• Content Wars: Origin/Steam Scuffle Unfolds
    93 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;31042267]You need Origin/EADM for updates. That's how it is for Crysis 2, so I'm assuming this will be the problem with ME3 and BF3.[/QUOTE] Then launch Origin whenever there is a update.
[QUOTE=Populus89;30967677]Any competition is good for the costumer. Origin's UI at this state is horrible for me. Whenever I type in the activation code I'm scared shittless, since it tends to not give any "Success!" prompts, and you don't know if you unlocked a game until you restart it. Although you can start games without it running, so that's something it's better at. but: Haha oh wow.[/QUOTE] Yep, definately avoiding EA games from now on, they started getting better and being decent again, then they pull this. One year after purchase? Fuck that, I've had Half Life 2 Available to me anytime, anywhere, for seven fucking years.
Oh crap EA posted (and removed shortly thereafter) a list of digital retailers that will carry BF3, and guess what [URL=http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/07/10/battlefield-3-steam.aspx]Steam wasn't on it[/URL]
what the hell? (posted earlier) [quote]Origin guarantees download availability for at least one year after purchase. There is no limit to the number of times a game can be downloaded through the platform. When Origin retires a game, it can no longer be downloaded. As of June 2011, Origin has retired "around 10 games". According to EA's an account may be canceled after 24 months of non-use.[/quote] this is probably the reason why I lost Spore. it also had creepy and cute on it :(
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;31035057]Steam doesn't get the same offer from publishers that retailers get, obviously. Publishers don't want retailers to all go bankrupt, retailers have to have low prices to compete with steam, retailers get to buy the games for lower prices from publishers than steam does.[/QUOTE] So you are saying that the only reason Steam rips us off (in Europe) is because publishers are being nice to normal retailers and being mean to digital retailers. I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If digital retailing is the market that publishers make money from, they wouldn't care less about keeping normal retailers alive. They just want money. You actually think that publishers are keeping tangible retailers open by charging them less for stock than digital markets? Of course that is ridiculous. Amazon.co.uk and it's parent is one of the largest online companies in the world. They don't need "lower prices from publishers". I actually sent in a support ticket around a month or two ago to Steam to ask why they rip us off in the Eurozone. This is part of the reason they gave: [b]"We are always working with publishers to adjust prices to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops."[/b]. That is very odd since publishers apparently charge them much higher prices for stock according to you. How could they possibly work "to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops" if they are charged much higher prices?? Your claim has no evidence whatsoever and I don't see how you can believe it. Steam just rips us off out of pure greediness. As I've said before, why should they change if people still buy from them??? They shouldn't. But I don't see how you are unaware of their greediness. There is no moral reason for it.
[QUOTE=Caesar;31045724]So you are saying that the only reason Steam rips us off (in Europe) is because publishers are being nice to normal retailers and being mean to digital retailers. I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If digital retailing is the market that publishers make money from, they wouldn't care less about keeping normal retailers alive. They just want money. You actually think that publishers are keeping tangible retailers open by charging them less for stock than digital markets? Of course that is ridiculous. Amazon.co.uk and it's parent is one of the largest online companies in the world. They don't need "lower prices from publishers". I actually sent in a support ticket around a month or two ago to Steam to ask why they rip us off in the Eurozone. This is part of the reason they gave: [b]"We are always working with publishers to adjust prices to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops."[/b]. That is very odd since publishers apparently charge them much higher prices for stock according to you. How could they possibly work "to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops" if they are charged much higher prices?? Your claim has no evidence whatsoever and I don't see how you can believe it. Steam just rips us off out of pure greediness. As I've said before, why should they change if people still buy from them??? They shouldn't. But I don't see how you are unaware of their greediness. There is no moral reason for it.[/QUOTE] My claim has just as much evidence to back it up as yours, I just assume the best from Valve, you assume the worst. It is also ridiculous to say they rip us off in the eurozone, the games on steam cost just as much as the same game bought retail, full price, at launch. Steam just doesn't (or can't, we can't know which unless they tell us) lower the price as fast as retailers do.
[QUOTE=Caesar;31045724]So you are saying that the only reason Steam rips us off (in Europe) is because publishers are being nice to normal retailers and being mean to digital retailers. I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If digital retailing is the market that publishers make money from, they wouldn't care less about keeping normal retailers alive. They just want money. You actually think that publishers are keeping tangible retailers open by charging them less for stock than digital markets? Of course that is ridiculous. Amazon.co.uk and it's parent is one of the largest online companies in the world. They don't need "lower prices from publishers". I actually sent in a support ticket around a month or two ago to Steam to ask why they rip us off in the Eurozone. This is part of the reason they gave: [b]"We are always working with publishers to adjust prices to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops."[/b]. That is very odd since publishers apparently charge them much higher prices for stock according to you. How could they possibly work "to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops" if they are charged much higher prices?? Your claim has no evidence whatsoever and I don't see how you can believe it. Steam just rips us off out of pure greediness. As I've said before, why should they change if people still buy from them??? They shouldn't. But I don't see how you are unaware of their greediness. There is no moral reason for it.[/QUOTE] Retailers buy a set of physical copies for a set price. Any price above that is the store's choice for own profitable gain. Steam has infinite (unless there is a limited activation-key supply) copies they never bought in the first place. The prices are set by the publishers and Steam applies their own charge for distribution, servers to keep the games available and updateable and the DRM solution having it on Steam is. Publishers also see digital distribution to be a good step to cover up the losses from physical distribution (games that don't sell, are returned for being breaked, commercial expenses, over-production (leftovers that never got sold to stores), etc etc) and thus doesn't charge less for their digital costless copies, but more often than not, more. Now then, of course Steam also has their say on the price, but not fully, more like, how much they want to take of the cake. Steam also work on suggesting prices to the publishers, which is why there are so many sales on Steam, they convince them it's profitable. Steam could very well suggest higher prices as well as they see standard price ranges that sell well. Basically I don't think Steam is the one ripping us off, I think it's the publishers being cruel. With that said I also mentioned that Steam could have a finger in it, but not a whole hand. You also have to take into account that the income of the average American is not the exact same as the income of an average European (which is extremely varied).
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;31045845]My claim has just as much evidence to back it up as yours, I just assume the best from Valve, you assume the worst. It is also ridiculous to say they rip us off in the eurozone, the games on steam cost just as much as the same game bought retail, full price, at launch. Steam just doesn't (or can't, we can't know which unless they tell us) lower the price as fast as retailers do.[/QUOTE] No, sorry, your claim has pretty much no evidence. The very fact that [url=http://www.steamprices.com/eu/topripoffs]this website[/url] exists with so many obvious rip offs visible makes it clear that Steam rips us off in the Eurozone. They don't even convert the currencies properly. According to Steam, €1=$1. That is not the case in reality. It's also not just games that have recently been released that Steam overprices. Check any game that's been out for years and you will still find that Steam charges more for it than Amazon or ordinary retailers. You're right about Steam now lowering prices as fast as normal retailers anyway. Steam takes years to lower prices. Borderlands was released in 2009 and the GOTY is still 50 Euro on Steam, when it is [b]nine[/b] pounds on Amazon. (Roughly 11/12 Euro) And Steam doesn't price all games the same as other retailers at launch. I pre-ordered Shogun 2: Total War for 27 Pounds on Amazon, which is roughly 30 Euro. On Steam, for me to pre-order it, it would've cost me 50 Euro. That's quite a big difference. I don't assume the worst of Valve. I like Valve as a company, they make great games and they seem to interact well with their fans. I liked Steam too, I thought it was a great idea and convenient. I still do. But my fondness for them severely declined when they switched currencies to Euro from Dollars for us, but kept the same prices. By all means though, if you have enough money to spare to not even care that Steam charges so much more than other retailers, keep buying from Steam. I, however, will be buying from other retailers until Steam stops treating us Europeans like dirt.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;31045845]My claim has just as much evidence to back it up as yours, I just assume the best from Valve, you assume the worst. It is also ridiculous to say they rip us off in the eurozone, the games on steam cost just as much as the same game bought retail, full price, at launch. Steam just doesn't (or can't, we can't know which unless they tell us) lower the price as fast as retailers do.[/QUOTE] Are you just arguing for the sake of it? Anyway that looks at the steam store and compares it to Amazon can only laugh. For example the last day of the steam summer "sale" has Assassin's Creed Brotherhood for €24.99 whereas if you take a look on Amazon it's £14.69 which equals €16.60 euro. So if you were to buy the game today from Steam thinking you were getting a good deal you would actually have spent €10 MORE then you had to. How can you defend a company that does that? On another note. Steam has that game on sale, Tomorrow you will have to pay €50 for it.
[QUOTE=dgg;31048629]Retailers buy a set of physical copies for a set price. Any price above that is the store's choice for own profitable gain. Steam has infinite (unless there is a limited activation-key supply) copies they never bought in the first place. The prices are set by the publishers and Steam applies their own charge for distribution, servers to keep the games available and updateable and the DRM solution having it on Steam is. Publishers also see digital distribution to be a good step to cover up the losses from physical distribution (games that don't sell, are returned for being breaked, commercial expenses, over-production (leftovers that never got sold to stores), etc etc) and thus doesn't charge less for their digital costless copies, but more often than not, more. Now then, of course Steam also has their say on the price, but not fully, more like, how much they want to take of the cake. Steam also work on suggesting prices to the publishers, which is why there are so many sales on Steam, they convince them it's profitable. Steam could very well suggest higher prices as well as they see standard price ranges that sell well. Basically I don't think Steam is the one ripping us off, I think it's the publishers being cruel. With that said I also mentioned that Steam could have a finger in it, but not a whole hand. You also have to take into account that the income of the average American is not the exact same as the income of an average European (which is extremely varied).[/QUOTE] I do understand all of that, but it still doesn't excuse Steam. Yes, incomes vary from region to region, but why do they convert UK prices properly and not Euro prices properly then?? I also don't believe the argument that publishers just charge higher prices on Steam. It's extremely hard to fathom that all the publishers decided to band together and charge Europeans much higher prices than they do from normal retailers. It makes pretty much no sense. I'm sure Steam has quite a bit of input into the pricing. I know Steam has expenses like the ones you mention, but surely they have much less expenses than normal retailers do. As I mentioned before, they don't have any middlemen whatsoever. No deliverymen, no packaging, no factories involved. I do think that Steam is the one ripping us off. As I mentioned earlier, I asked them in a support ticket about it and they said "[B]We are always working with publishers to adjust prices to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops." [/B]I don't know about the rest of Europe, but for me, one of my "local retailers and online shops" is Amazon.co.uk. You can look up any game on Amazon and Steam and it'll be cheaper on Amazon. Even most of the "sale" games on Steam are cheaper on Amazon (which is its normal price, not sale). I think people just let Steam away with it because they're fond of Valve. Three of four years ago, Europeans were charged US dollars for games but then they switched us to Euro overnight, but kept the prices the exact same. One euro is equal to about 1.5 dollars so I've no idea how they justify it. Even the company itself wouldn't give me a proper answer when I sent in a support ticket. I was genuinely curious as to why they charge us so much more than normal retailers do and they gave me a waffle answer. If they had've said "Prices are higher in our European store because X and Y and Z" I would've just accepted it, but that isn't what they said. It's just one of my pet peeves that really gets me going, but to be honest I've just given up on buying games from Steam and just buy from Amazon now. I still use Steam but I just don't understand how they can keep those prices up. Surely I'm not the only one who buys elsewhere because of this?
A lot of things tend to be cheaper on online retailers like Amazon, not just games that are also on Steam. But then shipping and handling comes into play...
EA really cant compete with Steam, just look on this summer sale, steam not only made a huge sale but also made developers create new achievements only for that sale. No other digital distributor has made anything similar
[QUOTE=Caesar;31049039]I do think that Steam is the one ripping us off. As I mentioned earlier, I asked them in a support ticket about it and they said "[B]We are always working with publishers to adjust prices to be in line with what can be found at local retailers and online shops." [/B]I don't know about the rest of Europe, but for me, one of my "local retailers and online shops" is Amazon.co.uk. You can look up any game on Amazon and Steam and it'll be cheaper on Amazon. Even most of the "sale" games on Steam are cheaper on Amazon (which is its normal price, not sale). I think people just let Steam away with it because they're fond of Valve. Three of four years ago, Europeans were charged US dollars for games but then they switched us to Euro overnight, but kept the prices the exact same. One euro is equal to about 1.5 dollars so I've no idea how they justify it. Even the company itself wouldn't give me a proper answer when I sent in a support ticket. I was genuinely curious as to why they charge us so much more than normal retailers do and they gave me a waffle answer. If they had've said "Prices are higher in our European store because X and Y and Z" I would've just accepted it, but that isn't what they said. It's just one of my pet peeves that really gets me going, but to be honest I've just given up on buying games from Steam and just buy from Amazon now. I still use Steam but I just don't understand how they can keep those prices up. Surely I'm not the only one who buys elsewhere because of this?[/QUOTE] If I buy a game retail here in Norway it's usually about the same price as Steam, although it's usually a little bit lower. However I completely agree that the USD = EURO thing is complete bollocks and that they are ripping on us from somewhere. But on the other hand I've seen games on Steam that have adjusted the prices pretty well as well which is why I think it has a lot to do with the publishers as well.
[QUOTE=dgg;31050508]If I buy a game retail here in Norway it's usually about the same price as Steam, although it's usually a little bit lower. However I completely agree that the USD = EURO thing is complete bollocks and that they are ripping on us from somewhere. But on the other hand I've seen games on Steam that have adjusted the prices pretty well as well which is why I think it has a lot to do with the publishers as well.[/QUOTE] I didn't realise that about retailers in Norway (and possibly other countries too). I've just taken a look at several of the mainland European Amazon websites (.de, .fr etc.) and the prices do seem [b]slightly[/b] closer to Steam than amazon.co.uk's. Maybe I've just been spoiled by the particularly low prices of amazon.co.uk (which I can't figure out why the prices are so low on), I don't know. It just frustrates me to no end that we pay so much for games on Steam compared to other regions. Ultimately it doesn't really matter to me since there are other retailers out there I can buy games from. I just wish that Steam had more reasonable pricing for us.
[QUOTE=Caesar;31051065]I didn't realise that about retailers in Norway (and possibly other countries too). I've just taken a look at several of the mainland European Amazon websites (.de, .fr etc.) and the prices do seem [b]slightly[/b] closer to Steam than amazon.co.uk's. Maybe I've just been spoiled by the particularly low prices of amazon.co.uk (which I can't figure out why the prices are so low on), I don't know. It just frustrates me to no end that we pay so much for games on Steam compared to other regions. Ultimately it doesn't really matter to me since there are other retailers out there I can buy games from. I just wish that Steam had more reasonable pricing for us.[/QUOTE] It would have been nice to see the games priced more reasonably on the fact that they are digital copies indeed. but then again, that's not going to happen as long as they have physical copies out in the market that they have to advertize for, produce and design boxes for and ship and all that. You have indeed been spoiler well by amazon and there is of course no reason to stop being that either. Personally I don't mind spending a bit extra on games on Steam since I get them right away, don't have to worry about losing the CD or key and it keeps track of game time for me and has a nice achievements layout (for those few times I actually care about the achievements). I'm just glad I'm not Australian. They save loads of money on Steam.
I do feel sorry for the Australians. They seem to be ripped off everywhere. I do like Steam so I usually try to buy games from Amazon that register on Steam. It's a win-win really :v:
[QUOTE=Caesar;31052757]I do like Steam so I usually try to buy games from Amazon that register on Steam. It's a win-win really :v:[/QUOTE] Best of both worlds. What bothers me with buying outside of Steam is that it doesn't get a fancy backdrop picture, no achievements status nor time-played record. It's really simple stuff that doesn't really matter at fucking all but ruins the whole feeling when you browse through the games on Steam. It almost feels like you didn't purchase it.
[QUOTE=The golden;31050342]Implying that Origin can't have sales either. Maybe that's because no one has really tried. And those that do get shot down by people like you who think Valve's monopoly is a good thing.[/QUOTE] nobody really tried because most of other distributors doesnt have a platform at level of steamworks. EA cant compete with steam because steam already have a huge catalog and a great platform for gamers and developers. no monopoly is good, but to some other distributor compete at steam leve, they need to do alot more than sales
[QUOTE=C4rnage;31052977]nobody really tried because most of other distributors doesnt have a platform at level of steamworks. EA cant compete with steam because steam already have a huge catalog and a great platform for gamers and developers. no monopoly is good, but to some other distributor compete at steam leve, they need to do alot more than sales[/QUOTE] Are you seriously implying a new service would be just as good or better as Steam rigth at the start? Hahaha. No, that shit takes time to develope and improve. Few things starts out better than it's rival, they start the race late but speed up to beat the competiton.
I'm only going to use Origin for ME3 and only if i have too, i would prefer to have it on Steam because there's the rest of the series. If it can be avoided i will, i don't want more account names and passwords. As for Valve cutting off a game because a seperate DLC-payment system: ME2's DLC isn't via Steam and works fine.
I don't understand all of this (mostly prejudiced) hate towards Origin. I bet most people haven't even used it. I haven't either, but from what I've heard it's quite good. I'd be more than happy to try it in a few months once it gets fully started.
[QUOTE=Caesar;31052757]I do feel sorry for the Australians. They seem to be ripped off everywhere. I do like Steam so I usually try to buy games from Amazon that register on Steam. It's a win-win really :v:[/QUOTE] Yeah, Steam is pretty much the only service that has games cheaper than retail, but even now half the new games on Steam are upwards of $50 US, and retail is always 70$ or more, so it's bullshit for us too as Steam is pretty much the only service you can get games cheaper on, which is slowly changing. Don't companies realize that if your game isn't 100 fucking dollars I'm more inclined to buy it?
[QUOTE=dgg;31053400]Are you seriously implying a new service would be just as good or better as Steam rigth at the start? Hahaha. No, that shit takes time to develope and improve. Few things starts out better than it's rival, they start the race late but speed up to beat the competiton.[/QUOTE] no i didnt said that, where is bad reading when i need
Not sure why there's all the hate on Origin. It's not even out of beta and people are already saying it's crap and will get raped by Steam. Origin for me is simplistic and loads the EA Store faster for me than Steam loads the Steam Store. :/ I will be fine if you guys start hating on it after it's been out for a few months(final release, not the beta).
[QUOTE=Zet;31061391]Not sure why there's all the hate on Origin. It's not even out of beta and people are already saying it's crap and will get raped by Steam. Origin for me is simplistic and loads the EA Store faster for me than Steam loads the Steam Store. :/ I will be fine if you guys start hating on it after it's been out for a few months(final release, not the beta).[/QUOTE] Steam store loads faster than ea loads for me, its all just an opinion, but its true that EA is absolute dumb for doing what they did with origin.
[QUOTE=C4rnage;31061260]no i didnt said that, where is bad reading when i need[/QUOTE] You said: "EA cant compete with steam because steam already have a huge catalog and a great platform for gamers and developers." Origin is brand new and it will take time for them to get their own "huge cataolg". [QUOTE=Map in a box;31061407]Steam store loads faster than ea loads for me, its all just an opinion, but its true that EA is absolute dumb for doing what they did with origin.[/QUOTE] I don't understand how a company expanding and rebranding their store is dumb. I, for one, hope that Origin does well so that Steam finally has some decent competition.
[QUOTE=Caesar;31064513]You said: "EA cant compete with steam because steam already have a huge catalog and a great platform for gamers and developers." Origin is brand new and it will take time for them to get their own "huge cataolg".[/QUOTE] and they wont be at steam level, because they dont have a platform like steamworks/community/etcs, its really hard to understand that?
[QUOTE=C4rnage;31072328]and they wont be at steam level, because they dont have a platform like steamworks/community/etcs, its really hard to understand that?[/QUOTE] Rating everyone dumb that disagrees with you is just plain.. DUMB. Especially when you are so blatently wrong. You said that EA and Origin "cant compete with steam because steam already have a huge catalog and a great platform for gamers and developers". Then dgg said [quote]Are you seriously implying a new service would be just as good or better as Steam rigth at the start?[/quote]. You then proceeded to imply that he read your post badly. Now you are saying that you were originally referring to Steamworks and the Steam community (fair enough). Dgg's comment still applies to that 100%. Obviously "they wont be at steam level", because Origin simply can't and won't have everything at launch. They need to have time to develop and perfect their own things. Do you think Steam had everything perfect at their launch?? That is what we are saying. How can [b]you[/b] not understand that???
now tell me where i mentioned "launch" all i said is to someone compete with steam they need a platform good as steamworks/community. is really that hard, understand this? i rated dumb because you didnt understand what i meant, since we dont have bad reading anymore
"EA cant compete with steam because [b]steam already[/b] have a huge catalog and a great platform for gamers and developers." Implying that it doesn't matter what EA does, because Steam are already miles ahead. I'm bored of this circle we seem to be stuck in so I'll just agree that it was a communication problem and nobody's fault.
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