[QUOTE=Owner3;30988275]the maps are likely as small as BC2's to compensate for consoles[/QUOTE]
I agree with everything you said except this. It's pretty much a fact at this point that DICE is bringing BF back to the PC gamers with BF3. Now I know we have these disappointments like no mod support, but we can't let the disappointments drown out the good stuff we still have - like real conquest mode, with jets.
I dunno, jets + conquest to me = a big map. DICE has made it clear in various ways that BC2 was more of a CoD competitor designed to appeal to console games. I don't think air vehicles are going to be as useless as they are in BC2, and I certainly don't think we'll be getting small maps. In conquest mode that is.
[QUOTE=simkas;30937266]Are you seriously that fucking incapable of reading or what? It's not that "it's too hard", it's that "IT CAN'T BE DONE". The reasons why they can't release mod tools were all explained in that blog post and they're pretty much this - the only way you can compile anything with the tools they use is if you have access to the entire source code (which regular modders obviously don't), the only way they could even release any part of the code is they'd pay millions of dollars of licensing fees for all the third-party technologies they used in the engine and there's also that your regular modder PC would take probably more than a week just to compile a single map to a state where it could be tested in-game.[/QUOTE]
But it's fucking stupid of them to make the engine from scratch and make it incapable of supporting modding without paying loadsa moneh.
[QUOTE=dgg;30989077]But it's fucking stupid of them to make the engine from scratch and make it incapable of supporting modding without paying loadsa moneh.[/QUOTE]
Its actually cheaper for them since they're starting from scratch...
[QUOTE=Swilly;30999361]Its actually cheaper for them since they're starting from scratch...[/QUOTE]
What is cheaper for them? I'm not with you here.
Or did you misunderstand something? I hacked at them for making a engine from scratch that doesn't allow for modding possibilities without having to fork out tons of cash to make it possible because they would, for whatever the hell reason, need full access to the source code. Why would you do that?
[QUOTE=dgg;30999416]What is cheaper for them? I'm not with you here.
Or did you misunderstand something? I hacked at them for making a engine from scratch that doesn't allow for modding possibilities without having to fork out tons of cash to make it possible because they would, for whatever the hell reason, need full access to the source code. Why would you do that?[/QUOTE]
R&D, or do you know not know how costly it is to make a game with just a premade engine.
Why do people keep trying to compare this to crysis by saying it "looks just as nice"...?
I don't recall crysis having a fully destructible environment, nor vehicles and the such.
Also I honestly doubt that there would be many mods popping up that would be amazing to play since it would take the modders a couple of weeks to even see if their map is playable.
Not to mention all the idiots saying here that mods are the only reason battlefield 2 is alive. Seriously play the game, there's much more people playing vanilla battlefield 2 then there are playing PR and probably every other mod for battlefield 2 combined.
But hey, why play vanilla when you can bitch about there not being any mod support.
[editline]8th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Owner3;30988275]I can't say I'm surprised. DICE has been making many odd decisions ever since they released Bad Company (the original) exclusively for consoles. It's weird. DICE starts out as a famed PC developer, and out of nowhere, they release a Battlefield game only for consoles. A few years later, they port Bad Company 2 to the PC, but it doesn't feel like a Battlefield game. The gunplay feels like Call of Duty with slightly better weapon balancing and the maps are about 1/4 of the size they were in Battlefield 2. Then, you have "Specializations", which are pretty much identical to perks from CoD, and an arbitrary ranking system, where you have to do really dumb things, such as unlocking the defibrillator for the medic class. On top of that, no mod tools. Now, with BF3, it looks like BC2 all over again. The gunplay seems identical, the commander class is removed, the maps are likely as small as BC2's to compensate for consoles, and of course, no mod tools. I can't say I'm very surprised, based on DICE's recent track record.
i just realized i said two variations of "i can't say i'm surprised" in the same post, but oh well.[/QUOTE]
Bad company 2 doesn't play like call of duty at all, have you even played it?
Without any real information on the maps you're pretty much assuming that they're going to cripple the PC community to make the console versions playable. I recall them saying that they had the PC community in mind this turn, and they aren't dumb enough to make a 24 player map and let PC players play 64 on it or have console players play 24 players on a 64 player map.
They probably took this into account. And if battlefield 2 is such the perfect game to you then go fucking play it, it's not like they're trying to make a battlefield 2 clone here.
[editline]8th July 2011[/editline]
Also holy shit 'arbitrary' ranking system, have you even touched battlefield 2? Getting new items from the ranking system was even harder there and only allowed for you to pick one each rank you got. Bad company 2 allowed players to pretty much play through each class and unlock weapons/attatchments for that class. It didn't mean that a player who played all the classes was forced to only choose one for a specific class like battlefield 2 forced them to do. Ranks in bad company 2 do allow you to unlock weapons that can be used for each class though, incase you didn't know that.
Ok, I've heard two good reasons.
1. Lots of middle-ware tech that is in Frostbite 2 (animation system, lighting engine from Geomerics, etc.)
2. Map compile process takes some serious brute force processing power and also requires access to the source code, which is obviously not negotiable. (maybe a PC farm of processing power?)
It doesn't seem to be a problem of modders making content that bothers anyone, it's what the modders need to have access to which is not negotiable.
[QUOTE=Hostel;31002946]Ok, I've heard two good reasons.
1. Lots of middle-ware tech that is in Frostbite 2 (animation system, lighting engine from Geomerics, etc.)
2. Map compile process takes some serious brute force processing power and also requires access to the source code, which is obviously not negotiable. (maybe a PC farm of processing power?)
It doesn't seem to be a problem of modders making content that bothers anyone, it's what the modders need to have access to which is not negotiable.[/QUOTE]
I don't see why access to the source code is necessary for compiling the maps, at the very least they should have included a map editor
A full SDK for making total conversion mods isn't necessary I just want something to make the multiplayer interesting for more than 2 weeks
No! Bad DICE! Bad!
[QUOTE=Swilly;31000022]R&D, or do you know not know how costly it is to make a game with just a premade engine.[/QUOTE]
Of course it will cost money to spend time on making it moddable. Money you will earn back on the increased sales over time for it being able to be modded.
[QUOTE=dgg;31005564]Of course it will cost money to spend time on making it moddable. Money you will earn back on the increased sales over time for it being able to be modded.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, many people bought BF2 for PR, or FH2 alone.
They should let us decide if it's too complicated, some people out there will be more talented than the actual team.
[QUOTE=- Livewire -;31008190]They should let us decide if it's too complicated, some people out there will be more talented than the actual team.[/QUOTE]
Jesus christ, either Facepunch has the knowledge retention of a goldfish or you guys don't read any of the other threads.
[url]http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-pc/1350772-so-how-about-modtools.html[/url]
Now I'm disappointed with the lack of mod tools but I don't think they are doing this to sell more DLC. If they were, then they would have already done it with Bad Company 2, considering that doesn't have mod tools. Unless you guys can confirm that DICE is planning on making "map packs" similar to how our friends at Activision are (BC2 doesn't count because those map packs are basically free), I'd just remain skeptical.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;30958276]There are few good days left for the gaming world. It is now all a festering pile of shit and inter-corporate fighting. The days when these companies served the players is dead. Instead of doing what they are supposed to, they just take their power and run with it. To these companies, we are little more than cattle for them to milk. At this point, the best thing that could happen to the gaming world is if the whole thing collapsed. Go out before it hits rock bottom. Have a little dignity left when they fall, instead of taking the innocent with them.[/QUOTE]
Valve is still a great company. That proves you wrong.
[QUOTE=Profanwolf;31006197]Yeah, many people bought BF2 for PR, or FH2 alone.[/QUOTE]
More people bought it for Vanilla.
[editline]9th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Erebus.;31009008]Jesus christ, either Facepunch has the knowledge retention of a goldfish or you guys don't read any of the other threads.
[url]http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-pc/1350772-so-how-about-modtools.html[/url]
Now I'm disappointed with the lack of mod tools but I don't think they are doing this to sell more DLC. If they were, then they would have already done it with Bad Company 2, considering that doesn't have mod tools. Unless you guys can confirm that DICE is planning on making "map packs" similar to how our friends at Activision are (BC2 doesn't count because those map packs are basically free), I'd just remain skeptical.[/QUOTE]
Someone who actually has a fucking clue.
[QUOTE=Owner3;30988275]I can't say I'm surprised. DICE has been making many odd decisions ever since they released Bad Company (the original) exclusively for consoles. It's weird. DICE starts out as a famed PC developer, and out of nowhere, they release a Battlefield game only for consoles. A few years later, they port Bad Company 2 to the PC, but it doesn't feel like a Battlefield game. The gunplay feels like Call of Duty with slightly better weapon balancing and the maps are about 1/4 of the size they were in Battlefield 2. Then, you have "Specializations", which are pretty much identical to perks from CoD, and an arbitrary ranking system, where you have to do really dumb things, such as unlocking the defibrillator for the medic class. On top of that, no mod tools. Now, with BF3, it looks like BC2 all over again. The gunplay seems identical, the commander class is removed, [b]the maps are likely as small as BC2's to compensate for consoles[/b], and of course, no mod tools. I can't say I'm very surprised, based on DICE's recent track record.
i just realized i said two variations of "i can't say i'm surprised" in the same post, but oh well.[/QUOTE]
I'm quite sure I remember reading an article where one of the DICE devs said that the PC maps will be big and balanced for 64players while the console maps will be small to compensate for 24players and only the Jet people on consoles will get access to the 64versions so they don't die from going out of the map.
I'm fine with no modding tools.
[QUOTE=The golden;31010767][B]YOU[/B] think Valve is a great company. Your opinion is not fact.[/QUOTE]
And how is Valve NOT a great company, atleast compared to EA which he was complaining about?
[QUOTE=The golden;31010767][B]YOU[/B] think Valve is a great company. Your opinion is not fact.[/QUOTE]
Just like you're vocal constant criticism leans you credence that you hate them.
In fact, is there anyone you like anymore or are you like a stubborn old man who doesn't want to move on like a majority of people have.
I'm fine with no mod. Not buying the game because of no modding capability even the fact that you liked it at first is stupid.
[QUOTE=sa2fan;31019807]I'm fine with no mod. Not buying the game because of no modding capability even the fact that you liked it at first is stupid.[/QUOTE]
Liked what? Mods? If that's the case then I think you are a very rage educing person and I can't express my feelings through this post because it would probably get me banned.
[QUOTE=xeonmuffin;31019880]Liked what? Mods? If that's the case then I think you are a very rage educing person and I can't express my feelings through this post because it would probably get me banned.[/QUOTE]Oh that's why you are angry. I'm sorry, I meant if you liked BF3 at first then starting to hate it after they announced there wouldn't be mods.
[QUOTE=The golden;30974456]We know we they don't want to release tools for the public. I would impede on DLC profits.
There is no other reason for it. Games far more complicated than any Battlefield game have been given mod tools.[/QUOTE]
You've never seen or worked with Frostbite 2.0. I don't think you have a right to say that it's complicated or not.
The developers of the engine have seen and worked with Frostbite 2.0, and I'm going to believe them.
[QUOTE=Erebus.;31009008]Jesus christ, either Facepunch has the knowledge retention of a goldfish or you guys don't read any of the other threads.
[url]http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-pc/1350772-so-how-about-modtools.html[/url]
Now I'm disappointed with the lack of mod tools but I don't think they are doing this to sell more DLC. If they were, then they would have already done it with Bad Company 2, considering that doesn't have mod tools. Unless you guys can confirm that DICE is planning on making "map packs" similar to how our friends at Activision are (BC2 doesn't count because those map packs are basically free), I'd just remain skeptical.[/QUOTE]
Oh stop giving them the benefit of the doubt
They've clearly turned their back on the PC gaming community as mods are a fucking staple of PC gaming - I don't give two shits about any of their excuses because they simply do not care and have absolutely no interest in being truthful anymore
Uh, this guy who made this announcement; this "Patrick Söderlund" guy, is he actually part of DICE?
During that interview I noticed that it said he was the Senior Vice President of EA, and I'm not exactly sure if I can really completely trust that he didn't take a statement from DICE out of context or if he is saying this without even consulting DICE. EA doesn't seem to always be on the same page as DICE. Remember the Physical Warfare pack that EA advertised everywhere and didn't even inform DICE? I feel like it could be like that in a way.
I still find it unlikely that there will be mod tools, but I think I might just hold my breath for a little bit longer before calling them out on it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;31021202]Oh stop giving them the benefit of the doubt
They've clearly turned their back on the PC gaming community as mods are a fucking staple of PC gaming - I don't give two shits about any of their excuses because they simply do not care and have absolutely no interest in being truthful anymore[/QUOTE]
if they were turning their back on the pc community then they wouldn't have posted a well-reasoned explanation on their forums
they've given me every reason to give them the benefit of the doubt and all you've got is dumb rage
[QUOTE=The golden;31021791]I would be more inclined to believe them if the reasons they gave were not bullshit.[/QUOTE]
So you have a 2000 dollar video card specifically meant to render?
Because that's what they're using.
And I'm sure plenty of modders have Render farms....that's a staple for anyone right?
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;31021202]Oh stop giving them the benefit of the doubt
They've clearly turned their back on the PC gaming community as mods are a fucking staple of PC gaming - I don't give two shits about any of their excuses because they simply do not care and have absolutely no interest in being truthful anymore[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact they've gone out of their way to make this game PC friendly. And no, PC Modding isn't a staple of the entire PC community. Its large pockets that use different engines for different mods. There are websites dedicated TO PC modding just like there are websites dedicated to modding your consoles.
Modding is a good chunk of it, but to use no modding as the only excuse to say that DICE is stabbing PC gaming in the back is not only really silly, but just arrogant.
ah for fuck's sake
I want sandbox bf3
[QUOTE=elitehakor v2;30963991]Even if there was mod support for BF3 the PR devs won't make a PR for BF3 since they're already making their own game[/QUOTE]
I'm sure someone would've stepped up to the task. People really like games like ARMA and Project Reality.
[QUOTE=Swilly;30958936]Darwinia's Source code has been out for a year....
Nothing so far.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah but Darwinia to me does not even look slightly interesting to mod.
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