't how it works at all. I have [I]never[/I] heard a story where someone said "they asked if I was okay with it after already touching my breast and only stopped after I said no, so I'm accusing them with assault."
It's honestly so simple to just ask someone's consent. You act like it's some unsolvable puzzle of "well she said yes but she still seems hesitent," when you can literally just ask "hey, you still seem uncomfrotable." You can bring it up and communicate. You can use your words. It's really not complicated at all.
I'm really tired of people trying to use the excuse of "sex is supposed to be spontaneous, not a discussion" to counter this because it comes off as valuing their sexual fantasy over another person, that they'd rather have their sex than be considerate.[/QUOTE]
So basically, extremely obvious non-verbal signals of consent like sucking someone off repeatedly and making out with them can all be spurred from someone being scared and too paralyzed to.. not suck someone off.. But someone verbally saying "okay" is the golden ticket because obviously nobody could ever be so submissive, nervous, intimidated, etc. that they would give verbal consent without really wanting to engage in sex? Am I understanding that correctly?
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;53065217]I just have to say that the argument that “well we were going down on each other so sex is already implied!” is absolutely disgusting. Women aren’t beholden to do whatever you want just because they did something else. Could you imagine a car salesman bitching about not selling you a car when “you drove to the dealership, isn’t the purchase implied??”[/QUOTE]
Are you saying oral sex is not sex?
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53065014]I'm not asking you to probe, and sometimes people who're uncomfortable can't get their thoughts out. That's too idealistic to expect uncomfortable people to always be able to sound off their discomfort.
You don't have to probe, just note when they don't seem into it, and bring it up. It's seriously not hard. It doesn't matter who's "responsibility" it is; you don't think "she's not acting eager, but it's not my responsibility to worry about that" and then keep going. A quick "hey, you good?" can do so much. The jump between doing nothing and doing that is big.[/QUOTE]
A. What if the other person honestly does not recognize that they "don't seem into it"? You're just dodging the issue by presuming everyone can magically determine in any scenario with any person what their deep down feelings are. They can't. It's entirely reasonable to assume that a well-intentioned person, even yourself, could fail to recognize someone's discomfort and subsequently be labeled a predator.
B. Again, you're totally ignoring that if we're presuming that grown women are so infantile and lacking in individual agency they can't say "no" to something, then it follows that they might respond affirmatively to "hey are you okay?" even if they are actually incredibly uncomfortable. In which case, again, a well-intentioned person could end up "assaulting" someone thinking that everything is totally fine.
Plus, as was mentioned above, in the real world your constant "hey are you okay? oh okay you just seemed.. yeah okay.. are you sure you're okay?" is just going to come off insecure and annoying to a pretty sizable portion of women that exist outside of hypothetical scenarios you concoct.
[QUOTE=Niklas;53065302]Are you saying oral sex is not sex?[/QUOTE]
They’re two different things that you can consent to separately. The idea is that you both have to WANT to do it.
Vaginal and anal penetration are both sexual acts but just because a girl wants to do the former doesn’t automatically imply they want to do the latter.
I'm surprised so few people here seem to have heard of enthusiastic consent. The modern thinking (which I tend to agree with) is that consent is not just the absence of a "no", it's the "yes" that really counts. Not being vocal enough or miscommunucating isn't the point, Aziz shouldn't just take low resistance to sexual advances as a "yes".
And I'm surprised at the amount of infantalization of women is going on by some of you
Women need to be responsible for themselves and their consent. Not everyone is going to offer an "enthusiastic yes", not everyone should going to have th same degree of enthusiasm show through. Putting it all on the one reading the situation is wrong.
"can you fuck me please" no "can I jack off to you after you leave" no "ok"
[QUOTE=Qwerty Bastard;53065636]I'm surprised so few people here seem to have heard of enthusiastic consent. The modern thinking (which I tend to agree with) is that consent is not just the absence of a "no", it's the "yes" that really counts. Not being vocal enough or miscommunucating isn't the point, Aziz shouldn't just take low resistance to sexual advances as a "yes".[/QUOTE]
So people who are shy or struggle to communicate just shouldn't even try to have sex then? Not everyone gives enthusiastic replies and a lot of people want the person they're with to take the lead in bed.
More seriously, next time you have sex stop between every action and ask for permission. See how quickly it kills the mood.
on the bright side maybe I won't have to see his unfunny ass every 5 minutes on tv anymore. everything has a silver lining.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53065097]You seem to be suggesting that women in sexual situations don't have to take responsibility for themselves, and instead it's the mans job to be responsible for her consent.
I will state quite frankly that's not a good way to do things.[/QUOTE]
I've actually been trying my best to keep my arguments as gender neutral as possible, and I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't be applying every last point I'm making to a woman and man having sex with the man seeming uncomfortable and the woman being considerate.
In hindsight, Aziz's comedy sketches focusing on dating and his [url=https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Romance-Aziz-Ansari/dp/0143109251]"Modern Romance"[/url] are going to be looked at in a new light.
[QUOTE=srobins;53065265]Can't you see how subjective and open to interpretation those instructions/criteria are? Who is to say he didn't think she was responsive? Moreover, if he really was ignoring or misreading her signals, why is she incapable of escalating her "signals"? Apparently making out with him and then sucking him off twice wasn't a clear enough "I don't like you" signal, who would have thought! I feel like you're just searching for some way to come out defending the woman for the sake of it here. You say "it's seriously not that complicated" referring to Aziz's ability to interpret her sucking him off and lightly sighing as a sign that she wants to stop, yet refuse to apply "it's not that complicated" to her just saying "hey, I don't like this. I'm going home now!". Why is the onus on him to interpret vague hints and incredibly mixed signals, but she has zero responsibility to be a big girl and do something more than sigh?[/QUOTE]
I don't see how "he moved my hand to his penis repeatedly after I kept pulling away" is mixed signals.
"I'm feeling forced and I don't want to hate you" isn't a mixed signal, either (yes, she went down on him afterwards, but she felt coereced; you can interpret that as a mixed signal if you want, but I'm still going to say that Ansari definitely shouldn't have brought up oral sex after she explicitly said "I'm not okay with this")
Saying said "no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this" isn't a mixed signal, and yes, I'm going to criticize Aziz's judgement to decide to stick his fingers down her throat and try to undo her pants after hearing that.
[editline]19th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=srobins;53065303]A. What if the other person honestly does not recognize that they "don't seem into it"? You're just dodging the issue by presuming everyone can magically determine in any scenario with any person what their deep down feelings are. They can't. It's entirely reasonable to assume that a well-intentioned person, even yourself, could fail to recognize someone's discomfort and subsequently be labeled a predator.
B. Again, you're totally ignoring that if we're presuming that grown women are so infantile and lacking in individual agency they can't say "no" to something, then it follows that they might respond affirmatively to "hey are you okay?" even if they are actually incredibly uncomfortable. In which case, again, a well-intentioned person could end up "assaulting" someone thinking that everything is totally fine.
Plus, as was mentioned above, in the real world your constant "hey are you okay? oh okay you just seemed.. yeah okay.. are you sure you're okay?" is just going to come off insecure and annoying to a pretty sizable portion of women that exist outside of hypothetical scenarios you concoct.[/QUOTE]
I'm really not infantilizing women at all. I'm not saying "women are weak and can't speak for themselves." I'm saying if your partner doesn't seem comfortable, pay attention and see if they're doing alright.
And why am I being presumed in saying "and btw women should never have to speak up for themselevs?" That's a pretty ridiculous thing to jump to. People are told all the time to "speak up if you're uncomfortable." That advice has been given, and is still being given. But no one has been saying "if your partner doesn't seem into it, check in on them." So, it's being said now. No one is also arguing against "women should speak up." No one is saying "actually that's silly." But people are trying to argue against being considerate for your partner, and that's pretty scary.
Also wow, where do you think I've heard this exact advice heard again and again? From real women, who exist in the real world. The loudest voices saying "enthusiastic consent matters" are women in the real world. They aren't straw-women from hypothetical scenarios, they're real scenarios that real women have been saying "yes, this should be done."
[editline]19th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53065097]Everyone responds differently to different things.
I'm not saying "I don't have to do anything, I don't have to communicate." I'm saying that's a two way street.
If a person is uncomfortable with a situation it is their job to speak up with that. Under literally any scenario I can think of, it is always going to be [B]MY[/B] duty to speak up for myself. I cannot relegate that to another party.[/QUOTE]
Okay but why not bring it up if your partner seems uncomfortable.
[editline]19th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;53066045]So people who are shy or struggle to communicate just shouldn't even try to have sex then? Not everyone gives enthusiastic replies and a lot of people want the person they're with to take the lead in bed.
More seriously, next time you have sex stop between every action and ask for permission. See how quickly it kills the mood.[/QUOTE]
If you're more concerned with "the mood" than your partner's comfort, maybe you shouldn't be having sex, either.
And what's with the obsession with equating checking in with stopping sex in between every action to ask for permission? Why do people think that's the only way this works?
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53066358]
Okay but why not bring it up if your partner seems uncomfortable.
[/QUOTE]
What if they don't seem uncomfortable? Why does the uncomfortable party bear apparently zero responsibility in your world view here? Why does the uncomfortable party who may not be displaying any outward signs of discomfort need to be repeatedly asked? Why do they not bear the responsibility to speak for themselves?
Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person to speak up for themselves? Do you think that under your social construct where women are afraid of men, and may not want to anger them that they may just answer the questions of "Is this okay?" constantly in the affirmative from the same social pressure that got them into this position in the first place?
I want you to answer this question
Under any other circumstances, does someone else bear the responsibility to speak on behalf of other parties? You're asking men to communicate for the women, you're not making this a two way street where women are equal to men.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53066748]What if they don't seem uncomfortable? Why does the uncomfortable party bear apparently zero responsibility in your world view here? Why does the uncomfortable party who may not be displaying any outward signs of discomfort need to be repeatedly asked? Why do they not bear the responsibility to speak for themselves?
Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person to speak up for themselves? Do you think that under your social construct where women are afraid of men, and may not want to anger them that they may just answer the questions of "Is this okay?" constantly in the affirmative from the same social pressure that got them into this position in the first place?
I want you to answer this question
Under any other circumstances, does someone else bear the responsibility to speak on behalf of other parties? You're asking men to communicate for the women, you're not making this a two way street where women are equal to men.[/QUOTE]
Then you've less to worry about. I've already answered that, and again, you've no reason at all to assume my view states that they bear no responsibility, the only basis for thinking that is that I've never approached that. They don't need to be repeatedly asked, just asked when they don't seem to be going well with it. Check in on them if you don't think things are going alright. If you're still thinking they're seriously uncomfortable with it, then stop fucking, and say "alright, you definitely seem off, and I can't ignore it." If not, then congrats, keep going. And again, I never said they're scot-free. The issue with saying "they should have spoken up" is because it's never said as a statement of fact, but rather to place more blame on the victim and ignore the neglect of the other party.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say "yes, you should say when you're uncomfortable," but like I said, no one is arguing otherwise. Telling a person "well, it was your responsibility to speak up" is right on the border of "you deserved it." I don't have a construct where women are afraid of men, so please don't put words in my mouth. I've never said "women are afraid of men," and have specifically kept my language vague enough to be referring to scenarios in which someone may be uncomfortable, not "women [I]are[/I] uncomfortable." That said, going by what I've heard said (from women) multiple times, [I]these[/I] women can very well be afraid of [I]these[/I] men, at this time. One response I have heard (again, from) women is that they don't say something because they're thinking "I just want to get this over with as smoothly as possible."
But in the sense of "they might just say 'yes I am okay,'" that is a much smaller problem, because a) that's a lot less likely to happen and b) that's her making the fully active decision to say the words "yes, I am okay with this." When women feel pressured to suck a guy's dick, she's thinking "maybe if I just deal with it and suck him off he'll leave." Saying "I'm okay" is, definitely saying "keep going, I'm okay with this." If anything (to use an example from a conversation I had a friend about this, just now), they'll say something, get ignored (like Grace was), and then get more and more discouraged and scared that they aren't being heard (scared in this scenario, before you start assuming I'm implying women are inherently scared of men).
And, like I [I]already said,[/I] women are already told, time and time again, "speak up for yourself," from sensible sources to victim blaming sources. No, [I]no one[/I] has ever said: "you know what, that sounds pretty ridiculous." No one argued against that, and there's no reason to think otherwise.
Literally, all I'm suggesting is to be considerate of your partner's discomfort, and if you sense discomfort, ask. If you think caring about your partner's discomfort is unreasonable to [I]any [/I]degree, then I don't know what to tell you. If you hear that and think "but what about..." then I don't know what to tell you. [I]That[/I] is what is being asked. Not to ask verbally every time your move your hand to a different spot, but just to give a damn.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53066358]
If you're more concerned with "the mood" than your partner's comfort, maybe you shouldn't be having sex, either.
And what's with the obsession with equating checking in with stopping sex in between every action to ask for permission? Why do people think that's the only way this works?[/QUOTE]
The mood is, in part, your partner's comfort. Constantly asking for permission can make the person you're with uncomfortable. I blew my first (and only) sexual encounter by asking for permission too much and the girl was completely put off by it.
This may shock you but to a lot of people when they say they want to have sex with you they're saying "I want to fuck you" so asking if it's alright to stick it in just makes you look like a dweeb who can't read signals.
I think we've reached a point where we're trying to essentially legislate away every single bad interaction that two people can have.
I don't expect that will go well.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;53067497]The mood is, in part, your partner's comfort. Constantly asking for permission can make the person you're with uncomfortable. I blew my first (and only) sexual encounter by asking for permission too much and the girl was completely put off by it.
This may shock you but to a lot of people when they say they want to have sex with you they're saying "I want to fuck you" so asking if it's alright to stick it in just makes you look like a dweeb who can't read signals.[/QUOTE]
Then don't constantly do it? I say "check in," and you say "Ask them constantly throughout? That's silly."
Just because you put that girl off by asking for permission too many times doesn't mean you shouldn't ask about it if they seem uncomfortable. That was on [I]you[/I] for not taking her first answer and asking again and again.
And [I]this[/I] may shock you, but we're not talking about people who're saying they want to have sex with you, but people who don't say those words at all, but instead are just lead through the encounter. You're putting words in my mouth, and changing the scenarios I'm presenting. You're taking my suggestions to the extreme, and using [I]those[/I] scenarios as examples why it wouldn't work, essentially ignoring what I'm actually saying.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53067687]Then don't constantly do it? I say "check in," and you say "Ask them constantly throughout? That's silly."
Just because you put that girl off by asking for permission too many times doesn't mean you shouldn't ask about it if they seem uncomfortable. That was on [I]you[/I] for not taking her first answer and asking again and again.
And [I]this[/I] may shock you, but we're not talking about people who're saying they want to have sex with you, but people who don't say those words at all, but instead are just lead through the encounter. You're putting words in my mouth, and changing the scenarios I'm presenting. You're taking my suggestions to the extreme, and using [I]those[/I] scenarios as examples why it wouldn't work, essentially ignoring what I'm actually saying.[/QUOTE]
You realize that the one thing that would have avoided this article being written would have been if he had asked before each indiviudal act if she was okay with it, which is exactly what makes you look like a shitty-at-reading-signals dweeb, right?
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53066358]Also wow, where do you think I've heard this exact advice heard again and again? From real women, who exist in the real world. The loudest voices saying "enthusiastic consent matters" are women in the real world. They aren't straw-women from hypothetical scenarios, they're real scenarios that real women have been saying "yes, this should be done."[/QUOTE]
"The loudest voices", that being female celebrities, bloggers and writers, don't represent half of the population of this country (or the world). This is an issue on both the left and the right where there is a political line that is popular and needs to be maintained and supported, which has a severe disconnect from reality. It's the "right" thing to say even though it's kinda bullshit.
[QUOTE=phygon;53068249]You realize that the one thing that would have avoided this article being written would have been if he had asked before each indiviudal act if she was okay with it, which is exactly what makes you look like a shitty-at-reading-signals dweeb, right?[/QUOTE]
Are you ignoring how she explicitly said, multiple times, how she wasn't comfortable, and he kept pushing and pushing? The article would have been avoided if he wasn't pushy and ignoring her saying "I don't think I'm doing this."
[editline]20th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=srobins;53068612]"The loudest voices", that being female celebrities, bloggers and writers, don't represent half of the population of this country (or the world). This is an issue on both the left and the right where there is a political line that is popular and needs to be maintained and supported, which has a severe disconnect from reality. It's the "right" thing to say even though it's kinda bullshit.[/QUOTE]
You're ignoring all the regular women who are saying the same stuff. I've yet to hear a woman say anything that disagrees.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53068780]Are you ignoring how she explicitly said, multiple times, how she wasn't comfortable, and he kept pushing and pushing? The article would have been avoided if he wasn't pushy and ignoring her saying "I don't think I'm doing this."
[editline]20th January 2018[/editline]
You're ignoring all the regular women who are saying the same stuff. I've yet to hear a woman say anything that disagrees.[/QUOTE]
So is this about this case or all cases?
Are you by any chance ignoring women who disagree with that position? What would you say to a woman who held the position I've been pushing all thread?
Are you seriously going to ignore that just requiring men to be constantly asking takes the responsibility away from women to just vocalize how they feel?
Like you've been dismissive and ignored many of my point against your arguments.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53068780]You're ignoring all the regular women who are saying the same stuff. I've yet to hear a woman say anything that disagrees.[/QUOTE]
And you're ignoring all the regular women who think this stuff is bullshit. You presume that the majority agrees with you because your viewpoint is the popular, "correct" viewpoint that is espoused by major figures.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53069125]So is this about this case or all cases?
Are you by any chance ignoring women who disagree with that position? What would you say to a woman who held the position I've been pushing all thread?
Are you seriously going to ignore that just requiring men to be constantly asking takes the responsibility away from women to just vocalize how they feel?
Like you've been dismissive and ignored many of my point against your arguments.[/QUOTE]
phygon mentioned this article, so I responded about this article.
And no, because I've never encountered them. I can't ignore who I've never seen. And I'd say the same exact thing to a woman holding your position: if your partner feels uncomfortable, check in to see how they're doing. If you think that's too much to ask for, then you care more about getting off than your partner's comfort.
And I haven't "ignored that" because I've repeatedly said that that's not the case at all. I've addressed, time and time again, that people have always been told and have had the responsibility to speak up for themselves. And that doesn't take away, at all, that you should ask your partner if they seem uncomfortable.
And I haven't dismissed or ignored any of your points. I've addressed and answered each one you've made.
[editline]21st January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=srobins;53069164]And you're ignoring all the regular women who think this stuff is bullshit. You presume that the majority agrees with you because your viewpoint is the popular, "correct" viewpoint that is espoused by major figures.[/QUOTE]
I'm can't ignore who I haven't heard in the first place. And like I said before, I'd tell them that they're wrong to they think considering their partner's comfort too much to ask for. I presume plenty of regular women think the same thing because I've been hearing them say it in the first place, which in turn lead me to think about it in the first place.
This thread is a mess of opinions
Ever hear about safewords? A way to get passionate and understand what the partner's okay with without asking for permission?
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53069304]phygon mentioned this article, so I responded about this article.[/QUOTE]
We've been phasing in and out of talking about this case, and talking generally. You as well.
[QUOTE]
And no, because I've never encountered them. I can't ignore who I've never seen. [/QUOTE]
So they don't exist? That's not true by any stretch.
[QUOTE]
And I'd say the same exact thing to a woman holding your position: if your partner feels uncomfortable, check in to see how they're doing. [B]If you think that's too much to ask for, then you care more about getting off than your partner's comfort.[/B][/QUOTE]
Please. For the love of god, stop putting words in my mouth. The ONLY thing I've said about this is that communication is a two way street, and that you clearly are not treating it that way.
[QUOTE]And I haven't "ignored that" because I've repeatedly said that that's not the case at all. I've addressed, time and time again, that people have always been told and have had the responsibility to speak up for themselves. And that doesn't take away, at all, that you should ask your partner if they seem uncomfortable.[/QUOTE]
And I hate to say this, but that's true. It is their job. The only thing I feel you're doing is saying that if bad things happen, it's because men aren't doing enough. If someone asks, and the answer they get back is a yes, and they proceed but that yes wasn't "genuine" then you haven't changed the situation at all. I genuinely feel the only way to change the situation is have the people who are uncomfortable, be assertive about that. If the person is obviously uncomfortable then yes, I will ask. But that assumes two things.
1) I have the ability to notice that, or the desire to notice it and
2) that you simply being uncomfortable bothers me.
The bad people, like Aziz from this article, or in other instances will have no compulsion to follow through on this. However, an "Enthusiastic no" would probably have more effect. Who am I to say though. Maybe relying on the Harvey Weinsteins of the world to say "is this okay?" is the better option?
[QUOTE]
And I haven't dismissed or ignored any of your points. I've addressed and answered each one you've made.[/QUOTE]
No. You have clipped and edited multiple posts of mine, but okay.
[QUOTE]I'm can't ignore who I haven't heard in the first place. And like I said before, I'd tell them that they're wrong to they think considering their partner's comfort too much to ask for. I presume plenty of regular women think the same thing because I've been hearing them say it in the first place, which in turn lead me to think about it in the first place.[/QUOTE]
I feel it's absurd that I have to say this, but almost no one, at least not me or srobins has actually at any point in time said in any way, shape, or form that its "Too much to ask", but you keep repeating this.
[editline]20th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53069335]This thread is a mess of opinions
Ever hear about safewords? A way to get passionate and understand what the partner's okay with without asking for permission?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but this article was about a one night stand between acquaintances who knew each other non-romantically. do you really expect them to establish safewords?
Communication is key. It is however, a two way street at all times.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53069349]No. You have clipped and edited multiple posts of mine, but okay. [/QUOTE]
[I]Edited[/I]​ your posts? When?
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53069437][I]Edited[/I]​ your posts? When?[/QUOTE]
Edited is the wrong word, but clipped them certainly.
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