We need to stop talking about how difficult Dark Souls is

[Cold]

[QUOTE=Ricool06;50148657]But in other RPGs, the stats are explained. Even with just a tooltip.
This is the stats screen in DS1:
[t]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/885218947541573760/466549661A58ADA179D8C7A0A94250B1345EFCE5/[/t]
Now look at this from a newbie's perspective, without looking at the wiki, do you pick the sword which upgrades Poise by 1, or the shield which upgrades Vitality by 1?
It all means nothing when you can't even understand the effects that a good or rare weapon has vs a plain one.

I have never seen someone spend any significant amount of time in this game who hasn't said that they read the wiki a lot.
In any game, but in a role playing game especially, this breaks immersion and is a boring way to have to learn the game.[/QUOTE]

Okay? Did you read the post i replied too?

[QUOTE=KennyAwsum;50145803]To be fair, you can probably get the basics of the game down without looking at wiki but eventually you'll be like "oh shit so how do i get better pyromancy magic" or "oh man this sword sucks where can i find a better one" or "why does that guy have a dragon face, i want a dragon face is there a cult that does that?"
and you'll resort to the wiki.[/QUOTE]

[meppers]

[QUOTE=Ricool06;50148657]But in other RPGs, [B]the stats are explained. Even with just a tooltip.[/B]
This is the stats screen in DS1:
[t]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/885218947541573760/466549661A58ADA179D8C7A0A94250B1345EFCE5/[/t]
Now look at this from a newbie's perspective, without looking at the wiki, do you pick the sword which upgrades Poise by 1, or the shield which upgrades Vitality by 1?
It all means nothing when you can't even understand the effects that a good or rare weapon has vs a plain one.

I have never seen someone spend any significant amount of time in this game who hasn't said that they read the wiki a lot.
In any game, but in a role playing game especially, this breaks immersion and is a boring way to have to learn the game.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.pcinvasion.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/dark-souls-2-pc-guide-3-1024x576.jpg[/IMG]

????????????????

[Wickerman123]

[QUOTE=J!NX;50144525]Dark Souls being "the game gamers need to beat to be called a gamer" is like an ancient meme now and yet I still hear it every now and again. It says it's some kind of unreal hard game

its not that hard

just get patiant[/QUOTE]

Not even joking, my games design lecturer mentioned this passively in a lecture like it was fact the everyone already knew. I still here it regularly.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Chaseymusica;50148444]Dark Souls 2 was difficult in the wrong way. Rather than a mechanically challenging enemy, they throw a bunch of them at you at one time. The third and first game has a healthy mix imo[/QUOTE]

the third game throws even more enemies at you (up until SoFs happened)

dark souls 2 didn't throw huge amounts too often either, I feel like all games do that in a lot of areas. People just remember ds2 the most because it does it sooner than later

[editline]17th April 2016[/editline]

[QUOTE=Ricool06;50148657]But in other RPGs, the stats are explained. Even with just a tooltip.
This is the stats screen in DS1:

Now look at this from a newbie's perspective, without looking at the wiki, do you pick the sword which upgrades Poise by 1, or the shield which upgrades Vitality by 1?
It all means nothing when you can't even understand the effects that a good or rare weapon has vs a plain one.

I have never seen someone spend any significant amount of time in this game who hasn't said that they read the wiki a lot.
In any game, but in a role playing game especially, this breaks immersion and is a boring way to have to learn the game.[/QUOTE]

if you literally cannot play this game without a wiki then you may not be able to pay attention enough to even play the game
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/gJEnEBs.png[/IMG]

Wiki's are super helpful for this game but I always use them for exact details like invisibility frames and secrets

I got to where I was however (far in 3, beat 1 and 2) by mostly doing it myself and experimenting

[editline]17th April 2016[/editline]

[QUOTE=ThatSprite;50148107]dark souls 2 was a joke in terms of difficulty

oh hey lets just throw another [Big enemy, slow attack, lots of damage, requires patience] into EVERY SINGLE AREA IN THE GAME.[/QUOTE]

if you think that's annoying wait until you see the mace enemies in ds3

massive health, massive damage, unpredictable, basically impossible to get around their shield. You really can only kill them if you are patient or in coop

[lavacano]

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;50145639]It also does the series a huge disservice to belittle the all around incredible experience of playing a dark souls game for the first time by just describing it as an extreme test of skill[/QUOTE]

Things like this are exactly what make me incredibly disinterested in the series as a whole (that and I'm under the impression that it's a PlayStation exclusive, but I could be wrong). While I'm sure the games are probably fine, and maybe even within that sweet spot of "actually hard, not bullshit-hard" that the industry can't seem to get to consistently, the community strikes me as a bunch of elitist, stuck up pricks and I'd really rather not associate with that kind of crowd at all.

I'm aware that "git gud" and so forth started as a joke, but most Souls players don't seem to think it's a joke anymore.

[editline]false merge[/editline]

ok, I misinterpreted the post I've quoted here, I thought it said "belittling people who don't do very well in the game" for some reason, but my sentiment still stands

[pointyface]

I've beat Bloodborne 5 times and I'm getting through DS1 for the first time and I've learned that the games aren't particularly hard(unless you have some sort of mental disability) because any situation in these games can be solved by playing it cool, studying the situation, and formulating a plan to deal with it.

The thing about Dark Souls is that whether you find it easy or difficult, it's definitely not for casuals. You have to be focused on the game and you can't just mindlessly go through them

From Software's other games like Armored Core, are actually fucking hard and no amount of thinking can get you through some of the situations

[octopod]

[QUOTE=pointyface;50151086]I've beat Bloodborne 5 times and I'm getting through DS1 for the first time and I've learned that the games aren't particularly hard(unless you have some sort of mental disability) because any situation in these games can be solved by playing it cool, studying the situation, and formulating a plan to deal with it.

The thing about Dark Souls is that whether you find it easy or difficult, it's definitely not for casuals. You have to be focused on the game and you can't just mindlessly go through them

From Software's other games like Armored Core, are actually fucking hard and no amount of thinking can get you through some of the situations[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much why it's hard. I've died 10 times to the first boss in DS3 and I still haven't beaten the second one yet because I can't read some of the moves in order to dodge at right time. It's a fun game but I can't get used to playing patiently for some reason and that always gets me killed.

To me, all the "it's not that hard" posts ultimately come down to "its easy if you're good at the game".

[meanwhile]

i know someone who always says "you're not a true gamer[1] if you say dark souls is easy[2]"

[1]: just don't
[2]: have you even played - no, even SEEN a dark souls video?

[Mickyan]

[QUOTE=lavacano;50150504]Things like this are exactly what make me incredibly disinterested in the series as a whole (that and I'm under the impression that it's a PlayStation exclusive, but I could be wrong). While I'm sure the games are probably fine, and maybe even within that sweet spot of "actually hard, not bullshit-hard" that the industry can't seem to get to consistently, the community strikes me as a bunch of elitist, stuck up pricks and I'd really rather not associate with that kind of crowd at all.

I'm aware that "git gud" and so forth started as a joke, but most Souls players don't seem to think it's a joke anymore.

[editline]false merge[/editline]

ok, I misinterpreted the post I've quoted here, I thought it said "belittling people who don't do very well in the game" for some reason, but my sentiment still stands[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to say you're wrong because I'm sure there are people like that but why would you ever factor in the community to decide whether to play a game, especially one that doesn't even have verbal or written communication and is largely single player focused

There's no way you're going to "associate" (whatever the hell does that even mean) with the community unless you go out of your way to

[Fr3ddi3]

Don't like dark souls because fantasy is not really my thing but too fucking right, i like my games hard so i actually have to exert some effort to beat them, i'm sick to death of breezing through a game i paid 40 flipping quid for in a few hours or having to wait for an NPC to kick a door down before we can advance just because some of the players might get lost in the own arse.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=NightmareX91;50151881]i know someone who always says "you're not a true gamer[1] if you say dark souls is easy[2]"

[1]: just don't
[2]: have you even played - no, even SEEN a dark souls video?[/QUOTE]

I'd tell them to fuck off and laugh

[editline]18th April 2016[/editline]

Imagine telling a speedrunner that dark souls isn't easy

meanwhile they once held the world record for no hit run for a month

that plus, if he's that into the "dark souls is hard and you are only a true gamer if you play it" he probably isn't very good at it :U

[editline]18th April 2016[/editline]

the biggest reason dark souls is hard is because it isn't... HARD, it's just, like, in zelda, you learn how to beat an enemy in like 5 seconds if you're good because they are very very simple. You pretty much can spot a bosses weakness within 5 seconds. In Dark Souls, most good enemies take about 5 minutes to learn, EACH, and you have to deeply evalaute them and understand and observe them, learn their movesets.

Every single boss is unique in dark souls and zelda both. The only difference is one is simple in design but not poorly made, and dark souls says

"Well fucker, learn it yourself, we aren't helping you"

and pushes you out the door.

[Benstokes]

[QUOTE=lavacano;50150504]I'm aware that "git gud" and so forth started as a joke, but most Souls players don't seem to think it's a joke anymore.[/QUOTE]

Other way around. "Git gud" is an exaggerated parody of the kind of people who say "Dark Souls isn't hard, you're just bad; get good."

[Downsider]

I don't get it. How is it not harder than other games if you have to practice in order to get good at the game?

Like, is blowing a whistle just as easy as playing the trumpet? It's just as easy, just requires practice? No, it's more difficult because it requires patience and practice.

You guys remind me of the people who say shit like "Pshh, Michael Phelps isn't that great at swimming, I'd be just as good if I swam and practiced all the time!"

[Curls]

[QUOTE=RichyZ;50158109]Dark Souls isnt some soulcrushing unfair bullshit but to call it easy is a bit disengenuous, hardly anyone had an easy time on their first run

Unless you use magic but is that really playing the game?[/QUOTE]

magic is literally easy mode

[editline]19th April 2016[/editline]

if you play dark souls on your first go using anything but melee you're losing out

[Cold]

Oh yeah, i forgot bows, crossbows, throwing daggers, hexes, pyromancies, miracles and sorceries, ultra greatswords, black blade, great shields and ever summoning anyone to help you, isn't actually playing the game.

No wonder this game is so hard