Mass Effect 4's first screens glimpsed over BioWare Montreal's shoulders; promise "new worlds" - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42812608]There are no signs. It's all just grabbing at straws to make the vomit inducing ending not hurt so much. You guys are giving BioWare way to much fucking credit where they deserve none. Those "signs" with no explanation are just their shit writing and that's all there is to it. There is no clever hidden shit or whatever. What you call an "open ending" I call a terrible ending. After 3 fucking games I expect a concise ending that isn't full of stupid bullshit that people have to come up with half-baked theories to explain and ease their pain.[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone is actually saying the indoctrination theory is definitely true, just that it fits and would be much better than what we actually got. If there weren't any signs of it the theory wouldn't of appeared in the first place. These videos explain some of them: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI[/media] There's this site as well: [url]http://masseffectindoctrination.blogspot.co.uk/[/url] The real explanation for it all is that it is due to poor writing, but Shephard being indoctrinated would make more sense.

[QUOTE=Cone;42810759]i think i would have been fine with the Reapers being defeatable if they kept it vague what they would actually do to the galaxy. in ME1 the only stuff they actually showed you was a bunch of freaky looking tentacle aliens screaming in terror and dying, and some gross machine needle-teeth being covered with blood and opening up to scream. all it tells you is that there's these dudes named the Reapers, and they killed your benevolent precursors on a scale too grand and horrible to describe properly. it's really genuinely the closest i've seen a game come to a proper Lovecraftian end-of-the-world scenario, just because it's so vague and yet so nightmarish. you get the sense that even the people being killed didn't understand what was happening. Mass Effect 2 had the same thing going on if you wait for the countdown in Arrival, where it doesn't really show you [I]too[/I] much, but lets you know that it's fucking BAD NEWS right as everyone dies screaming in fear. there's so much buildup to the vagueness. but then it turns out that they just make cyborg zombies out of dudes and brainwash some people, and that's it. they should never have told you as much as they did[/QUOTE] Yeah, this is why I don't think the Dark Matter ending is any better. I really liked the idea that the reapers motivations, even if explained, would still only really make sense to them.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;42812824]Yeah, this is why I don't think the Dark Matter ending is any better. I really liked the idea that the reapers motivations, even if explained, would still only really make sense to them.[/QUOTE] Unfortunatly, we're already grinding up against the Lovecraftian world of, "We're so powerful that we just ignore you." How the fuck do you fight that?

How does it make them lamer? They're literally turned from sentient badasses who are forcing life to evolve at any cost to "save it" (with them in control) versus being actual remote-control space matrix-crabs led around by a holographic child-Neo who doesn't understand the term "inappropriate mental touching". Yeeah, I'm pretty sure I know which version is actually threatening.

[QUOTE=Swilly;42812967]Unfortunatly, we're already grinding up against the Lovecraftian world of, "We're so powerful that we just ignore you." How the fuck do you fight that?[/QUOTE] by nerfing all the reapers in the third installment of course [editline]ps the endings still sucked if you think about it[/editline] Also about the indoctrination theory is that the series clearly established what the effects of indoctrination are. The whole endgame, despite being horribly stupid and filled with plotholes, doesn't meet the criteria for indoctrination. Vendetta even says something along the lines "you are recovering me from indoctrinated forces?" to Shep and co. after a scene where he shuts down when an indoctrinated lame-ass cyborg spess ninja enters the room where Shep and co. are in. Sheppy's clearly not indoctrinated in the slightest then, and it takes a good long while to indoctrinate someone subtly, and which a VI can physically detect. Indoc. theory is really worse than the Synthesis ending.

[QUOTE=nightlord;42812816]I don't think anyone is actually saying the indoctrination theory is definitely true, just that it fits and would be much better than what we actually got. If there weren't any signs of it the theory wouldn't of appeared in the first place. These videos explain some of them: The real explanation for it all is that it is due to poor writing, but Shephard being indoctrinated would make more sense.[/QUOTE] Pretty hilarious you think regulars to the ME thread haven't seen and rather handily debunked the shit out this lameness a year ago.

[QUOTE=nightlord;42812816]I don't think anyone is actually saying the indoctrination theory is definitely true, just that it fits and would be much better than what we actually got. If there weren't any signs of it the theory wouldn't of appeared in the first place. These videos explain some of them: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI[/media] There's this site as well: [url]http://masseffectindoctrination.blogspot.co.uk/[/url] The real explanation for it all is that it is due to poor writing, but Shephard being indoctrinated would make more sense.[/QUOTE] And I'm saying it doesn't fit and isn't better. It's basically conspiracy theory tripe on the level of people who think 9/11 was an inside job. It's that retarded. Shepard being indoctrinated would not makes sense because it goes against his character that has been established and developed over the course of three games. Having him suddenly be so weak willed that he gets mind controlled is beyond silly and an insult to his established character quite frankly.

[QUOTE=Loadingue;42812228]Not true, some signs are definitely troubling and are never given an explanation or something close. The most striking sign, in my opinion, was right after Shepard is transported to the Citadel, at the end of the game. He wakes up and opens his eyes suddenly, like electrocuted, right as Anderson whispers "Shepard!" while a suspiciously deep/electronic (Reaper-ish, you might say) sound plays. Even if the Endoctrination Theory is just "it's all an hallucination" and we have no idea what happens, I think it's still more believable (and enjoyable) than the actual ending we've got. I'm not sure it's called the same in English, but in French we call it an "open ending": we just don't know how it ends, it's up to the player's imagination. I have no problem with that.[/QUOTE] yes, true. When both Patrick Weekes and John Dombrowski both say in english, more than once, "There is NO indoctrination", both on their own forums and in front of a recording camera and live audience, it makes the indoctrination scenes almost [I]too[/I] credible to be believed, almost as if they were the desperate scrabblings of someone directly transposing a theory from another story onto Mass Effect.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42812608]There are no signs. It's all just grabbing at straws to make the vomit inducing ending not hurt so much. You guys are giving BioWare way to much fucking credit where they deserve none. Those "signs" with no explanation are just their shit writing and that's all there is to it. There is no clever hidden shit or whatever. What you call an "open ending" I call a terrible ending. After 3 fucking games I expect a concise ending that isn't full of stupid bullshit that people have to come up with half-baked theories to explain and ease their pain.[/QUOTE] It's not about Bioware hiding something, it's about what I want to believe. Even if it's the way they intended it, I still choose to believe in the IT. Yeah, it's pretty much like atheism versus religion. Also, you just choose to believe that the example sign I mentioned means nothing. Anyone seeing that scene should ask "what's up with this" in their right mind. Just like everyone should know that Shepard's endoctrinated dreams are bound to lead somewhere. The Endoctrination Theory wasn't invented to turn a pile of crap into a diamond, it is the logical conclusion to various elements that were brought up throughout the series. Well before ME3 was released, people already thought about Shepard being indoctrinated. The question was "would the player be aware of it?" since we know since ME1 that indoctrinated people are not conscious of it.

[QUOTE=Loadingue;42813275] The Endoctrination Theory wasn't invented to turn a pile of crap into a diamond[/QUOTE] Sure seems that way to me since it has been debunked six ways from fucking Sunday. It's a pile of crap and should be treated as such. Anyone seeing "that scene" should go "Who wrote this fucking crap!? It's terrible!" because that's what it is.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42813335]Sure seems that way to me since it has been debunked six ways from fucking Sunday. It's a pile of crap and should be treated as such. Anyone seeing "that scene" should go "Who wrote this fucking crap!? It's terrible!" because that's what it is.[/QUOTE] The ending still sucks anyway, it's barely even about quality. For me, it's a question of logic. The IT ending is more logical than the actual ending. Which is kinda funny since the former is concretely "we have no clue what happens", while the latter is "tons of weird stuff and non-sense out of nowhere".

[QUOTE=nightlord;42810362]In what way was the indoctrination theory bad? I don't think the game should of ended there if it was true but it was much better than what we got. In what way doesn't it fit the lore? Shephard had all the signs of being indoctrinated.[/QUOTE] The guy molded simple game mechanics and writing errors into a bunch of loosely-related information and called it a theory that everyone who doesn't understand how a video game works will instantly believe.

[QUOTE=garfield;42798110]First picture, what is he doing ? The controller is not even turned on and he's looking at the windows desktop. "Let's pretend I'm playing an early prototype of Mass Effect 4, let's start the hype !"[/QUOTE] xbox controllers are fully compatible with windows

[QUOTE=27X;42809102]The indoctrination theory is pants-on-face retarded and literally the same shit as "THIS SERIES IS ACTUALLY ALL A DREAM FINN IS DYING IN THE HOSPITAL AND JAKE STARVED TO DEATH WAITING FOR HIM TO COME HOME." It's fucking TVT level stupid and doesn't even fit the lore the game provides other than Reapers and Leviathans can control sentients to certain degrees based on how invasive the power/tech used is. That's it. Pretty much. He had a basic set of endings, but nothing specific, nor would he have been able to, as several races and characters were supposed to be completely dependent on the choices the player made thereof.[/QUOTE] No the indoctrination theory makes a lot of sense, and no it doesn't make it all a dream, it just makes the last segment a dream. Also lol, doesn't fit the lore the game provides? The fact that Shepard never got indoctrinated by anything throughout the entire series doesn't fit the lore, Harbinger standing literally right over him would make it even more likely for him to be indoctrinated, but somehow, he never was. Such an ending would be pretty great in my opinion. [editline]9th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42810601]It's worse in pretty much every way but the main one being it basically turns the plot into a "but is was all a dream!" which is just fucking terrible. And no he didn't, any "signs" you see of him being indoctrinated are just you looking for anything possible to justify the horrible ending.[/QUOTE] No, the furthest reaching effects of the indoctrination effects are on the dreams with the kid, it doesn't make anything beyond the last 10 minutes a dream, and I fail to see how that is an issue anyway, one of the reaper's most important abilities is their ability to indoctrinate, it makes less sense that he was never indoctrinated even when Harbinger himself was standing over him.

[QUOTE=be;42813829]No the indoctrination theory makes a lot of sense, and no it doesn't make it all a dream, it just makes the last segment a dream. Also lol, doesn't fit the lore the game provides? The fact that Shepard never got indoctrinated by anything throughout the entire series doesn't fit the lore, Harbinger standing literally right over him would make it even more likely for him to be indoctrinated, but somehow, he never was. Such an ending would be pretty great in my opinion. [editline]9th November 2013[/editline] No, the furthest reaching effects of the indoctrination effects are on the dreams with the kid, it doesn't make anything beyond the last 10 minutes a dream, and I fail to see how that is an issue anyway, one of the reaper's most important abilities is their ability to indoctrinate, it makes less sense that he was never indoctrinated even when Harbinger himself was standing over him.[/QUOTE] It makes no sense and has been debunked countless times by countless people including BioWare themselves. The only way it makes sense is if you twist BioWares crappy writing to suit your needs. The whole thing is stupid as hell.

New Worlds? Don't forget about the orgasmic Uncharted Worlds music from ME1 by Sam Hulick: [video=youtube;Lpu5cTk_qvI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpu5cTk_qvI[/video] And the alternate second mix New Worlds from Mass Effect 2 by Jack Wall: [video=youtube;j1fJoBDP6Fo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1fJoBDP6Fo[/video]

But hey, if you wanna cling on to that little glimmer of hope that BioWare isn't as stupid as they actually are then go for it. You broke my merge you poopy head.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ5qPIcuMZA[/media] Why the Indoctrination theory is bad.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42813889]It makes no sense and has been debunked countless times by countless people including BioWare themselves. The only way it makes sense is if you twist BioWares crappy writing to suit your needs. The whole thing is stupid as hell.[/QUOTE] I dunno, makes sense to me. [editline]9th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42813902]But hey, if you wanna cling on to that little glimmer of hope that BioWare isn't as stupid as they actually are then go for it. You broke my merge you poopy head.[/QUOTE] I know that BioWare didn't intend for an indoctrination ending, I thought that the indoctrination theory brought up some good points and was definitely possible, and at least made sense in the lore. I'm not holding onto such a belief, but I do think that the IT was a possible way out for them, and I would've preferred if that was the route they went, if only so that we could of had more content. [editline]9th November 2013[/editline] And just as someone can analyze a scene/subject and get a certain conclusion (indoctrination theory), you can also get the opposite, without canonicity you can never know the answer, no matter what arguments you can make. What really matters is what they actually went along with, which clearly is not the IT.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42813889]It makes no sense and has been debunked countless times by countless people including BioWare themselves. The only way it makes sense is if you twist BioWares crappy writing to suit your needs. The whole thing is stupid as hell.[/QUOTE] Say what you want, but BioWare couldn't have confirmed the IT either. "Yeah you're right, the ending of ME3 is actually a dream and the long-awaited conclusion to the series is that we have no idea how it ends!" The truth is that BioWare was stuck with their bad ending when they released ME3, and they had no choice but to stick with it. The IT aims at uncovering what could be a "hidden" way to see the ending of ME3. The great thing with the IT though, is that it gives an explanation to minor and major events throughout ME3, from "that scene" mentioned earlier to Shepard's dreams, which still feel out of place without the IT. If you don't believe in the IT, you just believe those are the result of "crappy writing". That makes little sense, because then you only see what you want to see. You don't believe in the IT because you don't like what it implies, but you have no doubt regarding some bits of the game that those are only the result of bad writing, which happens to be metalinked only through the IT? That doesn't make much sense to me. [QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42813902]But hey, if you wanna cling on to that little glimmer of hope that BioWare isn't as stupid as they actually are then go for it. You broke my merge you poopy head.[/QUOTE] I am not a BioWare apologist, the ME3 ending is awful and that's all. But the IT is a lore-friendly, logical alternative for those disappointed by the ending. There is nothing stupid in believing in it, not any more than there is in believing the "real" ending.

[QUOTE=JustGman;42797072]Gunplay was better but they completely fucked up biotics when they added a huge global cooldown. It was kind of tolerable if you specced into lower cooldowns but it was nowhere near as fun as the unstoppable pain train that was the ME1 adept.[/QUOTE] Tbh it did kinda force you to use your squadmates a bit more to keep correctly landing combos. But me1 was mostly plagued by the unstoppable pistol wielding infiltrator machine that could murder anything that as much dared to move.

are there any mods for me1 that make it better

[QUOTE=Turing;42814279]are there any mods for me1 that make it better[/QUOTE] Yes. [URL="http://www.moddb.com/mods/mass-effect-1-new-texture-updatesimprovements-mod"]Texture improvement[/URL] (absolutely necessary, though I'm not sure this is the one I use) Other than that... I don't think so, but I'd love to know. [editline]10th November 2013[/editline] Which reminds me, I've totally forgotten this was a thing. [URL="http://www.moddb.com/mods/mehem-the-mass-effect-3-happy-ending-mod"]Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod[/URL] Opinions?

[QUOTE=Loadingue;42814201] The great thing with the IT though, is that it gives an explanation to minor and major events throughout ME3, from "that scene" mentioned earlier to Shepard's dreams, which still feel out of place without the IT. If you don't believe in the IT, you just believe those are the result of "crappy writing". [B]That makes little sense, because then you only see what you want to see.[/B] You don't believe in the IT because you don't like what it implies, but you have no doubt regarding some bits of the game that those are only the result of bad writing, which happens to be metalinked only through the IT? That doesn't make much sense to me.[/QUOTE] And people who defend this theory aren't doing the exact same thing? You guys are the ones drawing connections and excuses, and stuff based on shit that is the result of nothing but poor writing. everything in the game can be taken at face value because there is no hidden way of looking at anything in the game. I fail to see how me believing that crappy writing is indeed crappy writing makes less sense than believing in some half-cocked theory about mind control that people are pulling out of their ass just to make a bitter pill less bitter. I dunno why I'm still going on about this. It's like trying to tell a conspiracy theorist that 9/11 wasn't an inside job or that there are no aliens at Area 51.

[QUOTE=Loadingue;42814201]Say what you want, but BioWare couldn't have confirmed the IT either. "Yeah you're right, the ending of ME3 is actually a dream and the long-awaited conclusion to the series is that we have no idea how it ends!" The truth is that BioWare was stuck with their bad ending when they released ME3, and they had no choice but to stick with it. The IT aims at uncovering what could be a "hidden" way to see the ending of ME3. The great thing with the IT though, is that it gives an explanation to minor and major events throughout ME3, from "that scene" mentioned earlier to Shepard's dreams, which still feel out of place without the IT. If you don't believe in the IT, you just believe those are the result of "crappy writing". That makes little sense, because then you only see what you want to see. You don't believe in the IT because you don't like what it implies, but you have no doubt regarding some bits of the game that those are only the result of bad writing, which happens to be metalinked only through the IT? That doesn't make much sense to me. I am not a BioWare apologist, the ME3 ending is awful and that's all. But the IT is a lore-friendly, logical alternative for those disappointed by the ending. There is nothing stupid in believing in it, not any more than there is in believing the "real" ending.[/QUOTE] DUDE. TWO PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE STORY SAID IT IS BULLSHIT AND DOES NOT EXIST. ONE OF THEM SAID IT WITH CASEY HUDSON SITTING NEXT TO HIM. CASEY HUDSON NODDED. THE END.

[QUOTE=27X;42814838]DUDE. TWO PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE STORY SAID IT IS BULLSHIT AND DOES NOT EXIST. ONE OF THEM SAID IT WITH CASEY HUDSON SITTING NEXT TO HIM. CASEY HUDSON NODDED. THE END.[/QUOTE] I don't think they are claiming its real, they are claiming they accept it as their own head-canon.

No, one of them is saying such. Several others are saying "it can't be disproven cause ambiguity."

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42814831]And people who defend this theory aren't doing the exact same thing? You guys are the ones drawing connections and excuses, and stuff based on shit that is the result of nothing but poor writing. everything in the game can be taken at face value because there is no hidden way of looking at anything in the game. I fail to see how me believing that crappy writing is indeed crappy writing makes less sense than believing in some half-cocked theory about mind control that people are pulling out of their ass just to make a bitter pill less bitter. I dunno why I'm still going on about this. It's like trying to tell a conspiracy theorist that 9/11 wasn't an inside job or that there are no aliens at Area 51.[/QUOTE] Well it isn't about believing that Bioware meant for the "hints" in the ending to be proof of the IT, it was about analyzing what existed and finding ways in which they support the theory. It would've been a great idea in my opinion, but Bioware missed the opportunity and here we are. I find it no different from analyzing and interpreting literature, attempting to find some deep metaphor about curtains. Sure it isn't what the creators wanted, but things can be interpreted in different ways. In the end, Bioware fucked up (though I personally am alright with the endings, I understand that my views are the minority), and the IT has proven to be not true and nothing more than an analysis of the events of the game, and it seemed logically consistent to me, but as I said, in the end, Bioware fucked up. [editline]9th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=27X;42814838]DUDE. TWO PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE STORY SAID IT IS BULLSHIT AND DOES NOT EXIST. ONE OF THEM SAID IT WITH CASEY HUDSON SITTING NEXT TO HIM. CASEY HUDSON NODDED. THE END.[/QUOTE] I don't think either of us are claiming that the IT is true, it clearly isn't, I just think we're arguing that the IT was logically coherent and plausible. [editline]9th November 2013[/editline] To be honest, I don't think we even support the IT theory anymore, it's just that we support that it was logically plausible at the time given what we had at the time.

[QUOTE=Sir Drone;42807894]I always hated it was because of just that, what do they not care if organics destroy organics or synthetics destroy synthetics? hell these would of been...better then invisible wars ending -Reapers just kill all races once they pass a stage because many cycles ago everything reached a point or rather in their original time transformed into an Warhammer40k grimdark slaughterhouse full of unspeakable evil and the reapers decided this after countless other cycles of trial and error was the only final solution. - Reapers kill all space races because if they grow attracts attention of worse things in dark space that even the reapers see as a threat/cannot stop/ - Reapers just use them as food sources or do so for the sake of their survival aka Star Control route - Go with the fucking Dark Matter ending theory[/QUOTE] Imho the dark matter ending was utterly stupid because it made no sense at all in combination with mass effect 1 or 2. The best ending imho is - reapers use space races as a propagation method. They can't have little reapers without them,due to the way reapers are built. And just "growing" the individuals wouldn't work since reapers probably want to be made from a diverse and rich experienced lot.

I think the best ending was not to give the Reapers a logical motive, they were supposed to be things beyond our comprehension.