[QUOTE=KorJax;40298056]
Bioshock has no penalty for falling or dying either and yet it's praised by just about everyone here. So clearly that doesn't mean gameplay is bad either.[/QUOTE]
In the case of bioshock, the enemies and minibosses still present a challenge. If you die you get reset back a bit just like most other games, and you get set back by challenging enemies.
In fez you fall off a platform and you just respawn back on the last platform you jumped off of so you don't botch the jump the next time.
Two completely different things.
[QUOTE=KorJax;40298056]Why is it shit?[/QUOTE]
To put it simply it's not about what it did do as much as it is about what it didn't do. The art isn't really imaginative or impressive enough for the game to ride off that, the gameplay has only one element which has been done in way cooler ways in much lesser known flash games (and I believe by some people on FP in the programming section even). Basically a game has to AT LEAST have one strong point of the elements of art, gameplay, and story to be interesting and ideally should be good at all three. Fez is not good at any of those, so why would I play it over even one of the better [b]free[/b] flash games out there, better yet buy it? There's just nothing much to the game, and although I could probably play it for a while and be mildly amused it's just all around a pretty shit game
[QUOTE=KorJax;40297856]Why do people say Fez is bad? I'm willing to bet none of you have played it.
Fez is good if you like games like Journey or Knytt. Minimal gameplay, simple puzzle solving and more about the experience of playing it than "beating it". Its an excellent game in that style of design.
Everyone on FP (pretty much exclusively) hates on Fez just because it was never released on PC in the first place (everyone pretty much loved it when it was still in development here lol) and because the developer is a douche who doesn't understand what PR is.[/QUOTE]
But the difference is that games like Journey have an underlying theme to it, has gameplay that's not just pressing a shoulder button when you run out of options of where to jump, and has somewhat of a storyline to it. Not to mention a nice soundtrack to listen to as you play.
[QUOTE=Kegan;40297892]Knytt isn't full of itself. Nor is the creator of Knytt a huge pretentious shithead like Fish is.[/QUOTE]
lol do you even know what pretentious means
If I remember correctly, the game was never supposed to be hard, it was more about exploring and just enjoying the game world, similar to Proteus. I loved Proteus, so I'll definitely check this out when it comes to PC.
[QUOTE=nnoah95;40298171]lol do you even know what pretentious means[/QUOTE]
Do [I]you?[/I]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NaKnrd5.png[/IMG]
Phil Fish has his head so far up his own ass he's got shitstains on his collar.
I thought this game was pretty cool. It had cool puzzles and an in-game language you could decipher to help with or solve other puzzles. The only thing I didn't like about it was the map system, it was pretty confusing
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;40297754]Doesn't get anymore pretentious or le epic meme ridden than this piece of shit.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you know what you're talking about. I played through the game and I only know of one meme (one that didn't originate from reddit), and you only see it once you finish the game.
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;40297896]Read the title again. it's 200k not 2M.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but the game doesn't cost $1
[QUOTE=Elspin;40298126]To put it simply it's not about what it did do as much as it is about what it didn't do. The art isn't really imaginative or impressive enough for the game to ride off that, the gameplay has only one element which has been done in way cooler ways in much lesser known flash games (and I believe by some people on FP in the programming section even). Basically a game has to AT LEAST have one strong point of the elements of art, gameplay, and story to be interesting and ideally should be good at all three. Fez is not good at any of those, so why would I play it over even one of the better [b]free[/b] flash games out there, better yet buy it? There's just nothing much to the game, and although I could probably play it for a while and be mildly amused it's just all around a pretty shit game[/QUOTE]
Honestly I disagree. I found it pretty imaginative and impressive.
And to be fair every flash game out there that has similar gameplay was made was based off of Fez. I distinctly remember the first Fez-clone coming out a little bit before Fez was even released, and it was very barebones. Fez was the first game around other than Paper Mario to do the things it does.
[editline]16th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Yogkog;40298158]But the difference is that games like Journey have an underlying theme to it, has gameplay that's not just pressing a shoulder button when you run out of options of where to jump, and has somewhat of a storyline to it. Not to mention a nice soundtrack to listen to as you play.[/QUOTE]
Journey's story is about discovery which Fez is about as well. Sure you could say it has a "plot" to it, but it really isn't the focus, its a garnish. You can't honestly say the reason why Journey is acclaimed is because of it's story - it's acclaimed because it provides an excellent sense of discovery, exploration and is an experience to play. In this way, it and Fez succeed in meeting those design goals.
[editline]16th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=legolover122;40298092]In the case of bioshock, the enemies and minibosses still present a challenge. If you die you get reset back a bit just like most other games, and you get set back by challenging enemies.
In fez you fall off a platform and you just respawn back on the last platform you jumped off of so you don't botch the jump the next time.
Two completely different things.[/QUOTE]
The point in games like Fez though isn't the gameplay challenge of it, that's my point. Knytt is a rather easy game to play for the most part, with a few hard-to-get-around areas here and there but by and large its a game about discovery, not about challenge. Fez isn't any different. Sometimes there is challenge in both games, but it doesn't invalidate it.
And even if every game had to provide some kind of gameplay challenge, is it really a "challenge" if you never truely die? Enemies and minibosses in Infinite only provide percieved challenege. As long as you have infinite lives in your hand, can't ever fall off (and falling off in Infinite doesn't even "kill" you, you just get teleported to where you were... just like Fez!), the game's challenges they present are technically artifical challenges.
You can get through any section in the game in Infinite by simply "dying" a thousand times, losing no progress (because enemies you kill when you die stay dead, you don't ever actually lose progress, same with minibosses) and simply winning out by virtue of your infinite lives. When I die in infinite, even if its in a really hard area with 20 guys and a handyman, I don't ever lose progress - everyone I killed up to that point stays dead, the handyman stays damaged, etc. I just walk through a door and resume right back where I was. That's really not that much different from what Fez does, except in 1999 mode it provides an interesting resource-management issue as you can be very starved for cash (important for upgrades) if you keep dying.
“>Indie Developers are giving a display of their game at E3
>Japanese developer walks up
>’wattu gamu isu dis’
>’oh, this is a new game we’re making, we’re trying to step away from the outdated japanese style of ga-‘
>’deesu pratforming frisics arr rong
>’well, you see-‘
>’but, what we’re..’
>’rayout of revel is too simple, not fun to pray’
>’but, you see, we have a message..’
>’ifu game isu shitty, da message isu rost.’
>indie developer begins weeping openly
>japanese developer bows
>’isu wassu privirege’”
This is all that really has to be said about Phil Fish and his game. It's one thing to criticize japanese games and developers for the numerous installments in a series and repetitive nature, but to criticize their design philosophies and then release something with poor design choices (and a ripped off art style used by a [U]japanese developer[/U]) is stupid because a lot of japanese developers put (usually, this isn't always the case) a ton of work on their game mechanics so that the game doesn't feel loose and so that the game as a whole is tightly knit. yes, japanese developers are guilty of some other "crimes" when it comes to game design but for the most part it's not as bad as how western game design is at the moment. the fact that western developers are currently resorting to the same thing the japanese are criticized for by this guy is testament to the fact this guy does not know what he's talking about.
And it's sad because what's happening now is that Japanese developers are actually thinking that in order to stay relevant, they have to do what western designers are doing and simplifying their games or just outright ruining them. Look at what happened with Ninja Gaiden, DmC, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, etc. The developers for those didn't simply say "LETS RUIN A SERIES!" They had to gut their games to try to fit the western market better and got shit in return critically and financially in both japan and the west while western developers get praised for releasing games that are usually not as great as people say they are.
And I'm not saying that Western games are "bad" because for a while it was all good. We got some really good titles coming out from talented folks, but the way it's gone since that time is ridiculous. When a game can be released in a very buggy state or with laughably bad quality/presentation or simply boring gameplay mechanics and be praised by everyone left and right, you know that quality is diminishing fast.
[QUOTE=KorJax;40297856]Why do people say Fez is bad? I'm willing to bet none of you have played it.
Fez is good if you like games like Journey or Knytt. Minimal gameplay, simple puzzle solving and more about the experience of playing it than "beating it". Its an excellent game in that style of design.
Everyone on FP (pretty much exclusively) hates on Fez just because it was never released on PC in the first place (everyone pretty much loved it when it was still in development here lol) and because the developer is a douche who doesn't understand what PR is.[/QUOTE]
Fez has the same issue that Braid has in that it tries to force you into caring about the "story" in a bad way. I believe the game has its own madeup language that you have to learn for a number of puzzles? That's a bad design decision in general. it's not a good design decision because the game looks like something that looks fairly easy (and it is, but in the wrong way) but forces exposition on on the player. that, along with requiring you to use a QR code reader at one point are not the way the puzzles should be done in a puzzle game. a game's puzzles should be based around gameplay mechanics, which fez does not necessarily make proper use of besides level navigation. the introduction of enemies would've made gameplay a lot more attractive as well and fish fails to make use of the gameplay gimmick that fez relies on in this regard as well. the art style is basically a rip off of cave story and the only real good quality of the game was the music.
I mentioned braid before because ironically it also has a dev who's slightly full of himself while also being a game that forces the story on you. the only difference is that Braid (despite what many say) has some decent gameplay that actually requires a brain to figure out and the presentation isn't complete shit either. the game was pretty good up until the ending when it just forces even more of the story onto you with a completely irrelevant message. I actually do like Braid a lot though.
I'm sure to many Fez is a good game and I'd like to say more good things about it because I know some people are (somehow) able to enjoy it, but the way the game was handled is not very attractive. The game actually feels as if it isn't actually a game and was just an interactive art project that took 5 years to make. but whatever Fez was trying to do failed to impress me because for the most part, I consider the gameplay before I consider anything else and the game simply made poor use of it. if a game fails to capture me with the gameplay, then everything else sort of falls apart as a result. fez looks like a simple fun puzzle platformer but when you actually get down and play it, it's not what you expect and you've probably wasted money on a game you shouldn't have. despite how i feel about edward mcmullen, he's made better games in this regard because in his games, the gameplay is actually pretty good and you're not forced to sit through story in his games. my only complains about his games are the final boss in smb and that fucking projectile attack in isaac. otherwise it's all hunky dory.
[QUOTE=KorJax;40298354]Honestly I disagree. I found it pretty imaginative and impressive.
And to be fair every flash game out there that has similar gameplay was made based off of Fez. [b]Fez was the first game around other than Paper Mario to do the things it did.[/b]
[editline]16th April 2013[/editline]
Journey's story is about discovery which Fez is about as well. Sure you could say it has a "plot" to it, but it really isn't the focus, its a garnish. You can't honestly say the reason why Journey is acclaimed is because of it's story - it's acclaimed because it provides an excellent sense of discovery, exploration and is an experience to play. In this way, it and Fez succeed in meeting those design goals.[/QUOTE]
No, it certainly was not. I remember playing games with that same gimmick a long time before Fez came out, and a few actual published games have been mentioned in reviews that are more concrete than my personal memory. Paper mario is certainly one, and apparently so is [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush_(video_game)[/url] a game by sega for PSP. Either way, it's by no means original gameplay and there is nothing "impressive" or "imaginative" about taking an idea that's been around for a long time and doing it worse.
[QUOTE=darkzero226;40298431]“
Fez has the same issue that Braid has in that it tries to force you into caring about the "story" in a bad way. I believe the game has its own madeup language that you have to learn for a number of puzzles? That's a bad design decision in general. it's not a good design decision because the game looks like something that looks fairly easy (and it is, but in the wrong way) but forces exposition on on the player. that, along with requiring you to use a QR code reader at one point are not the way the puzzles should be done in a puzzle game. a game's puzzles should be based around gameplay mechanics, which fez does not necessarily make proper use of besides level navigation. the introduction of enemies would've made gameplay a lot more attractive as well and fish fails to make use of the gameplay gimmick that fez relies on in this regard as well. the art style is basically a rip off of cave story and the only real good quality of the game was the music.
I mentioned braid before because ironically it also has a dev who's slightly full of himself while also being a game that forces the story on you. the only difference is that Braid (despite what many say) has some decent gameplay that actually requires a brain to figure out and the presentation isn't complete shit either. the game was pretty good up until the ending when it just forces even more of the story onto you with a completely irrelevant message. I actually do like Braid a lot though.
I'm sure to many Fez is a good game and I'd like to say more good things about it because I know some people are (somehow) able to enjoy it, but the way the game was handled is not very attractive. The game actually feels as if it isn't actually a game and was just an interactive art project that took 5 years to make. but whatever Fez was trying to do failed to impress me because for the most part, I consider the gameplay before I consider anything else and the game simply made poor use of it. if a game fails to capture me with the gameplay, then everything else sort of falls apart as a result. fez looks like a simple fun puzzle platformer but when you actually get down and play it, it's not what you expect and you've probably wasted money on a game you shouldn't have. despite how i feel about edward mcmullen, he's made better games in this regard because in his games, the gameplay is actually pretty good and you're not forced to sit through story in his games. my only complains about his games are the final boss in smb and that fucking projectile attack in isaac. otherwise it's all hunky dory.[/QUOTE]
What? Braid doesn't force the story on the player at all. It's one of the design goals behind the books in the game as a matter of fact- He made it so they were books you could just walk past versus cutscenes because he didn't want to force exposition on people who didn't care about it. So you walk right on by and can just experience the game for what it is.
If you are honestly staying Braids story was bad, then I'm not really sure what to say because that's about the exact opposite of what the gaming community at large thinks. You can get deep into braids story if you want (and that's the charm) but even on the (OPTIONAL) surface level braid provides substance in its narrative that is enjoyable to experience. It was also truely the first game that attempted to marry the actions of the gameplay itself to the story it was trying to tell without spelling it out for the player.
[QUOTE=KorJax;40298477]What? Braid doesn't force the story on the player at all. It's one of the design goals behind the books in the game as a matter of fact- He made it so they were books you could just walk past versus cutscenes because he didn't want to force exposition on people who didn't care about it. So you walk right on by and can just experience the game for what it is.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but here's the thing. Some people do want to go for completion, and the fact that you're forced to do all these things for completion is what makes the game worse. You've not experienced a "game for what it is" until you've actually beaten it to 100% completion in my opinion, when you've seen every bit the game has to offer. The language is neat but it's needlessly complex and you're forced into learning it just to complete the entire game, and not only that but some of the actual messages themselves are something a normal person would not guess. It's not fun to play at all and is still improper use of gameplay mechanics.
I'm not saying Braid's Story was bad. Where in that post did you get that? I simply said the way the story is forced on you was bad. The fact that the game has rooms that you have to go through that are there just for exposition is what kills it. And it doesn't help that the ending of the game will literally have you thinking "what the hell just happened?" It's a twist that shouldn't necessarily be there. I admire what Blow was trying to do, but it also suffered from "pretentiousness." They could've at least put something neat in the rooms but it's just emptyness you have to walk through if you're playing the game just to play the game.
suck my dick. choke on it.
[QUOTE=darkzero226;40298431]And I'm not saying that Western games are "bad" because for a while it was all good. We got some really good titles coming out from talented folks, but the way it's gone since that time is ridiculous. When a game can be released in a very buggy state or with laughably bad quality/presentation or simply boring gameplay mechanics and be praised by everyone left and right, you know that quality is diminishing fast.[/QUOTE]
The "decline" stems from the fact that the market for a lot of western-dominant genres are oversaturated. It's not safe for any of the big names to leave themselves unrepresented for long because there's a ton of other people waiting to take their spot. To minimize the risk of falling behind it's become commonplace for western devs and publishers to use a business model that has almost no down-time. Regular releases , DLC, and microtransactions allow them to keep their spot filled for an indefinite period of time. This has gotten particularly bad in the PC market where nearly all of the most popular genres have been oligopolized by big companies using this business model.
[QUOTE=nnoah95;40298171]lol do you even know what pretentious means[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you need another word defined for you which is appropriate in this situation.
[video=youtube;a2krXq8fw90]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2krXq8fw90[/video]
Can someone explain why the developer is a complete asshat?
[QUOTE=MILKE;40299902]Can someone explain why the developer is a complete asshat?[/QUOTE]
This should explain everything.
[Img]http://i.imgur.com/R9i47.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Spectre1406;40299939]This should explain everything.
[Img]http://i.imgur.com/R9i47.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Oh wow I see
Pretty much all the hate for Fez only comes from most people not actually understanding why it got so many awards and shit. It didn't get praised for its gameplay and platforming, that's not even the focus of the game, it got all the praise for its puzzle that is hidden in the game in such a way that you wouldn't even know it's there at first. Fez pretty much integrates an ARG into a game, which is something that's never been done. That's why it got all the praise, not because it's a platformer with a gimmick.
[QUOTE=nnoah95;40297521]I think he was looking for your actual opinions not what your favorite youtubers think[/QUOTE]
I don't know much about what Youtube folks think about Fez, but right about the time the creator called gamers "fucking assholes" is about where my interest in Fez ended.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40297004]Alright, I get that people around here hate the developer behind this game, but how is the actual game anyway?[/QUOTE]
Sluggish, empty and minimalistic in a bad way.
It's essentially a pretentious excuse for bad coding, constant lack of effort and absence of good design. The game is supposed to give a nostalgic platformer feel but there are no enemies, no obstacles and your only possibly harm is gravity, which isn't saying much considering upon dying you will respawn exactly where you were before falling, removing all challenge.
The entirety of the five years of development went into remaking the pixel art of the game several times, and that's about it. That and include unfitting memes that don't really have anything to do with the context of the game.
Not to mention it only got released on XBLA and was only available on this platform for a bit more than a year (it's finally coming to PC and no one is going to buy it because everyone hates phil fish and after a full year everyone even slightly interested in this has either tried the game already or just knows how shit it is.
even if fez was the perfect combination of great videogameness and cool graphics and sounds and shit, many people, myself included, would probably still have a very negative opinion about the game. that's because phil fish, the face behind the game, is a goddamn asshole. he kind of ruins fez by existing
It's funny how an ironic website like The Best Gamers is sometimes the sole voice of reason when no one else can seem to tell just how shitty a game is. Their Minecraft review was like this too, I think the world needed it.
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;40297896]Read the title again. it's 200k not 2M.[/QUOTE]
No, revenue, as in USD
I'd recommend giving Indie Game: The Movie with the team meat commentary a watch, non-stop ripping on Phil Fish, calling him baby wolverine etc.
[QUOTE=nnoah95;40297521]I think he was looking for your actual opinions not what your favorite youtubers think[/QUOTE]
Oh right, I forgot that people can't share the same opinions without bandwaggoning.
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