Dying man who couldn't afford to go to hospital after vomiting blood left moving final message on FB - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=plunger435;52627096]You shouldn't need an elementary school teacher to tell you that dying requires immediate medical attention.[/QUOTE] I don't think that's the part anyone needs education on.

[QUOTE=snookypookums;52625870][IMG]https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/08/28/10/conansoranno.jpg[/IMG] [URL]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/conan-soranno-couldnt-afford-private-healthcare-los-angeles-photographer-vomited-blood-a7916191.html?cmpid=facebook-post[/URL] Jesus, this was harrowing to read. :frown:[/QUOTE] As fucked up as this sounds, this man made a huge fucking mistake. All hospitals will offer you emergency treatment, and some may not even charge for it. My girlfriend had a sudden bout of blood in her stool & vomiting that we had to take her to Kaiser for. The only insurance she has is her school insurance, which Kaiser didn't take. However, we didn't get billed for any of the treatment, only the medicine that we had to pick up, due to their financial assistance program. Even if you fear homelessness, why would you put a price tag on your own life? I suspect there might have been a different reason that he chose death over treatment.

I fear that harmful misinformation or lack of proper information in regards to the true potential costs of American healthcare were behind his decision. He would've gotten treatment. He may have survived, he may or may not have ended up homeless. Either way, he decided not even try, and ended up dying for it. I'm in favor of a better system, and what we got is in no way a good one, but no hospital in the country will turn you away. You don't have to pay at the door. He could've gone in and got treatment without paying a dime for some time. I fear he made the choice to die due to a lack of information of his options to live. The American system is bad, but it will treat you regardless of your ability to pay. You don't have to choose to die.

[QUOTE=Worldwaker;52627084]They don't understand because nowhere in the US education system is mandated to [I]teach[/I] those things. Nor are children taught about when they should seek medical care, or for that matter, basic first aid. As for the why as to his choice, it's not for me to guess at as to why he made his decision. [B]I think an important thing to consider is that he probably wasn't in any state to make decisions to begin with.[/B][/QUOTE] If he was coherent enough to post on facebook and make calls about the situation right before his death, he was in a well enough state of mind to cart his ass to the hospital. There's something seriously fishy about this, it's like he wanted to die. Again, he raised enough money to cover himself for 4 whole months, everything aside he would have been just fine, financially and otherwise, had he gone to the hospital. It really, really, really doesn't make sense.

He should've went to the hospital. Even though he didn't have the money, he [I]needed[/I] that emergency treatment, and there's no way they would turn him away. It's better to be fiscally dead than physically. Though, if he did decide to go through with it, I'm pretty sure he would be one step away from declaring bankruptcy, depending on how the doctors would've treated him. If he was already struggling to pay bills (even with a goddamn fundraiser), [I]and[/I] had to sell his car, medical bills on top would've broken the camel's back.

[QUOTE=Omilinon;52627236]He should've went to the hospital. Even though he didn't have the money, he [I]needed[/I] that emergency treatment, and there's no way they would turn him away. It's better to be fiscally dead than physically. Though, if he did decide to go through with it, I'm pretty sure he would be one step away from declaring bankruptcy, depending on how the doctors would've treated him. If he was already struggling to pay bills (even with a goddamn fundraiser), [I]and[/I] had to sell his car, medical bills on top would've broken the camel's back.[/QUOTE] It's like none of you guys are reading the article. The dude said he needed $600 a month to stay afloat and afford the medical care. He raised $2600 - more than enough for 4 months, during which time he could have applied for the necessary financial aide and/or filed for bankruptcy. If you can't pay bills because you simply lack the income, then don't pay them. If you have no assets, you aren't at risk, and can file for bankruptcy. This takes a few minutes on google to figure out.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52626089]What was his illness even?[/QUOTE] Tried to scan the article but I can't find anything. I'm really curious as well.

[QUOTE=patq911;52625959]He really should have gone to the hospital even if he thinks the can't afford it. At some point he probably would have been able to receive medicaid.[/QUOTE] Nah. Approval takes forever and you basically get rejected over and over unless you have an in with the people processing your claim, and the Trump admin has already placed even more restrictions on it than there were.

[QUOTE=27X;52627442]Nah. Approval takes forever and you basically get rejected over and over unless you have an in with the people processing your claim, and the Trump admin has already placed even more restrictions on it than there were.[/QUOTE] There are currently 74 million people enrolled in Medicaid and CHIP in a country with a population of 323 million. With 43 million Americans under the poverty line. It's not as hard to get Medicaid as you might think.

[QUOTE=plunger435;52626762]Medicaid does magically make it disappear my dude. This guy is clearly poor enough to be on welfare and medicaid. I pay for Medicaid in my taxes so people as poor as this guy can get free treatment, which he didn't want to get.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't, not even kinda. There is a pay-in cap, and there is a level of care cap. If you have medicaid already and have systemic or persistent cancer or some other life threatening condition that is ongoing or persistent you are absolutely fucked because there is no way the cap is going to cover everything.

[QUOTE=27X;52627470]No it doesn't, not even kinda. There is a pay-in cap, and there is a level of care cap. If you have medicaid already and have systemic or persistent cancer or some other life threatening condition that is ongoing or persistent you are absolutely fucked because there is no way the cap is going to cover everything.[/QUOTE] Medicaid would have paid for this guys ER trip, it's not even arguable.

[QUOTE=plunger435;52627460]There are currently 74 million people enrolled in Medicaid and CHIP in a country with a population of 323 million. With 43 million Americans under the poverty line. It's not as hard to get Medicaid as you might think.[/QUOTE] That's neat, but growing up I was poor as fuck and enrolled in the program so I'm pretty sure I have better handle on it than you do.

[QUOTE=27X;52627477]That's neat, but growing up I was poor as fuck and enrolled in the program so I'm pretty sure I have better handle on it than you do.[/QUOTE] So what you're saying is you didn't interact with it at all after the ACA come into play. I work part time at the University of Utah Hospital and people come in to sign up for medicaid all the time, we had an entire one month long period of open enrollment in medicaid. Fact is Medicaid is easier to get than ever before right now, get it while you can. Don't make the mistake of assuming some personal anecdote on your behalf represents every single person in the US.

[QUOTE=plunger435;52627476]Medicaid would have paid for this guys ER trip, it's not even arguable.[/QUOTE] Depends entirely on the hospital, and what his actual deal was. If it was a condition that required several major operations there is zero guarantee medicaid would have covered everything, and conversely the hospital might have decided to do the treatment themselves and consider it a writeoff without even invoking medicaid. Unlikely but possible. Medicaid is not a blanket word that just covers expenses when you say it out loud.

[QUOTE=27X;52627512]Depends entirely on the hospital, and what his actual deal was. If it was condition that required several major operations there is zero guarantee medicaid would have covered everything, and conversely the hospital might have decided to do the treatment themselves and consider it a writeoff without even invoking medicaid. Unlikely but possible. Medicaid is not a blanket word that just covers expenses when you say it out loud.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It seems like the majority of the thread don't understand how medicaid, debt forgiveness, and healthcare in general work.[/QUOTE] Which is why I've already mentioned debt forgiveness in an early post on this very page. I was addressing medicaid because you specifcially name checked that one. [QUOTE]No it doesn't, not even kinda. There is a pay-in cap, and there is a level of care cap. [B]If you have medicaid already and have systemic or persistent cancer or some other life threatening condition that is ongoing or persistent you are absolutely fucked because there is no way the cap is going to cover everything.[/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=plunger435;52627509]So what you're saying is you didn't interact with it at all after the ACA come into play. I work part time at the University of Utah Hospital and people come in to sign up for medicaid all the time, we had an entire one month long period of open enrollment in medicaid. Fact is Medicaid is easier to get than ever before right now, get it while you can. Don't make the mistake of assuming some personal anecdote on your behalf represents every single person in the US.[/QUOTE] Considering I fill out my neighbor's ACA provider's renewal forms every six months because their english sucks and they keep receiving the forms in english instead of their native language, I'm still rather familiar with it. Debt forgiveness is not guaranteed, there is a cap on provided care and there are conditions and treatments the local insurance carrier may decide they don't want to cover and in rural areas hospital may not even have the programs and equipment to treat in the first place. Not really sure why you think every hospital in America would have exactly the same level of staff or equipment, and I'm not talking about the guy's immediate visit as OvB and other pointed out that not's even an issue in any scenario. He could have [I]gone[/I] to the hospital "for free", staying at the hospital or actually fixing his issue is entirely another matter, and the implementation of those concerns in American medical care is a revolving shitshow and the two words that completely defenestrate your theorycraft is Veteran's Affairs.

[QUOTE=Jackald;52627532]You know your country's fucked up when your primary way of funding healthcare is GoFundMe[/QUOTE] It's not.

[QUOTE=Jackald;52627532]You know your country's fucked up when your primary way of funding healthcare is GoFundMe[/QUOTE] Did you read the thread at all?

This sounds more like a mental health issue to me... His state expanded medicare... Meaning- if he was as poor as the article leads you to believe he would qualify for that program. They would then pay for the vast majority of costs. Medicare aside- hospitals will not deny you treatment for situations like this. He could have went to the hospital and didnt...

It is illegal for a hospital to turn away patients in the ER. This guy should have went to the hospital regardless of having insurance or not, like how was that even a question in his mind? They are legally responsible to provide care and get you stable. They keep you until you are stable again and then you get released. Hell, homeless people often go to the ER for a meal and a place to sleep and the hospital is legally required to take them in. Worst case senario he racks up a ton of medical bills and files for chapter 7 bankruptcy and it all gets cleared. Quite a bit better than dying.

I don't think he was worried that they wouldn't accept him, but rather about what would happen afterwards. [editline]30th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Ajacks;52627798]Quite a bit better than dying.[/QUOTE] Is it really though? I mean any life should be worth more than none, but sometimes that's not so obvious.

[QUOTE=OvB;52626060]He should've gone to the hospital anyway... [editline]29th August 2017[/editline] It's not like they turn you away at the door if you don't have a credit card lol. They cannot deny you emergency treatment.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=evilweazel;52626070]Why didn't he go? Like, worst case scenario, debt is better than being, uh, dead. In my book, anywho. They'd literally HAVE to treat you. It's not like there's some guy at the ER entrance taking down credit card numbers and the like. :v: Even then, if the guy is that poor, there would be ways to set payment plans, or get it covered through medicare or otherwise..... It sucks that he felt he was forced to die, but he had other options.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MR-X;52626072]Doesn't make sense to me. He could have easily went to the hospital and got billed later. On top of that if he didn't have money he could have used the money he got donated for rent. Like none of it makes sense, it is still sad.[/QUOTE] Makes plenty of sense to me I grew up lower class as fuck. My family was almost homeless because of one medical bill when I was a kid because my brother was hospitalised with pneumonia. They froze my parent's bank accounts due to being unable to pay them the outrageous costs. As a result we almost got foreclosed on in the dead middle of winter because guess what happens when suddenly you can't spend or receive any money and you have two small children and bills to pay? I lived on the street as a teen for a few weeks when I had ran away from home one year, it was fucking brutal, I almost died of hypothermia and I'm damn lucky I had a good friend who's family took me in. I wouldn't recommend it. It's not just "debt" like you can just meh it away and it'll get paid eventually. No no. There's major fucking consequences to that shit. You will end up homeless, you will die on the street because now your credit is tanked to lower than low so you couldn't rent a place even if you could afford it, which you can't because your wages are probably being garnished(assuming you still even have a job, because you've probably lost that by now too), it's shit. If you're lucky you're not on the street because you've been arrested for being homeless and then you're just another kind of absolutely fucked. They can't deny you treatment yeah but that doesn't mean they can't ruin your fucking life for receiving it anyway. [QUOTE=Ajacks;52627798] Worst case senario he racks up a ton of medical bills and files for chapter 7 bankruptcy and it all gets cleared. Quite a bit better than dying.[/QUOTE] Not really. Do you know what filing chapter 7 entails? It doesn't just suddenly make all the debt up and disappear dude, it's not that simple. You have to get a court hearing and they have to literally determine that you're unable to pay it, which means freezing your assets and doing an audit, something you can't have happen if you gotta feed a family. It really isn't that easy, also legal fees apply if you're not completely absolved of your debts. If you have student debt you can't bankruptcy that away at all either, fun fucking fact. Do you have to provide for a family? If you did you'd understand why this literally isn't an option either way anyway. You declare a default on your debts and you loose your house, car, everything you don't outright own, and even then the courts might decide that you have to use those assets as leverage to pay your debts anyway. So good luck losing all your possessions too. The US healthcare system only barely works for the middle class who can afford insurance, anyone who's lower class will probably be in a situation where they choose between killing themselves or possibly their spouse and children too, if their children don't get taken away to foster care from them or some shit. There's a LOT of variables here that taking on the egregious medical debts of the US healthcare system entail, it's not as simple as "well living is clearly better than dying lol" like you guys are making it out to be. Maybe a good number of people would be able to come out of it alright, because they're middle class or better, but for a good many people they're gambling their very life either way, and that's the fucked up part.

Healthcare is not a political issue, it is a human rights issue. We cannot keep letting this shit happen, I appeal to the libertarians, even if healthcare was the only thing you would be paying taxes for, you would not be paying that much more to stop shit like this happening. Universal Healthcare is the only way forward.

Going to the ER can really fuck you over. I went to the ER because someone I knew called the cops to keep me from killing myself. All they did was check me in, do some blood work, and hold me for a couple of hours, and I was billed $2200 for it. That debt alone is going to fuck me over, since I work at Wal-Mart for $10.50/hour, and I have bills and other debts that I need to pay. Our country needs a huge change in healthcare, because there are tons of people out there who just cannot go get the help they need because they need to also focus on making sure they have a roof over their head.

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52628281]Makes plenty of sense to me I grew up lower class as fuck. My family was almost homeless because of one medical bill when I was a kid because my brother was hospitalised with pneumonia. They froze my parent's bank accounts due to being unable to pay them the outrageous costs. As a result we almost got foreclosed on in the dead middle of winter because guess what happens when suddenly you can't spend or receive any money and you have two small children and bills to pay? I lived on the street as a teen for a few weeks when I had ran away from home one year, it was fucking brutal, I almost died of hypothermia and I'm damn lucky I had a good friend who's family took me in. I wouldn't recommend it. It's not just "debt" like you can just meh it away and it'll get paid eventually. No no. There's major fucking consequences to that shit. You will end up homeless, you will die on the street because now your credit is tanked to lower than low so you couldn't rent a place even if you could afford it, which you can't because your wages are probably being garnished(assuming you still even have a job, because you've probably lost that by now too), it's shit. If you're lucky you're not on the street because you've been arrested for being homeless and then you're just another kind of absolutely fucked. They can't deny you treatment yeah but that doesn't mean they can't ruin your fucking life for receiving it anyway. Not really. Do you know what filing chapter 7 entails? It doesn't just suddenly make all the debt up and disappear dude, it's not that simple. You have to get a court hearing and they have to literally determine that you're unable to pay it, which means freezing your assets and doing an audit, something you can't have happen if you gotta feed a family. It really isn't that easy, also legal fees apply if you're not completely absolved of your debts. If you have student debt you can't bankruptcy that away at all either, fun fucking fact. Do you have to provide for a family? If you did you'd understand why this literally isn't an option either way anyway. You declare a default on your debts and you loose your house, car, everything you don't outright own, and even then the courts might decide that you have to use those assets as leverage to pay your debts anyway. So good luck losing all your possessions too. The US healthcare system only barely works for the middle class who can afford insurance, anyone who's lower class will probably be in a situation where they choose between killing themselves or possibly their spouse and children too, if their children don't get taken away to foster care from them or some shit. There's a LOT of variables here that taking on the egregious medical debts of the US healthcare system entail, it's not as simple as "well living is clearly better than dying lol" like you guys are making it out to be. Maybe a good number of people would be able to come out of it alright, because they're middle class or better, but for a good many people they're gambling their very life either way, and that's the fucked up part.[/QUOTE] I am not saying the system is not screwed up but filing chapter 7 is not uncommon. Yes it drastically effects you but I personally know someone who has filed three times over their life time and had a family that entire time. It's better than dying.

[QUOTE=Megadave;52628394]Healthcare is not a political issue, it is a human rights issue. We cannot keep letting this shit happen, I appeal to the libertarians, even if healthcare was the only thing you would be paying taxes for, you would not be paying that much more to stop shit like this happening. Universal Healthcare is the only way forward.[/QUOTE] Health Care is very much a political issue. All health professionals will tell you that.

[QUOTE=patq911;52625959]He really should have gone to the hospital even if he thinks the can't afford it. At some point he probably would have been able to receive medicaid.[/QUOTE] I'd rather get angry letters for the rest of my life and be alive then to die

"Silly rabbit, nobody dies because they can't afford healthcare." Fuck this gay country.

You know hospitals used to have reasonable if not dirt cheap prices until sleazy insurance companies came along.