Oh fuck it, this is getting out of hand. Let me just state my point in entirety and let you guys rid it to shreds if you want.
I'm a customer, which means I get to choose what products I want to buy.
When a particular company produces several things that I enjoy, I will eagerly await the next thing they produce, because I can assume from prior experience that I will enjoy it.
Oh no! It would appear that this company has decided that it will change direction with this product. It doesn't please me, but it will probably please other customers. Maybe those customers will give the company money, which will ultimately fund the next product which I enjoy.
Wow, it would appear that this new product really is popular, and so the company is spending more time and effort on other products like it, rather than those that I enjoy.
Because of this, the company is now no longer producing products that I want to purchase.
I am now a disgruntled customer.
Credit to Valve for finding a niche in the market and making ludicrous amounts of money off it. Genuinely, I'm happy that they're succeeding.
What I'm not pleased about, however, is how DOTA appears to be taking precedence over other games. Sure, they're still working on TF2, but I'm not particularly bothered about that either. Maybe we could see a new HL, or a new L4D, or some new IP? But instead, we're getting new heroes.
I feel no ill will toward the devs for following the money, I don't expect them to try to please me specifically. However I reserve the right to complain when a company does something that I don't want them to.
I don't want the Xbox One to have always on Kinect. I'm able to protest that by not buying one.
I don't want my government to leave the EU. I'm able to protest that by not voting for those politicians.
I don't want Valve to focus on DOTA. I'm able to protest that by whining about it. I can't by not buying it, because it's free. In fact the only way I can make my voice heard, and let Valve (and the community at large) know that I'm not in favour of this, is by saying so.
It's the same feeling as being presented two scratch cards and told that there's a 50% chance that one of them will win you a billion pounds; you pick one and it's a dud. You're always going to be thinking, what if I'd picked the other one? Maybe I could be rolling in cash right now. Except that it isn't cash, its games that I want to play.
There, go for it.
In the movie biz we call that 'screening'.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40928522]Oh fuck it, this is getting out of hand. Let me just state my point in entirety and let you guys rid it to shreds if you want.
I'm a customer, which means I get to choose what products I want to buy.
When a particular company produces several things that I enjoy, I will eagerly await the next thing they produce, because I can assume from prior experience that I will enjoy it.
Oh no! It would appear that this company has decided that it will change direction with this product. It doesn't please me, but it will probably please other customers. Maybe those customers will give the company money, which will ultimately fund the next product which I enjoy.
Wow, it would appear that this new product really is popular, and so the company is spending more time and effort on other products like it, rather than those that I enjoy.
Because of this, the company is now no longer producing products that I want to purchase.
I am now a disgruntled customer.
Credit to Valve for finding a niche in the market and making ludicrous amounts of money off it. Genuinely, I'm happy that they're succeeding.
What I'm not pleased about, however, is how DOTA appears to be taking precedence over other games. Sure, they're still working on TF2, but I'm not particularly bothered about that either. Maybe we could see a new HL, or a new L4D, or some new IP? But instead, we're getting new heroes.
I feel no ill will toward the devs for following the money, I don't expect them to try to please me specifically. However I reserve the right to complain when a company does something that I don't want them to.
I don't want the Xbox One to have always on Kinect. I'm able to protest that by not buying one.
I don't want my government to leave the EU. I'm able to protest that by not voting for those politicians.
I don't want Valve to focus on DOTA. I'm able to protest that by whining about it. I can't by not buying it, because it's free. In fact the only way I can make my voice heard, and let Valve (and the community at large) know that I'm not in favour of this, is by saying so.
It's the same feeling as being presented two scratch cards and told that there's a 50% chance that one of them will win you a billion pounds; you pick one and it's a dud. You're always going to be thinking, what if I'd picked the other one? Maybe I could be rolling in cash right now. Except that it isn't cash, its games that I want to play.
There, go for it.[/QUOTE]
They aren't not working on other projects, DOTA 2 is just seeing a lot of public updates (because of the nature of the content). CS:GO for example mostly requires a fair bit of tooling about in Hammer to produce some new levels, which of course will take a while since new maps require a whole bunch of play testing and detail passes (and hammer sucks). TF2 is along the same lines as DOTA, as much of the updates revolve around new cosmetic items which don't require a whole lot of playtesting as they don't affect gameplay in a significant manner.
Just because DOTA 2 is getting more regular updates doesn't mean that they're ignoring everything else, it just means they're getting more updates out.
[QUOTE=danharibo;40928649]Just because DOTA 2 is getting more regular updates doesn't mean that they're ignoring everything else, it just means they're getting more updates out.[/QUOTE]
Also not to forget DOTA is still in beta. Most of the heroes don't have items in game currently, meaning that they have a lot of content to update with.
They keep forgetting to change the l4d2 mutation, so valve is dead to me
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40928209]Yes, I do want them to stop working on the most played game on steam.
What is so hard to understand about this? I know they won't, and I know other people are enjoying that game, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to be annoyed about a company spending resources on a product I'm not interested in.[/QUOTE]
you're retarded i'm sorry
are you annoyed by every game company for not making THE ULTIMATE VIDEOGAME THAT ONLY YOU WANT as well?
that's incredibly selfish and if you don't give a shit about a ton of people playing a game that you don't like doesn't mean you're entitled to anything
it's not about whether dota 2 is a good game or not but about the fact that you don't care about anyone else but yourself and only focused on your needs
wow valve developing a game thats in beta?????? wtf noobs
[QUOTE=Jericho_Rus;40929071]you're retarded i'm sorry
are you annoyed by every game company for not making THE ULTIMATE VIDEOGAME THAT ONLY YOU WANT as well?
that's incredibly selfish and if you don't give a shit about a ton of people playing a game that you don't like doesn't mean you're entitled to anything
it's not about whether dota 2 is a good game or not but about the fact that you don't care about anyone else but yourself and only focused on your needs
wow valve developing a game thats in beta?????? wtf noobs[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure you're actually serious.
Genuinely, I'm not seeing where the issue is. I'm not [B]expecting[/B] anyone to do anything for me, because that's stupid, and I'm no more or less important than anyone else on the planet.
I don't think it's selfish to think "Oh man, I wish they were making something I would enjoy, instead of something that someone else would enjoy", I think it's reasonable.
If I was given the ability, I'd shut DOTA 2 development down as soon as possible, in lieu of something else. I'm sure that all of you would do the same for one studio or another. Cancelling Halo 5 for a PC port of Halo 3, or something like that.
Dota 2 is strange, it's the most played game on steam but I rarely hear anyone talk about it outside the game's thread on pretty much every forum I go to :pwn:
[QUOTE=PirateMax;40928145]Haha so u want them to stop working on the most played game on steam, a game that sometimes has more active players than all games in the Steam top 100 combined? (pic is of today)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/v1WevTe.png[/IMG]
You do realize Valve is a company, and it has to make profit? Valve is still working on other projects, Steam Trading cards was just released, and they added VR support for Team Fortress 2 and Half-Life 2 very recently. They are probably working on a VR project. I mean did you even read Michael Abrash's blog posts? [URL]http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/author/mabrash/[/URL]
So yeah to sum it up you are complaining Valve has only posted about Dota2 this year, that means you missed:
TF2 VR support
HL2 VR support
Steam Trading Cards
TF2 Electric Boogaloo[/QUOTE]
Honestly there's not even many people who use VR right now and the support for it is kind of a waste of time at this moment. Steam Trading Cards is a joke and the Robotic update is completely community driven.
So no, Valve hasn't been publicly doing much with anything other than Dota 2. Source 2 is private and I'm sure a lot of effort is going in to making it great.
[QUOTE=redBadger;40929391]Honestly there's not even many people who use VR right now and the support for it is kind of a waste of time at this moment. Steam Trading Cards is a joke and the Robotic update is completely community driven.
So no, Valve hasn't been publicly doing much with anything other than Dota 2. Source 2 is private and I'm sure a lot of effort is going in to making it great.[/QUOTE]
How is supporting VR a waste of time? If game devs lived by that logic we'd still be playing Pong because nobody plays games with actual mechanics; so they're just a waste of time.
The point of supporting it is to get people to buy Virtual Reality sets and then buy VR supported games. By stepping into the market early they also get a chance of developing their own hardware if they see profit in it. If they do intend to make VR sets their games will already have support for it. It's a win-win scenario for everyone.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40929290]
I don't think it's selfish to think "Oh man, I wish they were making something I would enjoy, instead of something that someone else would enjoy", I think it's reasonable.
[/QUOTE]
lol
it's reasonable for an entire dev studio to work on needs of 1 instead of >300k people
ok
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40929290]
If I was given the ability, I'd shut DOTA 2 development down as soon as possible, in lieu of something else. I'm sure that all of you would do the same for one studio or another. Cancelling Halo 5 for a PC port of Halo 3, or something like that.[/QUOTE]
also great business skills there seeing as how you would shut down a game that is so far into development and is the most popular one despite it being still in beta
not like money or fans are important
Quit expecting EP3/HL3 to happen.
Just forget about it for now, be all the happier when it eventually arrives and meanwhile try to appreciate all the other great initiatives Valve is taking to make people happy.
i'm sad when i remember that next year is half-life 2's tenth year anniversary, it's funny how episode 2 ended in a cliffhanger still
I think this hasn't been mentioned yet, but why would Valve stop working on a game that's not even finished yet.
I mean, it doesn't even have all the heroes from Dota 1 yet and you want them to stop caring about the game ?
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40928522]Oh fuck it, this is getting out of hand. Let me just state my point in entirety and let you guys rid it to shreds if you want.
I'm a customer, which means I get to choose what products I want to buy.
When a particular company produces several things that I enjoy, I will eagerly await the next thing they produce, because I can assume from prior experience that I will enjoy it.
Oh no! It would appear that this company has decided that it will change direction with this product. It doesn't please me, but it will probably please other customers. Maybe those customers will give the company money, which will ultimately fund the next product which I enjoy.
Wow, it would appear that this new product really is popular, and so the company is spending more time and effort on other products like it, rather than those that I enjoy.
Because of this, the company is now no longer producing products that I want to purchase.
I am now a disgruntled customer.
Credit to Valve for finding a niche in the market and making ludicrous amounts of money off it. Genuinely, I'm happy that they're succeeding.
What I'm not pleased about, however, is how DOTA appears to be taking precedence over other games. Sure, they're still working on TF2, but I'm not particularly bothered about that either. Maybe we could see a new HL, or a new L4D, or some new IP? But instead, we're getting new heroes.
I feel no ill will toward the devs for following the money, I don't expect them to try to please me specifically. However I reserve the right to complain when a company does something that I don't want them to.
I don't want the Xbox One to have always on Kinect. I'm able to protest that by not buying one.
I don't want my government to leave the EU. I'm able to protest that by not voting for those politicians.
I don't want Valve to focus on DOTA. I'm able to protest that by whining about it. I can't by not buying it, because it's free. In fact the only way I can make my voice heard, and let Valve (and the community at large) know that I'm not in favour of this, is by saying so.
It's the same feeling as being presented two scratch cards and told that there's a 50% chance that one of them will win you a billion pounds; you pick one and it's a dud. You're always going to be thinking, what if I'd picked the other one? Maybe I could be rolling in cash right now. Except that it isn't cash, its games that I want to play.
There, go for it.[/QUOTE]
Hence why nobody is shoving products you do not want down your throat. How is that hard to understand? What's so hard about having the mindset of "I don't like it, therefor, I don't buy it" ?
I don't think you quite understand how Valve works either.
For starters, there are multiple teams for each project. Dota 2 team + icefrog, TF2 team, Steam team, Half-life team, and so on. They don't grab a handful of people out of one project and stick them into another, and on top of that, everyone works where they want to work on.
Besides, if we don't get news about HL3, its because there are no news about HL3, and that doesn't necessarily mean they stopped messing with it. At this point, we shouldn't even bat an eye and wonder if its in development, because goddamnit, you know bloody well it is. They wouldn't let their most valuable franchise without a grand earthshaking finale. This just means they want to pull all the stops, and most likely (because if I remember correctly, someone mentioned a new engine being also in development) show the world something amazing, and repeat the achivement that HL2 was.
I am sick and tired of people constantly crying and whining about how Valve doesn't says anything about HL3. I like the jokes, like the Yu-Gabe-Oh video and so on, but everything else depicted as more negative remarks towards them is just childish and futile.
It's done when its done for fuck sakes....
If you don't like Dota, then you're welcome to getting the hell out of Dota threads and/or never ever look at anything remotely related to the game. Nobody stops you from doing so, and nobody forces you to do the opposite. You also shouldn't expect no company to bend over to your wishes and do exactly as you please. All you're showing is your selfish ego.
[editline]7th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40929290]I'm not sure you're actually serious.
Genuinely, I'm not seeing where the issue is. I'm not [B]expecting[/B] anyone to do anything for me, because that's stupid, and I'm no more or less important than anyone else on the planet.
I don't think it's selfish to think "Oh man, I wish they were making something I would enjoy, instead of something that someone else would enjoy", I think it's reasonable.
If I was given the ability, I'd shut DOTA 2 development down as soon as possible, in lieu of something else. I'm sure that all of you would do the same for one studio or another. Cancelling Halo 5 for a PC port of Halo 3, or something like that.[/QUOTE]
The issue is that you are being the most selfish person ever.
How do you not see that you basically want everyone to bend to your will?
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40928522]I'm a customer, which means I get to choose what products I want to buy.[/QUOTE]
You're right. You are a customer. Not a developer. You choose what product you want to buy. Not what product a developer creates. You get to choose what products you want to buy. Don't like it? Don't buy it. You said it yourself, you got a choice, make that choice.
Also: blaming a company for making a different product then [i]you[/i] buying it without prior knowledge and completely based off assumptions is idiotic, no matter what the company and what the product. You making assumptions about their next product is your problem. Not theirs. So stop being so whiny and get over it.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40927873]As much as I love Valve, every time I hear about them doing something regard DOTA 2, and not [i]literally anything else[/i] I lose a tiny bit of faith in them.
I would take a non-ironic Ricochet 2 at this point. I just want them to stop with the DOTA.[/QUOTE]
Fuck Valve. It's like they started a business, and now they want to increase it's value. Assholes.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;40927994]I wasn't aware that I wasn't allowed to criticism people doing things that I don't want them to. They're under obligation to stop because I specifically want them to, I just wish they would.
I know that people work on what they want to work on, which is what bothers me. The fact that DOTA is so popular makes me feel as though a large percentage of devs are going to, or have already, jumped from a project that I want to see, to it.
I know it seems a bit childish "oh no, stop doing what I don't want you to do!", but I am allowed an opinion on what I think they should be spending their time on; as you are.
[editline]6th June 2013[/editline]
I didn't even say DOTA was bad, I just said I wish they'd stop work on it, and put that effort into something else.
I don't even own the game.[/QUOTE]
You do realize Valve has multiple teams going on at the same time?
You do realize Portal 2, CS:GO and Dota 2 were all being made at the same time, with the majority of Valve helping on Portal 2.
Now Dota 2 is the immediate focus we see, especially since TI3 is coming very soon, and dont forget that they ARE working on Source 2 and HL3.
Its not like everyone is just working on Dota 2 and nothing else is getting done, its just there new big multiplayer game which just happens to be like 3 months away from Valves huge fucking tourney.
dota style games are shit
DOTA and related MOBAs attract too many low-quality players to them. It's like flies going to shit. I honestly don't see the appeal outside of environments where you know everyone on each team, playing pub games just seems like an easy way for someone to grief you (either intentionally or not) the entire match.
[QUOTE=popbob;40932779]DOTA and related MOBAs attract too many low-quality players to them. It's like flies going to shit. I honestly don't see the appeal outside of environments where you know everyone on each team, playing pub games just seems like an easy way for someone to grief you (either intentionally or not) the entire match.[/QUOTE]
why play any multiplayer game then
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;40932847]why play any multiplayer game then[/QUOTE]
Because mostly multiplayer games don't require the level of teamwork dota does to actually play the game. DOTA requires teamwork all of the time, or else it all falls apart. I've never been able to actually sit down and play the damn game because every person that does play it expects the world of you and explains nothing. It isn't fun to me, and I'm sure it's the same for many others.
[QUOTE=popbob;40932861]Because mostly multiplayer games don't require the level of teamwork dota does to actually play the game. DOTA requires teamwork all of the time, or else it all falls apart. I've never been able to actually sit down and play the damn game because every person that does play it expects the world of you and explains nothing. It isn't fun to me, and I'm sure it's the same for many others.[/QUOTE]
Play with friends idiot. Besides, Valve has integrated a ridiculous amount of systems to keep same skilled players together, and to punish abusive players.
And anyway that's like saying L4D and L4D2 are failures because if you get someone who runs ahead of the entire group and dies, your team falls apart and the game is shit never buy four player coop games the entire genre is flawed.
Dota 2 team =/= Most of Valve's Dev Team.
What most people don't seem to understand is, that it doesn't take 300 devs to create/work those things that where listed by one of the users here (Dota 2 heroes, TF2 Support, Trading cards).
Of course they work on other projects too. I never understand how people can actually believe that Valve is wasting their time. It seems like people believe that Valve is just a bunch of babys who don't know how to develop stuff.
Valve invests so much in RnD that's mostly private that's why valve seems so quiet and unproductive.
This documentary thread has turned into a valve fanboyism vs valve nonfanboyism since the first post. Can't we all just get along?
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