Canadian baby 'first without gender designation' on health card - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=The golden;52431084]Your amazing display of transphobia has been noted. Thanks for being such a nice person. I'd love to know what great injustice this person did to you that warrants you mistreating them and insulting them.[/QUOTE] maybe I'm not reading this right but I thought he was just making fun of how the person looks, not the fact that they're trans or any of that call me ignorant but I don't see how its transphobic if that's the case

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;52431221]Then why didn't they just pick Ceril instead of a corny new-age spelling that's going to get them picked on at school?[/QUOTE] who knows / who cares? there's fucking dozens of variants of spellings of all sorts of names, allison, allyson, alison, brian bryan jonathan jonathon, whatever. plenty of new-age spelling all over the place, too. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Aphtonites;52431221]The mother seems to really be fetishizing the whole non-binary thing.[/QUOTE] probably shouldn't call them a mother, but I don't disagree. just because they're trans doesn't mean their child will be.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;52431180]Are genetic mutations really that common place?[/QUOTE] So people with uncommon differences can't fit in anywhere?

[QUOTE=The golden;52431109]Letting the kid grow up to decide their own gender identity is going to fuck them up? How? Please explain in a way that isn't just "Because it makes me feel uncomfortable." Because I sure as shit would have loved to been raised like this. You know what [B]DID [/B]fuck me up? Being raised as a person that I wasn't. Being forced into a body that I don't want. THAT fucked me up and I'm still struggling with the aftermath today and probably will for quite some time. To all the people shitting on this: Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who was forced to live with a body they can't stand. Imagine your parent(s) forcing you to be someone that you're not and having to live everyday as a lie. Imagine wanting to cry or even outright kill yourself every time you look in the mirror. This parent is giving their child the ability to choose who he/she wants to be in the future. An incredible choice many of us were never given. I have incredible respect for that.[/QUOTE] I feel like you're just projecting your situation onto a babu that can't talk let alone have agency. When did you find out you didn't like your body? If you don't mind me asking how old are you? [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Jordax;52431081]I honestly thought that was the baby's dad at first when first seeing those pictures without much context. I'm still not convinced really if that is actually the mom or not. Are there even pictures of the father then? A Canadian needs to explain to me why Canadian women apparently look like that and why they can have their gender on their ID's as ''UNKNOWN'' as well. Did Canada suddenly become a Monty Python sketch or something like that?[/QUOTE] It's just someone who wants attention

[QUOTE=Sky King;52430407]Women and men metabolize medication differently this is dangerous and stupid.[/QUOTE] i mean i'm pretty sure they have what physical sex the baby is recorded somewhere, it's not like a doctor in the future is just gonna wing it based off what their health card says on it

[QUOTE=Camdude90;52431279]i mean i'm pretty sure they have what physical sex the baby is recorded somewhere, it's not like a doctor in the future is just gonna wing it based off what their health card says on it[/QUOTE] It likely still is, but this person's still probably gonna try and stop that. [QUOTE][Kori] wants to keep Searyl's sex off all official records.[/QUOTE] This person's line of thinking is... worrisome to say the least.

[QUOTE=1239the;52430232]to all the people inevitably freaking out about hburr durr bad for medical reasons biology: the identifier is literally meant to be changed later once the child is comfortable with their gender identity. if they're cis, then it'll be changed to reflect that.[/QUOTE] I don't know how it is in Canada, but in Germany the biological sex is on the birth certificate. The biological sex is not a social construct. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod4ever;52430562]For some reason, the images didn't expire for me. I reuploaded them to imgur, for everyone to... enjoy. :pudge: [t]http://i.imgur.com/QbRZZvK.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Oh, look, it is sex not gender on the birth certificate. This is retarded. Fuck you manwomanperson. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=The golden;52431109]Letting the kid grow up to decide their own gender identity is going to fuck them up? How? Please explain in a way that isn't just "Because it makes me feel uncomfortable." [/QUOTE] You should be the best at knowing the difference between gender and sex.

Gender identity =/= sex. I feel like as a trans person, the mother should be blatantly aware of this. Gender identity can totally be up to the kid or totally non-existent in their earlier months and years, sure, but biological sex is a necessity in terms of medical treatments throughout life and unless it's been discussed with a doctor in terms of being treated medically as a different sex than one was born as, this is inherently harmful to the child's upbringing. Let the kid decide their gender, totally. But if we're talking about sex, it should - until the child is of an age to understand and speak with their doctor about it - be noted as what they were born as.

[QUOTE=The golden;52431084]Your amazing display of transphobia has been noted. Thanks for being such a nice person. I'd love to know what great injustice this person did to you that warrants you mistreating them and insulting them.[/QUOTE] thinking someone is ugly isn't transphobic, i think this should be made clear i agree on not judging based on appearance, etc(i do it tho it just comes naturally, as im sure most people do), but don't label people as things they aren't, people always jump to "You must be racist/transphobic/MRA trash/etc" when it's not the case and it looks dumb on the person calling it out, like they're using it to get leverage against someone they dislike, it's literally affecting society right now, with false calls against everyone

[QUOTE=Camdude90;52431279]i mean i'm pretty sure they have what physical sex the baby is recorded somewhere, it's not like a doctor in the future is just gonna wing it based off what their health card says on it[/QUOTE] The problem is the health card is often the first source of information. That or any other form of ID. Sometimes you just gotta make do with the info you have. This is honestly stupid and should be ILLEGAL. While not many common treatments are different between men and women, you CAN overdose somebody due to no information, or not give them enough because you give them a safe dose when it comes to harder drugs. This is child and future endangerment and should not in any way be allowed.

[QUOTE=The golden;52431084]Your amazing display of transphobia has been noted. Thanks for being such a nice person. I'd love to know what great injustice this person did to you that warrants you mistreating them and insulting them.[/QUOTE] Why is it when ever a trans person does something completely stupid and retarded anybody that points it out is "transphobic". I dont give a fuck if you want to fuck your face or gentials up with surgery, thats your choice and im perfectly fine with that. If you truly believe your a women or guy go for it. Doesnt concern me or anybody else. but dont fuck with a god damn little kids life before they are old enough to make these choice themselves.

[QUOTE=Sky King;52431565] but dont fuck with a god damn little kids life before they are old enough to make these choice themselves.[/QUOTE] that's what their intentions sound like too bad they don't care that their child will be bullied to fucking moon

[QUOTE=The golden;52431109]Letting the kid grow up to decide their own gender identity is going to fuck them up? How? Please explain in a way that isn't just "Because it makes me feel uncomfortable." Because I sure as shit would have loved to been raised like this. You know what [B]DID [/B]fuck me up? Being raised as a person that I wasn't. Being forced into a body that I don't want. THAT fucked me up and I'm still struggling with the aftermath today and probably will for quite some time. To all the people shitting on this: Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who was forced to live with a body they can't stand. Imagine your parent(s) forcing you to be someone that you're not and having to live everyday as a lie. Imagine wanting to cry or even outright kill yourself every time you look in the mirror. This parent is giving their child the ability to choose who he/she wants to be in the future. An incredible choice many of us were never given. I have incredible respect for that.[/QUOTE] So you are telling me that at the age of 1 week you was already hating the body you had and became transgender? Kids dont have any concept of these kind of things. When they get old enough then they can change. Its that simple. But this isnt giving them a "choice" in the future. This is forcing them into something before they can even form rational thought.

[QUOTE=The golden;52431109] Because I sure as shit would have loved to been raised like this. You know what [B]DID [/B]fuck me up? Being raised as a person that I wasn't. Being forced into a body that I don't want. THAT fucked me up and I'm still struggling with the aftermath today and probably will for quite some time. [/QUOTE] Can you elaborate exactly what did they want you to do, that you hated to do and didn't want?

[QUOTE=The golden;52431109]Letting the kid grow up to decide their own gender identity is going to fuck them up? How? Please explain in a way that isn't just "Because it makes me feel uncomfortable."[/QUOTE] A child can still be raised essentially gender neutral and pliant to their wishes even if they have a defined legal sex. Leaving it undefined will just be a headache for health providers, among other issues.

[QUOTE=download;52430284]That's so utterly pretentious.[/QUOTE] i feel like the story behind this is she didn't capitalize her name on a report in law school and argued that that is her real name...

I don't like it when people treat their kids like fashion statements or political statements. This wreaks of that.

[QUOTE=YOMIURA;52431604]A child can still be raised essentially gender neutral and pliant to their wishes even if they have a defined legal sex. Leaving it undefined will just be a headache for health providers, among other issues.[/QUOTE] Kids naturally conform to a gender at a young age. It is normal and natural. This obviously can change later in life but forcing the kid into a imaginary "gender neutral" position is just going to fuck their head up before they are old enough to even KNOW if they feel like they are meant to be a girl and boy. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52431613]I don't like it when people treat their kids like fashion statements or political statements. This wreaks of that.[/QUOTE] I personally believe these types of parents should be warned to knock it off or lose custody.

-mess-

[QUOTE=The golden;52431109]Letting the kid grow up to decide their own gender identity is going to fuck them up? How? Please explain in a way that isn't just "Because it makes me feel uncomfortable." Because I sure as shit would have loved to been raised like this. You know what [B]DID [/B]fuck me up? Being raised as a person that I wasn't. Being forced into a body that I don't want. THAT fucked me up and I'm still struggling with the aftermath today and probably will for quite some time. To all the people shitting on this: Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who was forced to live with a body they can't stand. Imagine your parent(s) forcing you to be someone that you're not and having to live everyday as a lie. Imagine wanting to cry or even outright kill yourself every time you look in the mirror. This parent is giving their child the ability to choose who he/she wants to be in the future. An incredible choice many of us were never given. I have incredible respect for that.[/QUOTE] I am like, 100% sure this has nothing to do with a letter on your birth certificate and everything to do with your parents being shit people, assuming they really were that bad and you're not overreacting with a fat dose of hindsight topping it.

[QUOTE=YOMIURA;52431663]They don't. Because must upbringings and societies equivilent self to certain precepts of gender identity based upon their sex, they can end up internalizing many behaviors as a kid that they do not agree with or feel isn't them. This, being clear, isn't a problem even with gender identity, it happens these issues usually magnify if it ends up being an issue of gender identity. Regardless, the best way to respect your child is a neutral upbringing that teaches them to analyze and be wary of implicit societal expectations and behaviors for their sex. That way they can adopt and reject what they want, instead of the angst filled and often incoherent process that happens instead years down the line when a person is trying to be who they truely feel they are. Sorry for mess of words, I am having difficulty explaining my point.[/QUOTE] I dont know dude. If my girlfriend gives birth to a boy. Im going to treat him exactly like a boy. Buy him blue baby clothes and have him going to the boys restroom. If he grows up and tells me that he feels like he is a girl, I'll be supportive and be completely cool with it. I dont see how that is that is bad at all. I dont think having him overanalyzing "implicit societal expectations and behaviors for their sex" and pretending they dont have a penis is in anyway healthy. Just let him grow up as a normal kid like his peers, he can make that choice later since there probably wont even be a choice to be made since the vast majority of kids dont suddenly turn transgender out of nowhere.

[QUOTE=The golden;52431168][URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex[/URL] Can explain it better than I can. It's very real and very possible. Sex and gender are not simple black&white things and are quite varied and fluid. It's wise to never make such assumptions.[/QUOTE] Ok so this whole thing is clearly the result of a big misunderstanding, probably because the article actually doesn't clarify this factor whatsoever. If the kid is intersex then yes, putting male or female would be wrong. [i]However[/i], it's unclear from the article whether this is actually the case. The article doesn't say anything about what junk they have in their trunk. The article quotes the parent as saying that they can't tell what sex the baby is, but the important thing to note here is that the parent is not saying that they can't tell what sex [i]this particular[/i] baby is, such as because it's sex is unclear. Rather they're saying that the sex of babies [i]in general[/i] cannot be determined at birth. Which, whether this baby is intersex or not, is false, and opens a strong possibility that the reason behind this request is not that the baby is intersex. Based on the quotes given, it seems like the parent doesn't really recognize the difference between sex and gender and uses them interchangeably. For example. [quote]"The assignment of sex in this culture is done when a medical person lifts up the legs and looks at the baby's genitals. But we know that the baby's own gender identity will not develop for some years until after they're born."[/quote] And [quote]"the parent said that the authorities have refused to issue the birth certificate without a gender designation" (The birth certificate lists sex, not gender)[/quote] This is what people are responding to. You're right that if the baby actually is intersex then this would be correct, but there seems to be a very strong possibility that that is not actually the case here. Also refusing to use capital letters in your name is rather silly.

[QUOTE=Sky King;52431745]I dont know dude. If my girlfriend gives birth to a boy. Im going to treat him exactly like a boy. Buy him blue baby clothes and have him going to the boys restroom. If he grows up and tells me that he feels like he is a girl, I'll be supportive and be completely cool with it. I dont see how that is that is bad at all. I dont think having him overanalyzing "implicit societal expectations and behaviors for their sex" and pretending they dont have a penis is in anyway healthy. Just let him grow up as a normal kid like his peers, he can make that choice later since there probably wont even be a choice to be made since the vast majority of kids dont suddenly turn transgender out of nowhere.[/QUOTE] Like I apologize, sorry for mess of words. We are on same page, but I am having trouble saying my point on a small portion of what you wrote. Never mind.

[QUOTE=1239the;52430232]to all the people inevitably freaking out about hburr durr bad for medical reasons biology: the identifier is literally meant to be changed later once the child is comfortable with their gender identity. if they're cis, then it'll be changed to reflect that.[/QUOTE] you dolt some medical problems are different for boys and girls so sex is something a doctor needs to fucking KNOW my objection to this is for reasons of safety not for some trans oppression gambit [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=download;52430284]That's so utterly pretentious.[/QUOTE] "My name is spelled without capital letters. People make many assumptions about why that is. Here is the story. I have always signed my name without capital letters. When I was taking a Master of Laws degree in 1990, I had letterhead designed and my name was in lower case. I liked it, so I continued it when I returned to private practice in 1992. " 'i like it like that' is snowflakey as hell but not really pretentious [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52430571]You're stripping the kid of one of the most fundamental and foundational facets of their identities, when they most need those basic low resolution cornerstones to ultimately build their identity as an individual. And to grow up "without outside" influences is impossible, and it's incredibly damaging to try. Outside influences exist for a reason, it's because the only things that survive long periods of time is that which reasonably functions within the real world. And to reject them for it's own sake is as asinine as it is fantastically arrogant. This kid is fucked, if he turns out normal it will be an absolute miracle. And in no part due to the 'help' of the parents, either. I'm sure there's some context for why the kid's wearing them, but the image of earmuffs on the kid in public is just too perfect a symbol for what they're doing to him[/QUOTE] this isn't about identity why are you bringing identity into this if your dick is THE foundational cornerstone of your identity you need a hobby or something damn dude this is about fucking safety

Every time this kid goes to the emergency room they're gonna have a nurse get the kid naked so they know the sex of the little fella then when the nurse tells the doctor "oh yes, dr.. his gender is x/y" the mother will stroke her beard and go "did you just assume my child's gender???" Good god I have nothing wrong with people being trans or non binary but don't force that shit on a child.

[QUOTE=The golden;52431109]Letting the kid grow up to decide their own gender identity is going to fuck them up? How? Please explain in a way that isn't just "Because it makes me feel uncomfortable." Because I sure as shit would have loved to been raised like this. You know what [B]DID [/B]fuck me up? Being raised as a person that I wasn't. Being forced into a body that I don't want. THAT fucked me up and I'm still struggling with the aftermath today and probably will for quite some time. To all the people shitting on this: Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who was forced to live with a body they can't stand. Imagine your parent(s) forcing you to be someone that you're not and having to live everyday as a lie. Imagine wanting to cry or even outright kill yourself every time you look in the mirror. This parent is giving their child the ability to choose who he/she wants to be in the future. An incredible choice many of us were never given. I have incredible respect for that.[/QUOTE] And what if the kid in this instance is completely comfortable as whichever sex and/or gender they were born as, but has the expectation that they're not, imposed upon them by their parents? This is the flipside of that same coin. A good parent would treat their child normally, and support them 100% whether or not they come to the conclusion of being uncomfortable with their sex or gender, rather than pigeonholing them into gender-neutrality from the get-go, or refusing to acknowledge their gender-dysphoria IF present. Anything else just opens the kid up to more confusion and bullying than they'd face otherwise. All in all, this feels like like a self-serving act on the part of the parents more than anything else - projecting their own condition and ideology on to their child who can't even speak English yet.

[QUOTE=The golden;52431109]Letting the kid grow up to decide their own gender identity is going to fuck them up? How? Please explain in a way that isn't just "Because it makes me feel uncomfortable." Because I sure as shit would have loved to been raised like this. You know what [B]DID [/B]fuck me up? Being raised as a person that I wasn't. Being forced into a body that I don't want. THAT fucked me up and I'm still struggling with the aftermath today and probably will for quite some time. To all the people shitting on this: Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who was forced to live with a body they can't stand. Imagine your parent(s) forcing you to be someone that you're not and having to live everyday as a lie. Imagine wanting to cry or even outright kill yourself every time you look in the mirror. This parent is giving their child the ability to choose who he/she wants to be in the future. An incredible choice many of us were never given. I have incredible respect for that.[/QUOTE] You do not [i]decide[/i] your gender identity. If you could, there would be absolutely no troubles for transgender people, because they could just choose to be whatever is the easiest in society. It's just like saying you can decide to be gay. What a ridiculous notion. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] Also, this entire thing is fucking ridiculous. The most liberal estimate I can find is that [b]0.435% of US persons[/b] are transgender, yet the claim is that raising every child in a "gender neutral" environment is a good idea because "what if they are transgender?" Well, based on statistics, it's incredibly likely that they're not. You're essentially saying that [b]99.56% of all people[/b] should have their entire identity fucked with from birth so that [b]0.435%[/b] of them might have an easier time. That sounds like a great way to have an incredibly dysfunctional generation.

If you were to ask me "Who are you" I'd probably have a hard time telling you who I am, can't imagine it being any easier for a child. It's probably one of the hardest questions you can be asked.

Wow that kid is going to have a lot of fun dealing with health insurance.

You guys just don't understand, it's a good thing for children to be brought up in a gender neutral environment because of the patriarchy. It wants to fit these children into gender assigned roles and prevent them from becoming who they want to be, especially females which is sexist and oppressive. Ya'll also need to understand there isn't just two genders but rather 76 genders (or possibly even millions) and it's for the child to decide who exactly they want to be as well as what gender they are when they are of age.