[QUOTE=ketchup v2;36316250]RMAH/gold AH, taking singleplayer characters online, Bnet integration, duping prevention, hacks/cheats prevention.[/QUOTE]
The problem is, that the only reason for it is the second reason - taking SP characters online. The rest could very easily stay in the MP realm only.
If I play in SP I don't need - RMAH, Bnet integration (can still exist but I don't need it), duping prevention or a hack or cheat prevention. Hell I might even enjoy using a trainer to give a sorceress two longswords like a lot of people did in diablo2 just for fun.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36318827]??
I don't see how words can have such a big impact on hosting resources.
Unless you meant worlds, but even then, that's just statistics too, just data storage.[/QUOTE]
Diablo 3 is essentially something like guildwars serverwise.
Two and a half hours waiting for support now.
diablo 3 is the worst launch blizzard has ever done
seriously even wow's launch was better
OK, so I got through. Once you actually get a representative, it's relatively pain-free. It still needs to be 'approved' however, so we'll see if I actually got it. Even if it doesn't, at least somebody will see it. If they get enough requests, they'll have to rethink their stance on offline play.
Thanks to whoever suggested I 'vote with my money' and suggested the refund.
I recommend that if you're also unhappy with D3 you do the same. It really is the best way to make a point.
This whole thread is just one big miss. Could someone sum up why Diablo 3 is Blizzard's worse game? I'm curious and I've always been skeptical as to whether I should get the game or not.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;36314628]Meanwhile, in Pirate land...[/QUOTE]
Meanwhile, in Impossible to pirate due to most of the data being Serverside Land...
Actually, with enough time you could probably spoof all of the data from the clientside eventually with the appropriate emulation software. That, or Storm Activision-Blizzard's headquarters with a heavily armed fireteam and steal the source code from their server farm.
i don't suspect any custom servers will be as good as the actual game unless there's an actual leak
[QUOTE=mixshifter;36320187]This whole thread is just one big miss. Could someone sum up why Diablo 3 is Blizzard's worse game? I'm curious and I've always been skeptical as to whether I should get the game or not.[/QUOTE]
Mostly technical. It's always-online, which means no 'true' single-player or LAN, constant ~300ms latency, and occasional downtime. I don't like the RMAH because I don't think it provides a fair or immersive experience.
I have issues with the gameplay, but it's mostly personal preference. I felt it was too short, too linear, too grind-y, too repetitive, and too 'bland'. However, if you enjoyed the other Diablo games, simple dungeon crawlers like Dungeon Siege, or even World of Warcraft (it feels very much the same, to me), then it might still be right up your alley.
Blizzard's expectation is that you will beat the game four times (in 'Normal', 'Nightmare', 'Hell', and 'Inferno' difficulties) 'just because you can'. Know that going in; there just isn't much content in this game. At least not as much as I expect in a long-awaited high-budget AAA title.
it's like they don't want me to buy DIII
Played Diablo 3 and was really disappointed. I'll wait for Torchlight 2 which costs less and is probably pretty much fun, too.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;36320187]This whole thread is just one big miss. Could someone sum up why Diablo 3 is Blizzard's worse game? I'm curious and I've always been skeptical as to whether I should get the game or not.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if I'd call it Blizzards worst game, but allow me to shed some light about the game for you. (Some of these are my opinions, keep in mind.)
The skill tree and stat points system has gone out the window. You now gain your skills just by leveling up, and you get a selection of variants to use for these skills called runes. This means by level 60, you will have access to every single skill and skill rune, allowing you to tweak and adapt skills on the fly.
Sounds good on paper, the problem? You get punished for it. Before hitting 60, you can change a skill and rune at any point, said skill will be inactive on cooldown for roughly 10-15seconds, and after that you can use the modified/different skill in battle. What I thought this new skill system was doing was encouraging players to change certain skill sets out on the field on the fly to adapt to their situation and use it to get out of tough spots by the use of some quick fingers and strategy.
Once you hit 60, you get a slap in the face that's akin to the game saying "No you've been doing it wrong, do it this way." Changing a skill anywhere that's not a town at that point will put it on an incredibly long cooldown (something like a minute? not 100 % sure on this.) Not only that, but you will lose all of your stacked "Nephalem Valor." NV is a boost to your magic and gold find you receive whenever you kill an elite or champion mob(s). This stacks up to 5 times, and will last 30min, but killing more of them after hitting the full stack will just refresh your current one back to 30min.
Blizzard has said they didn't like how D2's endgame farming was doing pure boss runs, and wanted the players to focus on killing the elites in the maps for their loot more than the bosses. So getting and utilizing this NV will be your main way to get that high end juicy loot you're after.
Having your NV completely reset when you decide to swap skills completely destroys the only redeeming and fun aspect of the current skill system. There is no more seeing an enemy that is fire based and trying to quick swap out your fire spell for and ice spell to better deal with them. You are forced into a very limited build that you have to make work for all scenarios, or find yourself hitting a brick wall.
This also causes balance issues. A lot of skills end up becoming useless because of this, since they are no longer situational. A certain skill/rune that might be better for fighting against a specific type/group of enemies might not be very useful against the rest of them, and since we get punished for changing skills on the fly (like the system up until that point has been encouraging us to) there is never a reason to use them in place of the more overall useful ones. Builds end up being very boring and we're forced to use pretty much the same builds to get anywhere on the highest difficulty.
The lack of stat allocation when leveling up also is a huge downside as well. This puts all the stat focus into the items. Instead of being creative with skill and stat builds, what the game now comes down to is finding the most effective skill build and getting items with the best stats to boost this build. This means that often times you can end up being stuck in a part of the game simply because your items aren't up to par and nothing more. Skill, execution, and strategy all pretty much go out the window at this point. While they are still present, you will be fighting an uphill battle if you are under geared, which is INCREDIBLY frustrating.
The itemization causes this to suffer the most. Magic and Rare drops have dice rolls of stats, giving you X amount of stat modifiers with +X stat or +X% of something, which results in periods of time where you go through a long segment of the game with the same gear simply because the loot system refuses to drop you anything useful from the random dice rolls. It's way too easy to end up incredibly under geared and stuck simply because your loot was crap throughout your play time, resulting in you almost feeling forced to go onto the auction house to get a few pieces of decent equipment so you can finally move on. Sure, you get your loot, you gain the ability to kill more shit and move on, but the method of acquisition simply isn't fun, and almost feels cheap at times.
The elite mobs are also very poorly designed as well. They are almost guaranteed to have 1 ability with them that completely prevents micro, resulting in relying on luck to get by the encounters. Jailers will pin you in place for a good 5seconds without any sort of visual or audio clue to dodge it, Vortex will pull you in on top of them, Wallers will completely block off routes and trap you in, Frozen will spam ice bombs that freeze your character in place (and often times they will spam the ever living fuck out of them so that if you get hit by just 1, you will be chain frozen until you die). The only one of those that you have any warning to is the Frozen, which place little snowball bombs that explode after a certain amount of time. If you miss dodging this ONCE, you are pretty much fucked.
All of these combine to a very boring and over all frustrating way of playing the game. There were times where I was struggling my ass off trying to complete and act alone in one of the higher difficulties, and despite all my attempts and tweaking my skills and tactics, was still having issues. I log onto the auction house, grab a new weapon, and I'm instantly slicing through them liked warm butter. I got through it, but did I feel satisfied about how I did it? No. It felt cheap.
Always online DRM is a huge hassle as well. My HDD died a few weeks ago, and after replacing it, all I had gotten around to installing was Diablo 3 and Tribes:Ascend. I mostly play Diablo 3 with friends, but when no one is on and willing to play, I have no problem loading the game up by myself. A few days later, my ISP cancels my net claiming some late fee bullshit, and I didn't have the money to pay it off at the time. I'm without net, and I want to play some Diablo 3. I had played plenty of the game by myself already, but now all of a sudden I'm not allowed to? I paid for the game, let me play it how I choose.
The past few days I had a few too many co op sessions ruining completely because Blizzards servers randomly started lagging. Why am I not able to load up my own single player game and play lag free while this happens?
There have also been an extremely large amount of security issues, like people losing all their items and gold, as well as people spamming gold selling sites and finding gold duping tricks. Not only are we being inconvenienced by the always online policy, it's still not slowing down any exploiters.
You guys can defend the game all you want, but there ARE flaws and it DOES effect the paying customers. I'm enjoying the game overall, but all these little hassles and issues are starting to take their toll on me, and I don't see myself playing this game for even a quarter as long as I played D2.
Walloftext.
It's pretty amazing how some people still defend Blizzard's decision blindly. Tell me, how much do those knees of your hurt by now?
I'm not saying anything about game mechanics or if it's a "real Diablo" (I hate what happened to stats and skill trees, but that's an opinion), I'm talking purely about the always online DRM that was supposed to stop things like gold sellers but in the end didn't and ended up just being a pain for honest players.
Has anyone thought that if there wasnt DRM that the game would already be hacked and everyone would ruin the game with hacked, duped, cheated fucking items?
[QUOTE=jessem3;36323068]Has anyone thought that if there wasnt DRM that the game would already be hacked and everyone would ruin the game with hacked, duped, cheated fucking items?[/QUOTE]
the complaints are about always-online drm, not drm by itself.
[QUOTE=jessem3;36323068]Has anyone thought that if there wasnt DRM that the game would already be hacked and everyone would ruin the game with hacked, duped, cheated fucking items?[/QUOTE]
Yeah because you couldn't have separate online-only mode.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36323904]Yeah because you couldn't have separate online-only mode.[/QUOTE]
And there's no such things as serial keys for online games either.
[QUOTE=acds;36322932]It's pretty amazing how some people still defend Blizzard's decision blindly. Tell me, how much do those knees of your hurt by now?
I'm not saying anything about game mechanics or if it's a "real Diablo" (I hate what happened to stats and skill trees, but that's an opinion), I'm talking purely about the always online DRM that was supposed to stop things like gold sellers but in the end didn't and ended up just being a pain for honest players.[/QUOTE]
I'm not defending it blindly, it just doesn't effect me negatively more than positively. Under a simple benefit-cost analysis I gain more from Diablo 3's always on DRM than I lose.
Outside of the occasional server maintenance or lag spike it's not an inconvenience at all, and when those things occur I simply stop playing and go do something else because I am a grown adult.
Again I'll bring up something I said earlier:
All of the people I know who bought the game acknowledge the benefits of this specific DRM Blizzard is using, as well as the downsides, but agree that the positives outweigh the negatives.
All of the people I know who are actively complaining about the DRM are people who have not actually played the game.
So I'd disagree, along with most of the people I know who bought the game, that it's been a pain.
[editline]14th June 2012[/editline]
I'd go so far as to say I'd want similar online features in most of the games I play, if I was sure there were companies outside of Blizzard who could run such a system as well as they do.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;36324485]I'm not defending it blindly, it just doesn't effect me negatively more than positively. Under a simple benefit-cost analysis I gain more from Diablo 3's always on DRM than I lose.
Outside of the occasional server maintenance or lag spike it's not an inconvenience at all, and when those things occur [B]I simply stop playing and go do something else because I am a grown adult.[/B]
Again I'll bring up something I said earlier:
All of the people [B]I know[/B] who bought the game acknowledge the benefits of this specific DRM Blizzard is using, as well as the downsides, but agree that the positives outweigh the negatives.
All of the people [B]I know[/B] who are actively complaining about the DRM are people who have not actually played the game.
So I'd disagree, along with most of the people I know who bought the game, that it's been a pain.
[editline]14th June 2012[/editline]
I'd go so far as to say I'd want similar online features in most of the games I play, if I was sure there were companies outside of Blizzard who could run such a system as well as they do.[/QUOTE]
how is this a reason for it to not be shit?
You're a grown adult so when something breaks you just walk away from it? great I guess. here's a better idea, it could not break at all? And when it does break we could acknowledge it as being bad?
also bolded, important points. A shit load of my friends who bought it agree that the DRM is fucking garbage, so your point is meaningless.
as for me, I can't even play the thing because my internet at home in the evenings isn't stable enough.
and as blizzard said themselves, the reason this shit is in the game in the first place is because of the auction house (and probably because they wanted a reason to justify this shit). if you're telling yourself the always online drm needed to be there for the friend system and shit, you are telling yourself an obvious lie
[QUOTE=acds;36322932]It's pretty amazing how some people still defend Blizzard's decision blindly. Tell me, how much do those knees of your hurt by now?
I'm not saying anything about game mechanics or if it's a "real Diablo" (I hate what happened to stats and skill trees, but that's an opinion), I'm talking purely about the always online DRM that was supposed to stop things like gold sellers but in the end didn't and ended up just being a pain for honest players.[/QUOTE]
Yes because this thread isn't chock full of reasons why people insist it's alright, how was it intended to stop gold sellers? It was intended to stop exploits, hacks and other naughty activities involving modifications to the game - and being an honest player, it's not so much a pain to me as you babies are crying about it.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;36324599]how is this a reason for it to not be shit?
You're a grown adult so when something breaks you just walk away from it? great I guess. here's a better idea, it could not break at all? And when it does break we could acknowledge it as being bad?
also bolded, important points. A shit load of my friends who bought it agree that the DRM is fucking garbage, so your point is meaningless.
as for me, I can't even play the thing because my internet at home in the evenings isn't stable enough.
and as blizzard said themselves, the reason this shit is in the game in the first place is because of the auction house. if you're telling yourself the always online drm needed to be there for the friend system and shit, you are telling yourself an obvious lie[/QUOTE]
I understand that the world of internet communications isn't a 100% reliable quick method of transmitting information and that occasional the hamsters need a break. WoW goes down occasionally, WoW lag spikes occasionally, WoW has scheduled maintenance and patch times. Same with Starcraft 2. If we had a way for these things not to happen then I'd agree with you but it's just a fact of life that it doesn't work 100% of the time.
How is my point meaningless? A lot of people I know who got the game like the DRM. A lot of people you know who got the game don't like the DRM. Both points are valid, they are just opposite ends of the same experience. Invalidating someone elses experience with a service just because someone else had an opposite experience isn't constructive at all. A question though: How much of the game have your friends actually played?
I'm sorry you can't play Diablo 3 at home in the evenings, but surely this happens with other multiplayer games?
Source on that last statement? I'm sure the RMAH was part of it but considering all the other benefits to the player I'm not sure that is the express purpose.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;36324599]how is this a reason for it to not be shit?
You're a grown adult so when something breaks you just walk away from it? great I guess. here's a better idea, it could not break at all? And when it does break we could acknowledge it as being bad?
also bolded, important points. A shit load of my friends who bought it agree that the DRM is fucking garbage, so your point is meaningless.
as for me, I can't even play the thing because my internet at home in the evenings isn't stable enough.
and as blizzard said themselves, the reason this shit is in the game in the first place is because of the auction house (and probably because they wanted a reason to justify this shit). if you're telling yourself the always online drm needed to be there for the friend system and shit, you are telling yourself an obvious lie[/QUOTE]
Well it's quite clear really, he just thinks that the bnet connectivity is less of an intrusion and actually adds the game - it's called an opinion. It's hardly breaking, the *only* time servers are down these days is for maintenance, and well when it comes to being an adult there's nothing that screams infancy more than complaining blizzard engineers are actually fixing the problems.
I hardly see how your friends disagreeing renders his point meaningless, it shows that there's obviously a diversity in opinion regarding the system in place and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Would you mind linking where the said this is purely because of the auction house? I'd really love to see a source for that :)
[QUOTE=Raidyr;36324689]I understand that the world of internet communications isn't a 100% reliable quick method of transmitting information and that occasional the hamsters need a break. WoW goes down occasionally, WoW lag spikes occasionally, WoW has scheduled maintenance and patch times. Same with Starcraft 2. If we had a way for these things not to happen then I'd agree with you but it's just a fact of life that it doesn't work 100% of the time.
How is my point meaningless? A lot of people I know who got the game like the DRM. A lot of people you know who got the game don't like the DRM. Both points are valid, they are just opposite ends of the same experience. Invalidating someone elses experience with a service just because someone else had an opposite experience isn't constructive at all. A question though: How much of the game have your friends actually played?
I'm sorry you can't play Diablo 3 at home in the evenings, but surely this happens with other multiplayer games?
Source on that last statement? I'm sure the RMAH was part of it but considering all the other benefits to the player I'm not sure that is the express purpose.[/QUOTE]
I can't find the news node post because Garry reset the search thing, so it doesn't go back far enough.
[url]http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/01/diablo-3-cannot-be-played-offline/[/url]
Kinda shown in this article from a way back, where the first reason he gives for it, is that people would be able to duplicate items and cheat the auction house.
It's meaningless because it's entirely anecdotal. There is probably someone who has had a flawless experience with Games for Windows Live, but it doesn't mean anything.
And my friends have played hundreds of hours. Completed the game and such
Sure it happens with other multiplayer games, but Diablo would have been the perfect thing for me to hammer away at during these times.
[QUOTE=parket;36324751]Well it's quite clear really, he just thinks that the bnet connectivity is less of an intrusion and actually adds the game - it's called an opinion. It's hardly breaking, the *only* time servers are down these days is for maintenance, and well when it comes to being an adult there's nothing that screams infancy more than complaining blizzard engineers are actually fixing the problems.
I hardly see how your friends disagreeing renders his point meaningless, it shows that there's obviously a diversity in opinion regarding the system in place and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Would you mind linking where the said this is purely because of the auction house? I'd really love to see a source for that :)[/QUOTE]
It's meaningless because it's anecdotal evidence. It can't be used as an argument because there are both people that don't mind and people that do mind the DRM.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;36324789]I can't find the news node post because Garry reset the search thing, so it doesn't go back far enough.
[url]http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/01/diablo-3-cannot-be-played-offline/[/url]
Kinda shown in this article from a way back, where the first reason he gives for it, is that people would be able to duplicate items and cheat the auction house.
It's meaningless because it's entirely anecdotal. There is probably someone who has had a flawless experience with Games for Windows Live, but it doesn't mean anything.
And my friends have played hundreds of hours. Completed the game and such
Sure it happens with other multiplayer games, but Diablo would have been the perfect thing for me to hammer away at during these times.[/QUOTE]
I'm still not seeing how always online being an anti-cheat measure is a bad thing, especially when it can have such tremendous effects on the game's economy, rankings and player vs. player:
[quote]“We thought about this quite a bit,” says executive producer Rob Pardo. “One of the things that we felt was really import was that if you did play offline, if we allowed for that experience, you’d start a character, you’d get him all the way to level 20 or level 30 or level 40 or what have you, and then at that point you might decide to want to venture onto Battle.net. But you’d have to start a character from scratch, because there’d be no way for us to guarantee no cheats were involved, if we let you play on the client and then take that character online.”[/quote]
You have to think from a game designers point of view, especially since all of D3's operations are server side. Would making an offline singleplayer mode completely seperated from battle.net be worth it for the player? Never mind having to port all of that existing architecture client side [I]and[/I] exposing it to reverse engineers.
[QUOTE=parket;36324832]I'm still not seeing how always online being an anti-cheat measure is a bad thing, especially when it can have such tremendous effects on the game's economy, rankings and player vs. player:
You have to think from a game designers point of view, especially since all of D3's operations are server side. Would making an offline singleplayer mode completely seperated from battle.net be worth it for the player? [b]Never mind having to port all of that existing architecture client side [I]and[/I] exposing it to reverse engineers.[/b][/QUOTE]
This is the fucking problem I have with it. They deny us functionality because they're afraid of pirates.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36324864]This is the fucking problem I have with it. They deny us functionality because they're afraid of pirates.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's a fortunate side effect of their care about the game's economy, rankings and the soon to be implemented PvP. If you were given the choice, knowing statistics from Diablo 2 about offline players and knowing that implementing it would consume a massive amount of finite resources and endangering the bnet servers, you wouldn't say yes.
[QUOTE=parket;36324832]
You have to think from a game designers point of view[/QUOTE]
The critical flaw in trying to reason with people when it comes to video games.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;36324789]I can't find the news node post because Garry reset the search thing, so it doesn't go back far enough.
[URL]http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/01/diablo-3-cannot-be-played-offline/[/URL]
Kinda shown in this article from a way back, where the first reason he gives for it, is that people would be able to duplicate items and cheat the auction house.
It's meaningless because it's entirely anecdotal. There is probably someone who has had a flawless experience with Games for Windows Live, but it doesn't mean anything.
And my friends have played hundreds of hours. Completed the game and such
Sure it happens with other multiplayer games, but Diablo would have been the perfect thing for me to hammer away at during these times.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36324797]It's meaningless because it's anecdotal evidence. It can't be used as an argument because there are both people that don't mind and people that do mind the DRM.[/QUOTE]
Obviously it's anecdotal, everything is anecdotal. We are talking about experiences people are having with a piece of software.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36324864]This is the fucking problem I have with it. They deny us functionality because they're afraid of pirates.[/QUOTE]
Pirates being just one party who would be interested in the reverse engineering.
I meant that post where I broke down how my viewpoint is that the DRM works well for me and actually prefer it to be my last but decided to continue arguing before realizing there's no real point. Think I'm done with this thread.
[QUOTE=parket;36324910]Yeah, it's a fortunate side effect of their care about the game's economy, rankings and the soon to be implemented PvP. If you were given the choice, knowing statistics from Diablo 2 about offline players and knowing that implementing it would consume a massive amount of finite resources and endangering the bnet servers, you wouldn't say yes.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you keep saying that, and I don't agree at all. The economy and auction house bullshit is to cover up the turd that is the DRM. You can keep on sugarcoating it all you want, but it'll always stay shitty.
snip no point
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36324979]Yes, you keep saying that, and I don't agree at all. The economy and auction house bullshit is to cover up the turd that is the DRM. You can keep on sugarcoating it all you want, but it'll always stay shitty.[/QUOTE]
yes you're right, they don't want to make sure the gameplay is fun, balanced and fair so they have an enjoyable game
they want to take over the video game world with always online drm >:)
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