[QUOTE=legolover122;38603373]There would obviously have to be some reworkings.[/QUOTE]
The biggest problem is that this quote sums up Minecraft in general.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;38603347]The shit people go though for their red stone creations baffles me. Anything past an on-off circuit ends up requiring an obnoxious amount of time and effort to get right.[/QUOTE]
I think you're on your own there
once you learn how any of the stanard stuff works, it's hard to screw up. It's basically boolean logic
[QUOTE=Greenen72;38603420]I think you're on your own there
once you learn how any of the stanard stuff works, it's hard to screw up. It's basically boolean logic[/QUOTE]
The logic is piss easy, it's the tedious crap you have to do to put it all together.
Wow, I didn't even know it had been a year since the last Minecon. Meaning Minecraft was officially launched a year ago. Daaaaamn.
[QUOTE=Olas;38603463]The logic is piss easy, it's the tedious crap you have to do to put it all together.[/QUOTE]
Minecraft in a nutshell
Hows that Mod API coming along...
[QUOTE=CoolCorky;38603536]Wow, I didn't even know it had been a year since the last Minecon. Meaning Minecraft was officially launched a year ago. Daaaaamn.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, they've made it a complete game.
Having a boss makes it a complete game and fun to play, right?
[Quote] There would obviously have to be some reworkings.[/QUOTE]
This would require a new engine and codebase and a complete reworking of gameplay. Not [URL="http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Adventure_Update"]like it was promised or anything[/URL], but still. Honestly, minecraft HAD potential, but Java's limits combined with the slowness and stupidity in development killed the game.
Honestly, Minecraft is a game I want my money back for. The features we were promised never came. I'd rather give the money to the teams behind the Minecraft mod makers to make their own game. Minecraft just isn't a game. It's an engine that Notch keeps pretending is a game. It isn't worth $40, it isn't even worth the 15 I paid in alpha.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38603806]Don't worry, they've made it a complete game.
Having a boss makes it a complete game and fun to play, right?
This would require a new engine and codebase and a complete reworking of gameplay. Not [URL="http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Adventure_Update"]like it was promised or anything[/URL], but still. Honestly, minecraft HAD potential, but Java's limits combined with the slowness and stupidity in development killed the game.
Honestly, Minecraft is a game I want my money back for. The features we were promised never came. I'd rather give the money to the teams behind the Minecraft mod makers to make their own game. Minecraft just isn't a game. It's an engine that Notch keeps pretending is a game. It isn't worth $40, it isn't even worth the 15 I paid in alpha.[/QUOTE]
The most depressing part, to me, is the mod makers and other community members of the Minecraft community. For example, let's look at maps made by Hypixel and Sethbling. Maps like that TF2 remake and Herobrine's Mansion are some of the most clever things I've played, with imaginative ideas and intuitive engineering to accomplish the map's goals and objectives. It frustrates me to no end that these brilliant minds waste their time on Minecraft because at the very core, the meat and potatoes, of the game are so flimsy and shoddy. Combat is one dimensional, and no amount of amazing puzzles and unique ideas will save the game from being a total sack of shit, so all the effort in the world is poured into a game that will always produce an experience that is intrinsically shit. Their talent could be so much better utilized working with a different game engine, and I'm confident they could even have the ability to make their own game from the ground up and have it be amazing.
Don't the devs also have a ridiculous principle of "if a modder has done it, we won't be adding it"? I remember hearing something to that effect.
So great features that would make the base game way different are left out because it's already been made into a mod.
It's more of a "We only ripoff mods that we can code a shitty version of ourselves " policy, but yeah.
Honestly, I'd love to support a minecraft ripoff coded in a proper language like C that actually allowed modding.
[QUOTE=Orkel;38604475]Don't the devs also have a ridiculous principle of "if a modder has done it, we won't be adding it"? I remember hearing something to that effect.
So great features that would make the base game way different are left out because it's already been made into a mod.[/QUOTE]
Their stance now is as follows:
[quote]“I think we’re getting to a point where everything new I’m thinking of should probably be a mod,” says Minecraft’s helmsman Jens ‘Jeb’ Bergensten. “The features are getting more and more specific and not so useful to everyone. Adding new animals and monsters hasn’t felt like it’s extended the game – and maybe I should work on something more useful, even though I know animals or mobs are the most appreciated content. In the recent snapshot we added bats. They don’t really do anything, they just fly around and sit in roofs and sleep. But people are very happy about it.”
[url]http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/11/the-future-of-minecraft/[/url][/quote]
That's not really saying that if it's a mod, it's automatically exempt. Two huge examples are the Pistons mod that was eventually made into an actual feature in the vanilla game, and the McRegion file format that was once a mod that Minecraft used for a long while before anvil came in.
I think the stance is more of "Okay, we've reached a step in development that, in our quest to try to make as many people happy as possible, we're not sure which features should be implemented by us and which should be left up to modders," which I believe to be a laudable position. This is a driving force for the development of the mod API, which I remain very optimistic about.
[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;38604601]Cool, so this is basically going to break a shitload of mods and still no Mod API.
Well done.[/QUOTE]
Not really. The update will add two of the promised features, probably the redstone strength and changes. The pressure plate/minecart things won't be added, and the capacitor will be incomplete.
That is, if we're lucky. But maybe, they will add a new decoration block: Stone brick fence.
[B]Edit:[/B]
Actually, someone here should make a port of Minecraft to a better code type.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38604562]It's more of a "We only ripoff mods that we can code a shitty version of ourselves " policy, but yeah.
Honestly, I'd love to support a minecraft ripoff coded in a proper language like C that actually allowed modding.[/QUOTE]
I wanted to touch on this apparent "damned if they do, damned if they don't," double standard but decided not to. Then you posted this.
[editline]26th November 2012[/editline]
Also this.
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=93066848&searchtext=[/url]
[editline]26th November 2012[/editline]
Also, is it really Java's fault that Minecraft is terrible, or is it just the fault of poor initial planning by a developer who initially had no clear direction he wanted the game to take?
I expect a well written answer with tons of clear, salient examples. Because I sure as shit don't know.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;38604682]I wanted to touch on this apparent "damned if they do, damned if they don't," double standard but decided not to. Then you posted this.
[editline]26th November 2012[/editline]
Also this.
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=93066848&searchtext=[/url][/QUOTE]
Neat, but that artstyle. URGGH
Part of the reason Minecraft works is it's cartoonish artstyle. Super HD textures just don't work in a game made of cubes.
minecraft doesn't have a cartoony art style. the art style is "programmer art"
[QUOTE=Lazor;38604845]minecraft doesn't have a cartoony art style. the art style is "programmer art"[/QUOTE]
[t]http://www.zeldainformer.com/images/uploads/articles/107594-the_legend_of_zelda_the_wind_waker_starcube_u-1.jpeg[/t]
[t]http://i2.listal.com/image/1445819/600full-kirby-super-star-screenshot.jpg[/t]
[t]http://images.psxextreme.com/screenshots/ps2_okami/ps2_okami_11.jpg[/t]
[t]http://media.tasvideos.org/autosnaps/1670_20.png[/t]
These are cartoony art styles.
[img]http://static.allmyapps.com/data/apps/1/6/1603/4350db536db99acb55493f22458b70fb_2695_Minecraft___Server_060809___1_by_Nova225_default.png[/img]
This isn't.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38604562]It's more of a "We only ripoff mods that we can code a shitty version of ourselves " policy, but yeah.
Honestly, I'd love to support a minecraft ripoff coded in a proper language like C that actually allowed modding.[/QUOTE]
Java is a proper language. Stop being a tool.
The flaws in MC are largely all down to the developers. Very little of it is a fault of Java, and the things that are a fault of Java are very minor faults. As people have proven in the past, if you fix up the way MC handles the world, interaction, most of the game really, even while keeping it in Java. You can cut the memory usage down significantly, and fix the performance issues.
If anything, the only fault of using Java is it can make you a slightly lazy developer as you don't have to manage resources as much as say, C++. And the standard library, which is no doubt used a lot in MC as it is with any Java application, is not a 100% perfect implementation of the things it provides.
There's a reason I said "cartoonish". It looks sorta bright and happy because notch is too lazy to make real textures.
As for java, java is great I won't lie, but it just isn't cut out for the requirements of Minecraft and Notch's shitty coding. Although, nothing may be able to stand up to his coding.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38604960]As for java, java is great I won't lie, but it just isn't cut out for the requirements of Minecraft and Notch's shitty coding.[/QUOTE]
I, having only a barely passing knowledge of programming after taking a few 101 courses in college, know nothing about the strengths and weaknesses of each programming language. Can you please explain to me, in layman's terms, why Java isn't cut out for the requirements of Minecraft?
I like what redpower does with red alloy wire. [url]http://thetekkit.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Alloy_Wire[/url]
It's pretty simple/intuitive and redstone signals can travel up sheer walls like that.
I wish they'd do something like that.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38604960]There's a reason I said "cartoonish". It looks sorta bright and happy because notch is too lazy to make real textures.
As for java, java is great I won't lie, but it just isn't cut out for the requirements of Minecraft and Notch's shitty coding. Although, nothing may be able to stand up to his coding.[/QUOTE]
There's many things Java is great for. It seems games in general are not one of those. And I would probably put it down to how the Garbage Collection is handled in Java more than the actual features of the language. The GC has had a lot of research done on it to try and see how efficient you can make it in various scenarios (automated, semi-automated, manually called). And there is always a sort of noticeable "hang" when it does its thing. Though this is largely in enterprise applications and not games.
[QUOTE=Orkel;38604475]Don't the devs also have a ridiculous principle of "if a modder has done it, we won't be adding it"? I remember hearing something to that effect.
So great features that would make the base game way different are left out because it's already been made into a mod.[/QUOTE]
mind you when they've added shit from mods in the past people would complain no end that they just 'copy' from the mods because they're too lazy to come up with new ideas
now that they said that they'll come up with exclusively new ideas, people want them to add shit from mods.
Minecraft has by nature a very un-pleaseable fanbase due to it's 1) averseness to change, 2) eagerness for new features and 3) being <12 years of age.
What minecraft is now is a huge pool of unfinished game mechanics, and unless they're saving the huge rework for 'the future', that's all minecraft will ever be.
I don't understand the part where any of these redstone changes are useful at all. It seems like all they're doing is convoluting things and giving modders hell (once again).
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38605024]There's many things Java is great for. It seems games in general are not one of those. And I would probably put it down to how the Garbage Collection is handled in Java more than the actual features of the language. The GC has had a lot of research done on it to try and see how efficient you can make it in various scenarios (automated, semi-automated, manually called). And there is always a sort of noticeable "hang" when it does its thing. Though this is largely in enterprise applications and not games.[/QUOTE]
Which is why I say that Minecraft shouldn't be on Java. It's a good language for many things, but for a game like Minecraft, it's a huge bottleneck. The game is just too resource intensive and unoptimized for the benefits of it.
For those of you still hoping for an overhaul and change in game mechanics for Minecraft: Don't.
I made that mistake 2 years ago and I regret it today. The game just hasn't lived up to it's promises. It's an unorganized, unpolished, unfinished, unoptimized and unfun game engine. The enemies are really all the same and the "boss battle" isn't even worth it. You get as much useless XP as you would from a good mob trap and it's just a grind with artificial difficulty. The update thta promised an overhaul in combat and movement added a gimpy sprint feature, a broken hunger mechanic and an unfinished XP system. The update that promised "spooky halloween" added a boring witch and a bat. The modding API has been "in the works" for as long as I can remember and the game gets a new memory leak every second week. The monsters are still either no fun to fight in single player, or impossible to fight in multiplayer's shitty lag compensation(if it exists at all). The finished game contains almost as many or even more bugs than the beta did.
This article is an almost perfect example of what's wrong with the game's development. It starts with a new article like this, promising the feature that might actually make it a finished game. Starts the hype train, which keeps on chugging until release day. The update is then delayed and released in "snapshots". When it comes out, it is unfinished and disappointing. So a new set of features is announced and the cycle starts again. It's been the same damn thing for 3 years and hell, it tricked me for 2. I'm just tired of the bullshit that this game has become.
I really fucking hate when people who know nothing about programming (see: "A_pigeon") go on a rant about how Java just "isn't cut out for Minecraft!!!!!"
[QUOTE=geel9;38605445]I really fucking hate when people who know nothing about programming (see: "A_pigeon") go on a rant about how Java just "isn't cut out for Minecraft!!!!!"[/QUOTE]
I hate how you think you're enlightened about everything programming. Java is a bad idea for a game like Minecraft, it's a language that relies on garbage collection and Minecraft is very memory intensive for just this reason. However large amounts of the terrible FPS is also down to Notch's terrible rendering code.
[editline]26th November 2012[/editline]
As for 1.5. Where the hell is the modding API they promised [b]last year[/b].
While you people argue about the technicalities of Minecraft, I'll continue having fun in survival with a friend, enjoying all the new stuff that has been added. :v:
[QUOTE=paul simon;38605750]all the new stuff that has been added. :v:[/QUOTE]
yeah, gotta love those new half slab blocks and hardcore bosses which don't even make noises.
[QUOTE=Matt-;38605770]yeah, gotta love those new half slab blocks and hardcore bosses which don't even make noises.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the all important and brand new zombie pig- I mean wither skeleton!
As for the missing API, it's chilling with the lanterns notch added back in Hallowee- Oh, wait.
[QUOTE=Matt-;38605770]yeah, gotta love those new half slab blocks and hardcore bosses which don't even make noises.[/QUOTE]
Have yet to reach them though, and I have no idea what a half slab block is :v:
For me, there's new stuff everywhere as I haven't played it for a year or so.
Enchantments, potions, stuff in the nether that isn't just pigmen, different terrain.
Is the height limit any higher? I heard of it but I've yet to find out.
Anyhow, it's great fun. Especially when played with a friend.
I never bothered to figure out the redstone stuff and actually do something with it, but maybe I will when this update arrives.
[editline]27th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38605943]As for the missing API, it's chilling with the lanterns notch added back in Hallowee- Oh, wait.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by missing API?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
