[QUOTE=Raidyr;36324976]The critical flaw in trying to reason with people when it comes to video games.
Obviously it's anecdotal, everything is anecdotal. We are talking about experiences people are having with a piece of software.
Pirates being just one party who would be interested in the reverse engineering.
I meant that post where I broke down how my viewpoint is that the DRM works well for me and actually prefer it to be my last but decided to continue arguing before realizing there's no real point. Think I'm done with this thread.
Good luck trying to get them to change their policy after it lead to the best selling PC game of all time I guess.[/QUOTE]
I think the sims would like to have a word with you.
[quote]“We thought about this quite a bit,” says executive producer Rob Pardo. “One of the things that we felt was really import was that if you did play offline, if we allowed for that experience, you’d start a character, you’d get him all the way to level 20 or level 30 or level 40 or what have you, and then at that point you might decide to want to venture onto Battle.net. But you’d have to start a character from scratch, because there’d be no way for us to guarantee no cheats were involved, if we let you play on the client and then take that character online.”[/quote]
So they made the choice for us. Great.
Why not put the option there to begin with? Some people like having something they can casually flip on and play on their own where ever they are, internet or not. Why do you think portable devices like the Gameboy were so popular way back, and still to this day are played, and handheld devices are still being made
I like diablo 3 in story, and with freinds.
Its neat, its kinda sad the game's DRM, and stuff.
Yet its a fun game, if bad net dont get it. Simple like dont get bf3 on pc with bad pc :Y
Shacknews is posting way to much about diablo 3.
Wow, there's some mature arguing in this thread. Insults and dumb-ass assumptions all over the place.
So grown adults ignore problems instead of trying to fix them? Doesn't sound quite right.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;36324485]I'm not defending it blindly, it just doesn't effect me negatively more than positively. Under a simple benefit-cost analysis I gain more from Diablo 3's always on DRM than I lose.
Outside of the occasional server maintenance or lag spike it's not an inconvenience at all, and when those things occur I simply stop playing and go do something else because I am a grown adult.
Again I'll bring up something I said earlier:
All of the people I know who bought the game acknowledge the benefits of this specific DRM Blizzard is using, as well as the downsides, but agree that the positives outweigh the negatives.
All of the people I know who are actively complaining about the DRM are people who have not actually played the game.
So I'd disagree, along with most of the people I know who bought the game, that it's been a pain.
[editline]14th June 2012[/editline]
I'd go so far as to say I'd want similar online features in most of the games I play, if I was sure there were companies outside of Blizzard who could run such a system as well as they do.[/QUOTE]
So, what do you gain exactly? Gold selling is aplenty and the DRM is hindering pirates for the moment but that doesn't really affect you. As far as I see it, honest players only gained lag and downtimes and there was no reason to force it on singleplayer (well there is indeed for Blizz, but not for the consumer).
Also you might be a grown adult, but a mature adult (and before you try to bring up that I'm using ad hominems, I might point out you just called everyone not on your side an immature brat) would not say "It's not working now, but oh well I'll do something else/I don't want to play now anyway". You paid for a product (paid more than usual, I might add) and you can't even use it when you want? What if I didn't sit down at my computer just to turn it on, then turn it off again and go outside? If I'm sitting at my computer, I'm evidently not feeling like doing something else.
I don't get why everyone must be so protective of their purchases. The DRM is shit, so what?
D3 was dead to me once they announced online only and no mod support.
D2 for me was all about the mods, playing through them with friends discovering all the new areas, monsters, items, mechanics and of course trying out completely new skill trees was so much fun.
Imagine stuff like Median, Eastern Sun, Zy-El or Nez on the D3 engine, it could have been amazing.
[QUOTE=parket;36324832]You have to think from a game designers point of view, especially since all of D3's operations are server side. Would making an offline singleplayer mode completely seperated from battle.net be worth it for the player? Never mind having to port all of that existing architecture client side [I]and[/I] exposing it to reverse engineers.[/QUOTE]
You've got it backwards. We shouldn't have to adapt our playstyles to our gaming to fit the designers point of view, the game designers should be changing and adapting how the game is played and designed to fit the players point of view.
Would making an offline singleplayer mode be worth it for us? Who are they to decide. Let us, the player, decide what is and isn't worth our time. I don't want developers to decide what is worth my time and what isn't.
And their offline to online argument is retarded. Any player who makes an offline character should know full well what they are getting into. They chose to make a single player only character, and they were fully aware that it's single player. If they want a make an online character, they'll have to suck it up and make a new character from scratch. Why are the rest of us getting punished because some people either can't read or are too lazy to make a new toon after knowing they made a single player only character.
[QUOTE=villa;36329989]You've got it backwards. We shouldn't have to adapt our playstyles to our gaming to fit the designers point of view, the game designers should be changing and adapting how the game is played and designed to fit the players point of view.
Would making an offline singleplayer mode be worth it for us? Who are they to decide. Let us, the player, decide what is and isn't worth our time. I don't want developers to decide what is worth my time and what isn't.
And their offline to online argument is retarded. Any player who makes an offline character should know full well what they are getting into. They chose to make a single player only character, and they were fully aware that it's single player. If they want a make an online character, they'll have to suck it up and make a new character from scratch. Why are the rest of us getting punished because some people either can't read or are too lazy to make a new toon after knowing they made a single player only character.[/QUOTE]
They have the statistics from D2, a singleplayer client would have been a waste of resources (which they were clearly lacking considering PvP wasn't released with the full game). I think they're fully capable of making a decision that would cut off say 2% MAYBE of players, because as he said in the interview - the vast majority are going to be using the online. Don't kid yourself.
[editline]15th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=acds;36326994]So, what do you gain exactly? Gold selling is aplenty and the DRM is hindering pirates for the moment but that doesn't really affect you. As far as I see it, honest players only gained lag and downtimes and there was no reason to force it on singleplayer (well there is indeed for Blizz, but not for the consumer).
Also you might be a grown adult, but a mature adult (and before you try to bring up that I'm using ad hominems, I might point out you just called everyone not on your side an immature brat) would not say "It's not working now, but oh well I'll do something else/I don't want to play now anyway". You paid for a product (paid more than usual, I might add) and you can't even use it when you want? What if I didn't sit down at my computer just to turn it on, then turn it off again and go outside? If I'm sitting at my computer, I'm evidently not feeling like doing something else.
I don't get why everyone must be so protective of their purchases. The DRM is shit, so what?[/QUOTE]
I've outlined exactly what they player benefits from battle.net connection earlier:
I can talk with my friends in WoW
I can talk with my friends also playing diablo
I can join my friends in diablo's games
I enjoy benefits of a relatively stable auction house economy due to lack of exploits
I enjoy benefits of a real money auction house since many of the drops I get are worth a lot due to how far I am in the game, and it's secure
I will enjoy policed player versus player since a license that is cheating will be constant and suspended.
I enjoy a non crooked ladder of progression through both PvE and PvP, (e.g. no achievement unlockers, so I'm not playing with people drastically below my skill level).
I enjoy the ability to join public games with people who also play fairly
[QUOTE=parket;36334177]They have the statistics from D2, a singleplayer client would have been a waste of resources (which they were clearly lacking considering PvP wasn't released with the full game). I think they're fully capable of making a decision that would cut off say 2% MAYBE of players, because as he said in the interview - the vast majority are going to be using the online. Don't kid yourself.
[editline]15th June 2012[/editline]
I've outlined exactly what they player benefits from battle.net connection earlier:
I can talk with my friends in WoW
I can talk with my friends also playing diablo
I can join my friends in diablo's games
I enjoy benefits of a relatively stable auction house economy due to lack of exploits
I enjoy benefits of a real money auction house since many of the drops I get are worth a lot due to how far I am in the game, and it's secure
I will enjoy policed player versus player since a license that is cheating will be constant and suspended.
I enjoy a non crooked ladder of progression through both PvE and PvP, (e.g. no achievement unlockers, so I'm not playing with people drastically below my skill level).
I enjoy the ability to join public games with people who also play fairly[/QUOTE]
you're wasting your time against the facepunch babies squad
[QUOTE=RichyZ;36334315]i like all the features of bnet and all, but damned if im not already bored of the little content that blizz put in the game
no really, i've beaten normal and nightmare as well have started act 2 and the game is just boring now[/QUOTE]
That's exactly where i'm at
I explored everything but Whimsyshire in Normal, and just over halfway done with Nightmare and can't pick the game up anymore
[QUOTE=Protocol7;36334366]That's exactly where i'm at
I explored everything but Whimsyshire in Normal, and just over halfway done with Nightmare and can't pick the game up anymore[/QUOTE]
that's what diablo is though, i take it you never played D2?
[QUOTE=ketchup v2;36334401]that's what diablo is though, i take it you never played D2?[/QUOTE]
only for a few minutes
I mean don't get me wrong I enjoyed what I played but I just can't pick it up anymore, i'll quit like 5 minutes after
This might be the shittiest argument I've ever seen on Facepunch. Congratulations.
I'm not judging the DRM issue; I hate it, but that's not the point I'm going to make. I'm going to talk about server's being unavailable.
IF, you want to implement an always online system, then it should be operational 100% of the time. There is NO EXCUSE for server downtime or being unable to play the game. Blizzard knew that there was going to be record amounts of server traffic, because it's Diablo 3. Millions of people are going to buy and play the game all at once. Servers need to be able to handle all traffic all the time.
Server downtime due to maintenance is also incredibly unprofessional and rude to your customers. If I can't access my content at any single moment because of something Blizzard has done, then they should not be operating a system of gameplay dependent on them. As a customer, I understand it's a two way agreement to this setup. I provide an internet connection, and they provide the servers I access. If my internet goes out, then Blizzard is not at fault, but Blizzard better damn well make sure their side of the deal is always up.
A huge game company experienced in massive amounts of traffic has no excuse to not have server access 24/7. It's incredibly unprofessional, and I'd say it should almost be illegal.
[QUOTE=TheLolrus;36334985]This might be the shittiest argument I've ever seen on Facepunch. Congratulations.[/QUOTE]
Anything involving Apple takes the cake
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;36335068]I'm not judging the DRM issue; I hate it, but that's not the point I'm going to make. I'm going to talk about server's being unavailable.
IF, you want to implement an always online system, then it should be operational 100% of the time. There is NO EXCUSE for server downtime or being unable to play the game. Blizzard knew that there was going to be record amounts of server traffic, because it's Diablo 3. Millions of people are going to buy and play the game all at once. Servers need to be able to handle all traffic all the time.
Server downtime due to maintenance is also incredibly unprofessional and rude to your customers. If I can't access my content at any single moment because of something Blizzard has done, then they should not be operating a system of gameplay dependent on them. As a customer, I understand it's a two way agreement to this setup. I provide an internet connection, and they provide the servers I access. If my internet goes out, then Blizzard is not at fault, but Blizzard better damn well make sure their side of the deal is always up.
A huge game company experienced in massive amounts of traffic has no excuse to not have server access 24/7. It's incredibly unprofessional, and I'd say it should almost be illegal.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but that's pretty much a technical impossibility, especially since they're obviously going to need to do server maintenance to combat balance issues, exploits and the such. They do try to keep it to off peak times but shit happens. And while they may be experienced in managing online games, I don't think any game launch they've ever done managed to keep the servers up for long.
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;36335068]I'm not judging the DRM issue; I hate it, but that's not the point I'm going to make. I'm going to talk about server's being unavailable.
IF, you want to implement an always online system, then it should be operational 100% of the time. There is NO EXCUSE for server downtime or being unable to play the game. Blizzard knew that there was going to be record amounts of server traffic, because it's Diablo 3. Millions of people are going to buy and play the game all at once. Servers need to be able to handle all traffic all the time.
Server downtime due to maintenance is also incredibly unprofessional and rude to your customers. If I can't access my content at any single moment because of something Blizzard has done, then they should not be operating a system of gameplay dependent on them. As a customer, I understand it's a two way agreement to this setup. I provide an internet connection, and they provide the servers I access. If my internet goes out, then Blizzard is not at fault, but Blizzard better damn well make sure their side of the deal is always up.
A huge game company experienced in massive amounts of traffic has no excuse to not have server access 24/7. It's incredibly unprofessional, and I'd say it should almost be illegal.[/QUOTE]
Diablo 3 has been having around 95% uptime the last couple weeks with most of downtime on the weekly scheduled maintainence, which at least for the US happens in the morning, early afternoon time when population is relatively low.
[QUOTE=ketchup v2;36334302]you're wasting your time against the facepunch babies squad[/QUOTE]
"Everyone that doesn't agree with me is a Blizzard hating bandwagon! And they're also babies squad who haven't played the game!
However! I shall support the guy that agrees with me by telling him that it's useless because they don't agree with me!"
I have played Diablo 3 and I'm almost at Inferno. I don't have problems with always online DRM because I have a very good internet connection. However, it is completely ignorant to ignore people that can't afford a great internet connection or have a limited connection. They payed 60 dollars for their games, if their enjoyment of the game is diminished by the fact that they can't play offline, then they may very well complain.
You've been, for the last few pages I read, completely defending every single Blizzard choice and decisions, and even stating that the game wasn't bad in any way - which would make it perfect. You also have stated that the launch was sub-optimal, which means that you are contradicting yourself. Then you start going on the loop that every mistakes in Diablo 3 is actually not Blizzard's mistake, but their own community and playerbase. Does Blizzard really need a random guy on Facepunch to defend it? I don't think so.
A lot of the benefits said from parket along the always online DRM depends on you. Do I benefit as much as him from it? No, not really.
[Quote=Parket]Benefits of always on DRM
I can talk with my friends in WoW - [B]that can be useful, but not everybody has friends that play WoW or even play WoW
[/B]I can talk with my friends also playing diablo - [B]Okay, but you don't need to talk to your friends playing Diablo if you aren't online or don't want to play online. Talking to your friends playing the same game is fairly basic and needed these days in multiplayer games[/B]
I can join my friends in diablo's games [B]-If you don't want to play online, then you have no use for this[/B]
I enjoy benefits of a relatively stable auction house economy due to lack of exploits - [B]I disagree here, the auction house has been anything but stable since release. Items have been going for millions, and a lot of items are hidden because Blizzard didn't design their auction browser well. So most often you see shitty legendary sold for millions, and don't see other items that have more reasonable cost and better stats because they're shadowed by the legendary in questions. I have seen 46 pages of Legendary, what the fuck? A lot of items are sold in millions to billions, and the real money auction house is giving out objects for real money at this point, and the 15% rate is just so Blizzard can make money out of it, which I certainly find odd. Also, it is centered on farming the same spots for gold and items, and most items found in game now are "Can I auction this" rather than "Can I use this"[/B]
I enjoy benefits of a real money auction house since many of the drops I get are worth a lot due to how far I am in the game, and it's secure - [B]That solely depends on luck, and you can't know if it's secure yet, the thing has been released for like, 3 days. Again, the Auction house doesn't have to tie in with the game.[/B]
I will enjoy policed player versus player since a license that is cheating will be constant and suspended. [B]-You cannot know this. The PVP isn't even out yet. Cheaters always find a way (You don't need to crack a game to cheat in it)[/B]
I enjoy a non crooked ladder of progression through both PvE and PvP, (e.g. no achievement unlockers, so I'm not playing with people drastically below my skill level). [B]- Again, you can't be sure of that yet. Cheaters always exist. [/B]
I enjoy the ability to join public games with people who also play fairly [B]- That's only useful if you want to play online.[/B][/Quote]
Most of his points aren't geared toward people that wants to play offline. If it was an option, then sure, I'd be glad to use it. There's your bad point - it is forced when you play Diablo 3, and it requires you to be always online.
Best of both world? You can play Diablo 3 offline, and Online. Why are you guys so upset about people wanting to play offline?
[QUOTE=raccoon2112;36314604]How about don't buy it and wait for Torchlight 2 instead.[/QUOTE]
Oh, T2 is so much more fun than D3.
1. It has more depth. Don't tell me that a game where description of a spell says "IT DEALS DAMAGE AND HEALS" has more depth than T2 where they tell you exactly what a spell does and amount of damage/heal/whatever it deals
2. 10 slots for spells instead of 4
3. Combat is faster paced
4. Superior variety of gems (diamonds, sapphires, eyes, skulls etc.), weapons, spells, enemies
5. Scrolls aka findable spells that you can equip on anyone. Even on pets (tornados, fireballs, explosive zombies, skeleton archers etc.) makes the game so much more fun
6. Charge bars
[url="http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1186067"]I own both games[/url] and have over 30 hours in D3, so don't give me that "YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT" bullshit. Thanks
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;36336469]Oh, T2 is so much more fun than D3.
1. It has more depth. Don't tell me that a game where description of a spell says "IT DEALS DAMAGE AND HEALS" has more depth than T2 where they tell you exactly what a spell does and amount of damage/heal/whatever it deals [/QUOTE]
All of my rage in Diablo 3. I want fucking numbers to tell me how much I benefit from using said skills, or else, I can't compare them and I just use the things that seems best.
[Quote]
4. Superior variety of gems (diamonds, sapphires, eyes, skulls etc.), weapons, spells, enemies
[/Quote]
I wished you could remove gems without breaking weapons though. If there is one thing I like about Diablo 3, it's that you can remove gems without breaking items, or remove gems on an item without breaking the gems.
Yeah, Pre-ordered Torchlight 2, I feel it's going to be much much better than Diablo 3 already.
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;36336469]Oh, T2 is so much more fun than D3.
1. It has more depth. Don't tell me that a game where description of a spell says "IT DEALS DAMAGE AND HEALS" has more depth than T2 where they tell you exactly what a spell does and amount of damage/heal/whatever it deals[/quote]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3cJKU.jpg[/IMG]
Sup?
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;36336469]6. Charge bars[/QUOTE]
If this awful mechanic makes TL2 more fun for you, I feel bad FOR you...
[QUOTE=Chirno;36336582][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3cJKU.jpg[/IMG]
Sup?
If this awful mechanic makes TL2 more fun for you, I feel bad FOR you...[/QUOTE]
I don't see that in-game. Why?
[B][Quote] If this awful mechanic makes TL2 more fun for you, I feel bad FOR you[/Quote][/B]
Okay, why do you have to be an asshole?
[QUOTE=Feuver;36336591]I don't see that in-game. Why?[/QUOTE]
There is a check box for it in Options>Gameplay>Interface>Show advanced tooltips.
Its right above elective mode.
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;36336469]3. Combat is faster paced[/QUOTE]
How is combat in D3 not fast paced?
[QUOTE=Feuver;36336591]I don't see that in-game. Why?[/QUOTE]
Because you don't look at options when you play games and then you bitch about how things aren't there, when they are.
[QUOTE=Chirno;36336615]Because you don't look at options when you play games and then you bitch about how things aren't there, when they are.[/QUOTE]
Why isn't there on default then? It's something fairly fucking important in Diablo clones. How about you stop being an asshole too, that'd be a great development.
FYI, I have checked the options, but I figured something as important as this would've been fucking on by default. I have used elective mode as well.
[QUOTE=Feuver;36336625]Why isn't there on default then? It's something fairly fucking important in Diablo clones. How about you stop being an asshole too, that'd be a great development.
FYI, I have checked the options, but I figured something as important as this would've been fucking on by default. I have used elective mode as well.[/QUOTE]
Detailed tooltips and elective mode are by default off because levels 1-60 are aimed to a broad audience many of who may not be put off by a lot of statistics in their abilities or may even make the wrong choices and play with a frustrating build.
So it is just assumed that anyone who wanted the information or elective mode would use the option to turn it on.
[QUOTE=Valnar;36336606]There is a check box for it in Options>Gameplay>Interface>Show advanced tooltips.
Its right above elective mode.
[/quote]
Thank you.
[editline]15th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Valnar;36336644]Detailed tooltips and elective mode are by default off because levels 1-60 are aimed to a broad audience many of who may not be put off by a lot of statistics in their abilities or may even make the wrong choices and play with a frustrating build.
So it is just assumed that anyone who wanted the information or elective mode would use the option to turn it on.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I just didn't like Chiorno's tone at all to begin with.
[quote]I can talk with my friends in WoW - [B]that can be useful, but not everybody has friends that play WoW or even play WoW[/B]
[B]I can talk with my friends also playing diablo - Okay, but you don't need to talk to your friends playing Diablo if you aren't online or don't want to play online. Talking to your friends playing the same game is fairly basic and needed these days in multiplayer games[/B]
I can join my friends in diablo's games [B]-If you don't want to play online, then you have no use for this[/B]
I enjoy benefits of a relatively stable auction house economy due to lack of exploits [B]- I disagree here, the auction house has been anything but stable since release. Items have been going for millions, and a lot of items are hidden because Blizzard didn't design their auction browser well. So most often you see shitty legendary sold for millions, and don't see other items that have more reasonable cost and better stats because they're shadowed by the legendary in questions. I have seen 46 pages of Legendary, what the fuck? A lot of items are sold in millions to billions, and the real money auction house is giving out objects for real money at this point, and the 15% rate is just so Blizzard can make money out of it, which I certainly find odd. Also, it is centered on farming the same spots for gold and items, and most items found in game now are "Can I auction this" rather than "Can I use this"[/B]
I enjoy benefits of a real money auction house since many of the drops I get are worth a lot due to how far I am in the game, and it's secure - [B]That solely depends on luck, and you can't know if it's secure yet, the thing has been released for like, 3 days. Again, the Auction house doesn't have to tie in with the game.[/B]
I will enjoy policed player versus player since a license that is cheating will be constant and suspended. -[B]You cannot know this. The PVP isn't even out yet. Cheaters always find a way (You don't need to crack a game to cheat in it)[/B]
I enjoy a non crooked ladder of progression through both PvE and PvP, (e.g. no achievement unlockers, so I'm not playing with people drastically below my skill level)[B]. - Again, you can't be sure of that yet. Cheaters always exist. [/B]
I enjoy the ability to join public games with people who also play fairly [B]- That's only useful if you want to play online.[/B][/quote]
Firstly I added those to show that battle.net connectivity gives most people more than just "lag and shit" as it was so eloquently stated. Anywho you seem to need the blaringly obvious deconstructed further to comprehend it so here goes:
1. So you mean they won't get the benefit of using them if they don't actually use it, that's kind of the nature of any service...
2. ^
3.^
4. You mean because there's statistical outliers of people placing items above and below their MSP the economy is unstable? If anything the lack of information which leads to the purchase of these outliers is similar if not the same to conditions in our worlds economy... the design could obviously be better on the auction house but that really doesn't pertain the economy outside the fraction of people who can't (or refuse) to use it. Also, it's region wide - what do you expect for there to be like 5 legendaries in a region or something? The 15% rate is obviously there to support server costs, the game can't be self sustaining without it. As for the farming? Welcome to diablo.
5. Drops are obviously random, however items at end tier are 63 in terms of item level - I get rewarded for playing better directly. Of course the auction house ties into the game, it's probably the best source of gold bar farming which you've already complained about. Make up your mind?
6. Yes I can know that? Player cheats in PvP -> player's license gets banned -> Play can't play. I in no way are implying that there will not ever be cheats for D3 (there already are), however I can say with confidence there won't be effective speedhacks (blizzard disconnect you if any acknowledgement packets are ignored).
7. Achievements are handled serverside as it is, players could not reward themselves with achievements unless they had access to blizzards servers. So yeah, I do know this.
8. See point one.
[QUOTE=Feuver;36336625]Why isn't there on default then? It's something fairly fucking important in Diablo clones. How about you stop being an asshole too, that'd be a great development.
FYI, I have checked the options, but I figured something as important as this would've been fucking on by default. I have used elective mode as well.[/QUOTE]
It's not enabled by default because it's not important to the Average Joe who just wants to play through the game maybe once or twice on normal. Just like elective mode isn't enabled by default because it can be very confusing for some casual player. If you want it, it's there for you to turn on and if you don't, then they're not going to try and shove numbers down your throat.
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