Former Blizzard dev: World of Warcraft killed the MMO genre - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Period;41269739]I wouldn't go as far as saying WoW killed the genre, maybe hurt though. Eve Online did pretty well with accessibility imo, old players have a very good advantage, but new players can still jump right into the game. A newbie can join a corp and be ratting or pvping in groups in lowsec within a week, maybe less.[/QUOTE] eve is not an accessible game at all. the average person who plays games would never play past a few hours in eve

[QUOTE=FPSMango;41272191]Reasons who vanilla WoW was twenty-times better than current WoW: No 40% xp increase heirloom-gear. No teleporting matchmaking that meant you could go through the whole game without actually seeing the game-world. Dungeons in low-level weren't "press follow on heirloom-gear guy and AFK while he solo the whole thing". No 5x out-of-combat regen until level 20. Questing in low-levels was actually challenging. Getting to level 60 was an achievement and the pros did it in 24 hours of game-time, now you can do 1-60 in a couple hours with minimal effort. [/QUOTE] yeah thats all nice but the content stops being fun on your third or forth play-through theres no point to playing the game until you hit level cap, leveling is just a chore so you can get to the end-content, its been like that since vanilla wow and if you disagree then you never really played vanilla wow at its best and are you kidding me, without LFR or dungeon finder it would take hours to organize a single group, meaning no-one would ever get geared and see the content that actually matters in wow [editline]1st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SteakStyles;41273132] The other side is World Of Warcraft. Its overly streamlined. You very rarely wonder where to go next. You don't know how to feel because yeah, you took down a big boss, but its because you followed a step by step video you saw somewhere on how to do so[/QUOTE] its obvious you've never actually played

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;41273268]eve is not an accessible game at all. the average person who plays games would never play past a few hours in eve[/QUOTE] Really? I finished the tutorials and joined a corp in just a few days. I guess my experience was different then normal.

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;41271689]According to the devs, the vampires don't sparkle, and "Edward" and "Bella" are illegal names.[/QUOTE]Not so much sparkle as spontaneously combust. :v:

For some reason, mmo's seem to have trouble to be entertaining outside of the MMO experience. Non existing story, boring+repetitive gameplay, poor interaction, seem to pretty accurately describe 95% of the MMO's ever made. Most MMO's have kinda reached MW kinda of status, where they are like "Guys!!! We took WoW and we added DOGS! Pls play/buy our game", instead if actual innovation.

Hope Wildstar does well, that game's shaping up to be fantastic.

[QUOTE=ironman17;41271787]You, uh, you what now? Oh wait, I assume you meant played like mad for the free 30 days offered to you. Well that's a relief. Personally I played for just under 6 months before I got bored; one thing I used to do was explore and run all the way from the starting point to the highest-tier zone possible, like running all the way to the Dark Portal with a level 1 character. In terms of actually playing the game, though, my main was a Dwarven Hunter, and I got past the Level 40 mark before I quit.[/QUOTE] "Fucked the dog" or "Screwed the pooch" is a figure of speech in the US, mostly in the south.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41273604]"Fucked the dog" or "Screwed the pooch" is a figure of speech in the US, mostly in the south.[/QUOTE] Must be pretty south since I live in Kentucky and I can't ever recall hearing it.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41273648]Must be pretty south since I live in Kentucky and I can't ever recall hearing it.[/QUOTE] Apparently it became a thing in the 70's and 80's because of Tom Wolfe's [I]The Right Stuff[/I], and is based off of a military euphemism. The reason why I said it's from the south is 'cause my southern teacher from school used to say it once in a while.

[QUOTE=Vulture Culture;41270289]There is a simple test to see if he is right. If ten years from now no one is playing MMOs, then we have a winner. Same thing happened with shooters(real shooters with space ships not run and guns), 2D platformers, and fighters. But all is not lost; in another decade they shall return in even greater glory. :smile:[/QUOTE] imho what he says is a bit different as far as I see it. he said that wow killed the oldschool MMO, utterly crushed it.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;41273218]I said that because I think the game looks very unimpressive.[/QUOTE] You know, just because it has vampires in it doesn't mean it's a total wright off as "Twilight the MMO". I personally would need a more valid criticism than that. Based on other comments in this thread it seems more like Vampire: The Masquerade: The MMO. Exactly what about it is "unimpressive" beyond the fact that it has vampires in it and Twilight took a big shit on vampires. I'm genuinely curious as this is the first I've even heard of the game.

"Developer of MMO that is competing with WoW: World of Warcraft killed the MMO genre" Ladies and gentlemen, marketing. [editline]1st July 2013[/editline] Also firefall is p shit and his statement about it should be ~about the journey~ is pretty laughable considering the only thing to do in firefall is a days worth of questing followed by farming crafting materials.

You have to admit it's really hard to create an MMO without people comparing it to WoW, unless it's an entirely different sub-genre than WoW is.

I think you could better argue that it killed of the [I]varied[/I] MMO, because ever since nearly every MMO has tried to be WoW, making the ones that don't like EVE shine all the brighter, and the aforementioned ones crash and burn because people will just play WoW if they want to.

MMO developers lack the ability to innovate, I hope we move more towards Plametside style mmos, they are far more enjoyable.

[QUOTE=Keychain;41273819]You have to admit it's really hard to create an MMO without people comparing it to WoW, unless it's an entirely different sub-genre than WoW is.[/QUOTE] Actually it's incredibly easy, people just don't buy those games. The mindset is that WoW killed the sandbox genre when sandbox games are still coming out. People just don't want to play them. EVE is doing well but still less than a million subscribers after all these years, and games like Darkfall and Mortal Online never get above the tens of thousands at launch then rather quickly fade away. Meanwhile games like Rift, Guild Wars 2, and SWTOR, themepark MMO's built off the proven WoW formula, sell like hotcakes. If sandbox MMO's are the holy grail of gaming I have to wonder why they seem to be so unpopoular other than That Space Game.

To be fair if Rift sold like hotcakes it probably wouldn't have gone free to play, same with others like Tera. Guild Wars 2 is definitely selling like hotcakes though because it's one of the few MMO's that's pay once and then manages to be different enough from WoW to make buying it feel justified. However your point remains valid seeing as how Guild Wars 2 is a shining example of how to make a good MMO.

My dad absolutely [b]despises[/b] World of Warcraft. My parents are both avid MMO players; they always play games together. They bought Everquest the day it was first released. I remember being six years old and sitting on my mum's lap as they played Everquest. Every time my dad starts talking about a new MMO, he always ends up going back to how WoW killed the genre. For the precise reasons that the article states: levels are arbitrary; quests hold your hand from beginning to end; and if you ever require putting an iota of thought into something, a patch will come out to fix that. The one thing my dad wishes MMOs would do again, more than anything, is to make quests completely unmarked, like in EverQuest. You have to actually walk around and talk to unmarked NPCs to get quests, there is no magical "quest log" detailing what you have to do, and you have to actually pay attention to the world and the NPCs you talk to in order to figure out where to turn the quests in. I think my dad will be glad to hear he's not the only person to feel that way about MMOs. :v:

I hope TES:O is very non WoW I got bored on my trial account on WoW and speed hacked so they banned me for 72 hours saying my account may have been compromised... I really wish they banned me forever instead.

[QUOTE=Keychain;41273925] However your point remains valid seeing as how Guild Wars 2 is a shining example of how to make a good MMO.[/QUOTE] If it required a subscription fee it would be dead in the water because there really isn't anything to do in terms of endgame. It just has a shitload of leveling content, most of which is pretty boring. Also Rift did sell like hotcakes. It went F2P 3 years later but it actually had over one million subscribers at one point. Compared to games like Mortal, Darkfall, SWG, and even EVE it was quite successful. [editline]1st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod4ever;41273937] and if you ever require putting an iota of thought into something, a patch will come out to fix that.[/QUOTE] I wonder if the people who say this even know about the hardcore raiding community. Content in TBC was harder than anything Everquest 1 or 2 ever had.

Oh I missed this part of the article [QUOTE] But he is speaking to what many fans of the old-school MMO scene--and even vanilla WoW--have lamented for some time, that there is no challenge any more.[/QUOTE] This is just bad reporting. Content from TBC on was objectively more difficult than vanilla. [editline]1st July 2013[/editline] The leaders of the #1 and #2 raiding guilds in the world were both interviewed at the same time and acknowledged that heroic lich king (last fight of Wrath) was the hardest fight WoW has ever had, and I think Heroic Ragnaros in Cataclysm was considered even more difficult. Why do people ignore heroic raiding when they talk about how easy WoW supposedly is? It's like beating a game on easy or normal difficulty and complaining about how easy that is.

vanila wow was soo good i loved needing useless shit to use my spells and having half of my talents be useless

[QUOTE=thisispain;41274268]vanila wow was soo good i loved needing useless shit to use my spells and having half of my talents be useless[/QUOTE] People hate grinding yet vanilla WoW was one of the grindiest eras in WoW history. Makes no sense.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41274346]People hate grinding yet vanilla WoW was one of the grindiest eras in WoW history. Makes no sense.[/QUOTE] The MMO community constantly contradicts itself. People ask for Vanilla WoW back, yet the complain when things get to grindy. Also anyone who thinks WoW killed the MMO doesn't understand the industry. WoW didn't kill the MMO, everyone making trying to recreate WoW and not reinvent it did.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41273648]Must be pretty south since I live in Kentucky and I can't ever recall hearing it.[/QUOTE] Really? I'm in Washington(PNW tyvm) and I hear it all the time.

[QUOTE=Fangz;41274372]The MMO community constantly contradicts itself. People ask for Vanilla WoW back, yet the complain when things get to grindy. Also anyone who thinks WoW killed the MMO doesn't understand the industry. WoW didn't kill the MMO, everyone making trying to recreate WoW and not reinvent it did.[/QUOTE] The reason why people complain when things get too grindy is because blizzard already spoiled their consumer base with the ability to get to 0 to max level in a day. Back in the day I never thought the game was too grindy. I never expected to get to max level in a day. I never thought about the end game. I just played day to day exploring the world and doing mid level quests with my friends. Granted, it took me like probably half a year to get to level 60, but damn I was so proud. Even the little things, like trying to form a group through chat or walking around the town trying to find people to do a quest/instance was interesting. And by the time you finished the instance you actually felt like you accomplished something. I remember having to save up to buy a mount, and I don't remember getting my epic mound until ages and ages after I hit 60. Blizzard went into a small conference room and talked about what makes players like world of warcraft. They figured it was accomplishing things. So they seam-lined it so you can accomplish 20x more things! You liked the feeling of getting a mount? No problem! You can get it at level 5 (or whatever) now! Want to do an instance? Just click a button and boom there you are in a full group. People will say "Well they did that for convenience". What's the point of convenience in a game? There's so much convenience that the game is a hollow shell of what it once was. Blizzard replaced actual long term achievement, with instant satisfaction.

[QUOTE=Period;41273371]Really? I finished the tutorials and joined a corp in just a few days. I guess my experience was different then normal.[/QUOTE] well i mean i did pretty much the same but the normal "gamer" wont. eve is a particularly bad example of an accessible game and has notoriety for having a high learning curve.

what an incredibly dumb thing to say, WoW did a lot of things right it didn't kill the genre, it added to it just because so many shitty developers keep trying to shit out MMOs in an attempt to be the next "WoW" that have zero effort put into them, doesn't mean WoW killed the genre first of all the genre isn't dead, but yes it is hurt, not by WoW, but by all the horrible "MMOs" that shitty developers keep shitting out to make as much money as possible this developer is saying it to try and make his own game look good, simple as that and Firefall may be a decent game but it's not some amazing bastion of the MMO genre of course you're going to have the idiots who want to hate on WoW just because it's popular, or because Blizzard made a change they didn't like WoW was a really great game that set some good standards, blaming the game for other shitty developers trying to copy it is incredibly silly and i love how this guy starts off by saying "why are there 5 man dungeons instead of 40 man raids!?!?" when every recent MMO has been going for huge open world bosses that attract many players, guild wars 2, defiance, rift, (i think star wars has some don't quote me on that), wildstar, and there are quite a few others so what "MMOs" is he talking about exactly? it's easy to look back and remember the "good ol' days" but sometimes change is necessary, while Everquest and Ultima were good MMOs in their time, they ha d mechanics that just weren't fun and were often times frustrating if there was enough demand for a hardcore MMO experience then there would be many of them, but there isn't, and getting mad at developers and throwing blame around for the lack of demand is extremely childish he praises Firefall so highly, well he's a dev of course he will, but Firefall isn't nearly as amazing as he makes it out to be you run out of content to do quickly, leveling and crafting feel like a giant grind, and after 4-5 hours in the game the only thing you'll be doing is sitting at a thumper shooting the same enemies over and over until you have enough resources to craft the next thing that will help you take on a more difficult thumper it's not different from the typical idea of an MMO, it's just a different presentation, and as for how difficult it is, not very it handles like a regular TPS and if you're half decent at any TPS you'll ace through everything, the only challenge of the game comes during events where enemies do high damage and they spawn in large groups and you have no one to do it with because there's ~20 people on and the "quests" in firefall are just randomly spawning missions where you either shoot 50 bugs, shoot 50 chosen, shoot 50 bandits, or pick up a few items while shooting 50 of any of them

Sometimes i get all nostalgic over my time in WoW. It's a totally different game now, but the thing i miss the most is the people I played with. I had my fun with it, still semi-excited to hear about Titan

I miss when Asheron's Call was still popular and didn't get bastardized. The PvP in that game was amazing.