[QUOTE=Swilly;31011425]More people bought it for Vanilla.
[editline]9th July 2011[/editline]
Someone who actually has a fucking clue.[/QUOTE]
The point is it gave them more sales?
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jessey;31024449]Yeah but Darwinia to me does not even look slightly interesting to mod.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that was a terrible example really, small indie game vs HUGE game
[QUOTE=Zeke129;31021202]Oh stop giving them the benefit of the doubt
They've clearly turned their back on the PC gaming community as mods are a fucking staple of PC gaming - I don't give two shits about any of their excuses because they simply do not care and have absolutely no interest in being truthful anymore[/QUOTE]Ok.
[url]http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/89349770115690496[/url]
[QUOTE=Lizzrd;31026069]Ok.
[url]http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/89349770115690496[/url][/QUOTE]
Thank you DICE
Since you put it so clearly I will go ahead and accept the fact that we won't get the things that PC games have had for over a decade
No
[QUOTE=Wootman;30936084]Its out and they are terrible[/QUOTE]
just like black ops then.
It's not because it's too complex, DICE knows the PC community
They want to sell Back to Karkand is all
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
They might release it later once the sales die down though
DICE is one of my favorite games studios and I have massive amount of respect for them and still do. But how can they create an engine so expensive and hard to use they only they can use it, and they're unable to share with their community. I mean as Rusty100 said crysis engine is much more demanding than the frost bite engine, and crytek is able to create mod tools. Why can't this?
Wasn't one of the reasons that the Frostbite 2 development system was basically spread out over hundreds of different systems at DICE, and it'd be almost impossible to collate them into one tool.
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=-n3o-;31027615]DICE is one of my favorite games studios and I have massive amount of respect for them and still do. But how can they create an engine so expensive and hard to use they only they can use it, and they're unable to share with their community. I mean as Rusty100 said crysis engine is much more demanding than the frost bite engine, and crytek is able to create mod tools. Why can't this?[/QUOTE]
This isn't Frostbite though, this is Frostbite 2, which is a different thing entirely and a generation up from Cryengine.
[QUOTE=The golden;30945499]So they can release paid DLC mod/map packages.
I don't believe any bullshit reason EA or DICE gives, this is what I think.[/QUOTE]
Well no shit they are going to release DLC, but at least DICE aren't massive cocks about it. Assuming the game works kind of how BC2 did, updates with maps will be free, expansions like Vietnam will be paid. Back to Karkand is an expansion, so it's going to be paid, but just plain old maps will be free going by their track record.
DICE have a legitimate reason to not release these tools. As covered, they use so much middleware it is unreal, companies like Valve released their mod tools as they basically made everything (their version of Havok is so heavily modified that it is a separate entity they own). DICE do not have the money to pay off the licensing on that, most companies would with the amount of shit they used.
The maps contain an [B]obscene[/B] amount of data, with one light containing roughly the same amount of data as an entire BC2 lightmap. Computing that amount of data on a home PC just is not feasible, even a dedicated rendering machine with i7s or Xeons would be brought to a crawl working that out, and it would still take days or weeks depending on the complexity of the map.
Modders may be dedicated, but nobody in their right mind would willing sit through that just to test the map works. DICE can get it done in a decent amount of time through the use of server farms, which are ungodly expensive for a not for profit task like modding. No modders would willing pay for that knowing they cannot sell their shit on.
A lack of mod tools is not a game killer, if you refuse to buy the game because of this, fine. Got sit in the corner with the people who hate Origin (even though it will have no impact on retail or version bought from other digital services). We won't miss you.
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
Besides, in the future, they may be able to release a limited toolkit that can only make like, small gamemode style modifications. The mapping part would require such ridiculous computing requirements that basically no modders would be able to do anything of value with it.
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
I've had to correct this post like 4 times now. God damn my spelling gets bad when I touchtype.
This engine sure as hell can create wonderful mind blowing things, but it sure is crap at the same time. I mean look at the crysis 1 engine absolutely out standing when it first came out and still is to this day and they still had mod support. This is really a massive design fail here.
[QUOTE=-n3o-;31027893]This engine sure as hell can create wonderful mind blowing things, but it sure is crap at the same time. I mean look at the crysis 1 engine absolutely out standing when it first came out and still is to this day and they still had mod support. This is really a massive design fail here.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I don't think DICE were really paying attention to extensibility when they were making it. Companies like Crytek and Unreal have massive teams designated to making game engines, they take massive amounts of time to push entirely new games and engines out. DICE aren't that big, they've had to make the engine (they admitted it's basically been re-written since FB1.5) in a much smaller time frame.
I see, well it will be interesting to see what DICE does with its new engine.
BF3 will keep my interest for all of 6 hours if there aren't mods.
I'm sure some third party ones will be made at some point all the same
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swilly;30958936]Darwinia's Source code has been out for a year....
Nothing so far.
[/QUOTE]
That's because no one gives a fuck
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;31028980]BF3 will keep my interest for all of 6 hours if there aren't mods.[/QUOTE]
you only play the singleplayer? lol because if you do, don't buy the game at all.
multiplayer is where it's at. and sniping for that matter, it's gonna be awesome.
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
i'm expecting at least 20-40hours of fun time in multiplayer.
don't care for singleplayer that much so it doesn't count.
[QUOTE=-n3o-;31027893]This engine sure as hell can create wonderful mind blowing things, but it sure is crap at the same time. I mean look at the crysis 1 engine absolutely out standing when it first came out and still is to this day and they still had mod support. This is really a massive design fail here.[/QUOTE]
As was said by the DICE dev in the BC2 forum, this is the current state for most in-house engine's, they are built to work in a specific environment, a large group of people, and a specific content creation pipline. Crytek on the other hand is almost as much of a game technology company as it is a game design company. They didn't create CryEngine 2 & 3 with only Crysis in mind, they created it with modularity in mind, to work in varying environments, etc.
Some of you need to start realizing that you don't know what you are talking about. You talk from a generic consumer standpoint, you never think once about the position the developers are in. I don't think this situation is as shallow as EA just trying to maximize profit with DLC.
Dice are just spewing bullshit, what could possibly even need compiling in an engine with fully dynamic lighting, visibility and etcetera?
I mean, look at CryEngine 3. No compiling of anything, instantly able to play shit in the editor. What could Dice have that isn't baked shit but needs a "compile" I mean really...
[QUOTE=hexpunK;31027723]The maps contain an [B]obscene[/B] amount of data, with one light containing roughly the same amount of data as an entire BC2 lightmap.[/QUOTE]
yeah but why
[QUOTE=Legend286;31031438]Dice are just spewing bullshit, what could possibly even need compiling in an engine with fully dynamic lighting, visibility and etcetera?
I mean, look at CryEngine 3. No compiling of anything, instantly able to play shit in the editor. What could Dice have that isn't baked shit but needs a "compile" I mean really...[/QUOTE]
OMG read the above posts and you will have your answer.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31031915]yeah but why[/QUOTE]
Destructive environments
[QUOTE=xxncxx;31032589]Destructive environments[/QUOTE]
that doesn't make any sense, lightmaps are for static objects
Money > community
DLC gives money
Mod tools don't.
Loads of people buy BF2 just because of project reality. What the fuck are you on about.
[QUOTE=InsanePyro;31028996]I'm sure some third party ones will be made at some point all the same
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
That's because no one gives a fuck[/QUOTE]
Kinda my point. Using modding as the only reason that DICE has turned its back on the PC community is just being stubborn and entitlement hogging.
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;31032636]that doesn't make any sense, lightmaps are for static objects[/QUOTE]
You want to go into what is put into a map? Cause I can do that.
[editline]10th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hostel;31030173]As was said by the DICE dev in the BC2 forum, this is the current state for most in-house engine's, they are built to work in a specific environment, a large group of people, and a specific content creation pipline. Crytek on the other hand is almost as much of a game technology company as it is a game design company. They didn't create CryEngine 2 & 3 with only Crysis in mind, they created it with modularity in mind, to work in varying environments, etc.
Some of you need to start realizing that you don't know what you are talking about. You talk from a generic consumer standpoint, you never think once about the position the developers are in. I don't think this situation is as shallow as EA just trying to maximize profit with DLC.[/QUOTE]
Thank you Hostel.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31031915]yeah but why[/QUOTE]
Not sure, seeing as I don't work for DICE, but their tech shows they did explained some of the reasons that maps in particular take a long time to work on. The lights probably contain data for all kinds of things, like how they filter through the various particle effects, more obvious things like ambience and brightness. As they look to be extremely dynamic they will contain a fair bit of data just for that I'd expect.
Still, takes a shit ton of computing power to calculate most of that I expect.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;31036188]Not sure, seeing as I don't work for DICE, but their tech shows they did explained some of the reasons that maps in particular take a long time to work on. The lights probably contain data for all kinds of things, like how they filter through the various particle effects, more obvious things like ambience and brightness. As they look to be extremely dynamic they will contain a fair bit of data just for that I'd expect.
Still, takes a shit ton of computing power to calculate most of that I expect.[/QUOTE]
yeah that doesn't really make any sense
it took a lot of computing power to make Quake maps with the shit computers we had back in the day
[QUOTE=thisispain;31036246]yeah that doesn't really make any sense
it took a lot of computing power to make Quake maps with the shit computers we had back in the day[/QUOTE]
Yeah I probably shouldn't be trying to argue right now, I'm fucking tired :v:
[QUOTE=thisispain;31036246]yeah that doesn't really make any sense
it took a lot of computing power to make Quake maps with the shit computers we had back in the day[/QUOTE]
Actually no, not at all. Its surprising but not really.
[QUOTE=Swilly;31040418]Actually no, not at all. Its surprising but not really.[/QUOTE]
what not really
i used to make maps for quake when i was little, it took up a lot of time just to compile
[QUOTE=thisispain;31040560]what not really
i used to make maps for quake when i was little, it took up a lot of time just to compile[/QUOTE]
Do you even know what lengths they have to go to compile BC3 maps?
[QUOTE=Swilly;31040610]Do you even know what lengths they have to go to compile BC3 maps?[/QUOTE]
If this is their true excuse, there's obviously some serious issues with the way the engine is coded since other engines can handle immense detail without requiring weeks to compile a map
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