BioWare’s Heir On Sexism, Racism, Homophobia In Games - Sensationalist Headlines

Hell, racism and sexism (and to an extent, homophobia) is an incredible tool in RPG's. It [I]really[/I] helps to colour characters and give them more depth. Imagine the following: some rich bloke has been offering your character a solution to a problem. On the other hand he appears to be stuck-up and he seem to hate any race that isn't human. You can solve the problem without his help. It will be a lot more difficult without it, and you might miss out on a fat bonus. But your best companion is a dwarf and is taking offence. The Witcher series did this great. Either you had to side with the blantant racists of the Flaming Rose or Blue Stripes, or you go with the deluded group of terrorists that is the scoia'tael.

bioware is behind some the most one dimensional and offensive homosexual characters in recent memory, what in the hell are they talking about and that's not even approaching how the one black party character they have fucking cheats on you, that sure was a progressive character huh like I seriously have no fucking clue what the metric being applied here is. do the actual characters even matter, or do they just have to be gay and not ever have that impact them negatively? [editline]28th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kazumi;44375567]Hell, racism and sexism (and to an extent, homophobia) is an incredible tool in RPG's. It [I]really[/I] helps to colour characters and give them more depth. Imagine the following: some rich bloke has been offering your character a solution to a problem. On the other hand he appears to be stuck-up and he seem to hate any race that isn't human. You can solve the problem without his help. It will be a lot more difficult without it, and you might miss out on a fat bonus. But your best companion is a dwarf and is taking offence. The Witcher series did this great. Either you had to side with the blantant racists of the Flaming Rose or Blue Stripes, or you go with the deluded group of terrorists that is the scoia'tael.[/QUOTE] it's like the world is complicated and sometimes a devotion to specific morals will force you to compromise in terms of practicality or even keep you from doing anything at all strange, that situation sounds familiar

-im late-

I love how BioWare continually spout all this bullshit about how they're progressive and accepting and then every gay or female character in their games is essentially a sack of meat that dresses skimpily and says "hello protagonist please do the fuck with me" That and there's always a painfully clear "good" choice. And that choice always leads to the best solution where everyone is happy and nothing goes wrong. You know, because it's like that in the real world. Adhering to strict morality is always really easy and there's never any reason to do otherwise, right?

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;44375403]One of the big flaws with Avellone is that he violently disagrees with some of the themes in Fallout and will do anything to get rid of them. He seems to dislike the concept of the wasteland recovering and flourishing over the years and would rather have a world where any vestige of kindness is cruelly crushed by the inherent savagery of humanity. The Fallout bible literally existed to undo every optimistic thing in Fallout 2 and Lonesome Road was his last ditch attempt to screw the Mojave over by introducing the tunnelers, implying that they will eventually kill [i]everyone[/i]. Had it not been for the other writers, I would have imagined the guy would have gone full on George Lucas.[/QUOTE] I don't see what's necessarily wrong with that though the world of fallout IS brutal and unforgiving, and people ARE savage and ruthless under those conditions like, that's just a historical thing. Caesar's Legion wasn't really that far removed from it's namesake, and that was one of the most sprawling and wealthy empires in history.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;44375111]I still cannot understand why games get banned left and right when it contains nudity or sexuality, back in the days games were known for things young kids play in their free time so there is some sense there. But that was back in 2003... Same thing for any other 'shocking' subject, if someone wants to make a deep evolving world then they should be free to add whatever they desire and having things as homophobia in a game (storywise) it would be a frightening plot element. If you look at the modern games it is always the 'evil person/company with the their evil agenda of doom which will destroy the world! oooo!' in one way or another. Look at Mortal Kombat 9 for fucks sake. pictures[/QUOTE] It just reflects society really. Violence is fine and accepted as the basis of many institutions but the second someone starts naked and running around we're all going to hell or something.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44375722]I don't see what's necessarily wrong with that though the world of fallout IS brutal and unforgiving, and people ARE savage and ruthless under those conditions like, that's just a historical thing. Caesar's Legion wasn't really that far removed from it's namesake, and that was one of the most sprawling and wealthy empires in history.[/QUOTE] What's wrong with it is there's no progress. It's the same problem with WH40K, if everything is shit all the time then for a lot of people it become boring very quickly. For me the appeal of Fallout was always how people were slowly rebuilding, making a new civilisation on top of the old, with the new civilisation being a response and a mirror to the old one. I mean if the appeal of Fallout to you is the shitty bits where everyone has nothing why not make a game set in the time between Fallout and Fallout 2? Or set it in a part of the country where things weren't as good, hell set it in Arizona and see how the Legion's regressionist policies have driven their civilisation. Don't just go "Oh now there's Tunnellers which are scarier than deathclaws and will probably kill everyone." There's room for both the good and the bad in Fallout, just having one will quickly make things boring. That's also why I go independent or side with House in New Vegas. I'd rather see many factions of various sizes working on conflicting goals.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44375818]What's wrong with it is there's no progress. It's the same problem with WH40K, if everything is shit all the time then for a lot of people it become boring very quickly. For me the appeal of Fallout was always how people were slowly rebuilding, making a new civilisation on top of the old, with the new civilisation being a response and a mirror to the old one. I mean if the appeal of Fallout to you is the shitty bits where everyone has nothing why not make a game set in the time between Fallout and Fallout 2? Or set it in a part of the country where things weren't as good, hell set it in Arizona and see how the Legion's regressionist policies have driven their civilisation. Don't just go "Oh now there's Tunnellers which are scarier than deathclaws and will probably kill everyone." There's room for both the good and the bad in Fallout, just having one will quickly make things boring. That's also why I go independent or side with House in New Vegas. I'd rather see many factions of various sizes working on conflicting goals.[/QUOTE] There have always been looming threats in the Fallout 'verse. The survival of humanity has been called into questions on multiple occasions, both in the games and in the lore. That just comes with the territory. And as far as I remember there was plenty of 'good' in New Vegas, so take that for what it's worth.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44375916]There have always been looming threats in the Fallout 'verse. The survival of humanity has been called into questions on multiple occasions, both in the games and in the lore. That just comes with the territory. And as far as I remember there was plenty of 'good' in New Vegas, so take that for what it's worth.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but Chris Avellone doesn't want that. He said if he was to write another Fallout he'd nuke everything all over again, which I think is both incredibly boring and a very petty way of writing the story into what you want. When the appeal comes from seeing people rebuild and start over having them get wiped out again when one of the writers thinks things are advancing too much make the entire thing pointless. Why would I care about the events of New Vegas if I knew everything would just be nuked and we'd be forced to start over. It's just like Mass Effect 3, there's no reason to care about anything that happens because in the end the starchild is just going to use space magic to nullify everything that's happened so far. I'm glad that Avellone has people who are willing to fight him when it comes to the story, especially people like J. E. Sawyer who disagree with him completely, it means only the stuff he really cares about go into the games.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44376019]Yeah, but Chris Avellone doesn't want that. He said if he was to write another Fallout he'd nuke everything all over again, which I think is both incredibly boring and a very petty way of writing the story into what you want. When the appeal comes from seeing people rebuild and start over having them get wiped out again when one of the writers thinks things are advancing too much make the entire thing pointless. Why would I care about the events of New Vegas if I knew everything would just be nuked and we'd be forced to start over. It's just like Mass Effect 3, there's no reason to care about anything that happens because in the end the starchild is just going to use space magic to nullify everything that's happened so far. I'm glad that Avellone has people who are willing to fight him when it comes to the story, especially people like J. E. Sawyer who disagree with him completely, it means only the stuff he really cares about go into the games.[/QUOTE] i think the main difference is that while mass effect 3 was a part of a continuous trilogy, fallout is a series of episodes with no real continuity like, in skyrim morrowind was blown up, but skyrim is kind of a completely separate thing from morrowind and morrowind's story was well concluded in it's own game so I don't feel like that it was made obsolete ME was building up to a climax that never happened and asked a bunch of questions that were ignored. NV is pretty much a complete story all on it's own that concludes rather satisfactorily in my opinion, regardless of what happens in later installments.

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;44375197]Again, New Vegas comes to mind because the player character has an actual personality. Instead of abridged, binary choices when it comes to dialogue like Mass Effect, New Vegas gives the players all sorts of unique lines to choose from during conversations that basically lets them mold the courier into whatever kind of character they want to be.[/QUOTE] [quote][Lady Killer] Wait, Montana? You wouldn't happen to be 17, would you?[/quote]

[QUOTE=Kazumi;44375567]Hell, racism and sexism (and to an extent, homophobia) is an incredible tool in RPG's. It [I]really[/I] helps to colour characters and give them more depth. Imagine the following: some rich bloke has been offering your character a solution to a problem. On the other hand he appears to be stuck-up and he seem to hate any race that isn't human. You can solve the problem without his help. It will be a lot more difficult without it, and you might miss out on a fat bonus. But your best companion is a dwarf and is taking offence. The Witcher series did this great. Either you had to side with the blantant racists of the Flaming Rose or Blue Stripes, or you go with the deluded group of terrorists that is the scoia'tael.[/QUOTE] Not to mention that most RPGs use racism as a common gameplay mechanic. The elder scrolls has an entire separate race for black people.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44376019]Yeah, but Chris Avellone doesn't want that. He said if he was to write another Fallout he'd nuke everything all over again, which I think is both incredibly boring and a very petty way of writing the story into what you want. When the appeal comes from seeing people rebuild and start over having them get wiped out again when one of the writers thinks things are advancing too much make the entire thing pointless. [B]Why would I care about the events of New Vegas if I knew everything would just be nuked and we'd be forced to start over.[/B] It's just like Mass Effect 3, there's no reason to care about anything that happens because in the end the starchild is just going to use space magic to nullify everything that's happened so far. I'm glad that Avellone has people who are willing to fight him when it comes to the story, especially people like J. E. Sawyer who disagree with him completely, it means only the stuff he really cares about go into the games.[/QUOTE] Because War never changes

[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;44375398]Everyone always wants more gay characters but what about Robophiliacs? Why are they thrown under the rug?[/QUOTE] I demand EDI romance.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;44376644]Not to mention that most RPGs use racism as a common gameplay mechanic. The elder scrolls has an entire separate race for black people.[/QUOTE] Who're strong, but dumb. :sigh: What I'd like to see is something where you meet a guy who wants you to do a job for him, he's rich but charitable, charming, a generous host, etc. Then, right near the end of the conversation (or second, or third) he just slips in slur. "The man on the right is Henry Robinson, the group's leader. The coon he's talking to is the Treasurer, Jack Nardon". Or perhaps an incidental NPC in a pub who's really up against it, a manual labourer who's not finding much in the way of work, family troubles etc. and just when you're starting to pity him he goes on a rant about Jews or whomever. Just something.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;44376644]Not to mention that most RPGs use racism as a common gameplay mechanic. [B]The elder scrolls has an entire separate race for black people.[/B][/QUOTE] Yea, and being white is a separate race, and being white and TALL is a separate race, and being tan is a separate race, being green with pointy ears is a separate race, being green with big teeth is a separate race... Not really sure what the point you were trying to make was because its not like TES is like "Race Choices: Human, Elf, Orc, Nightelf, or [B][I]Black[/I][/B]", it just organizes them by in-lore terms, IE Redguard are from a different area of Tamriel than Nords, just as Africans are from a different area of our Earth than Caucasians. [editline]28th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=lazyguy;44377554]Who're strong, but dumb. :sigh:[/QUOTE] Did either of you even play a TES game...? The only race in TES series that's even the slightest bit even alluded to being stupider than the other races is the Orcs (and barely so, mind you), and unless we have an Orc population on the Earth that I haven't heard about I don't think that's going to offend anybody...

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44373552]Hi; I'm a gamer and people talking about sexism offends my delicate sensibilities. Please respect my wishes and don't mention anything that makes me uncomfortable in my presence, TIA.[/QUOTE] Ordinarily I'd agree with your point but this entire interview reads like an RPS/Bioware echo chamber where the RPS guy is throwing up softballs to the Bioware guy. Also what should be painfully obvious is the fact that Bioware of all companies isn't the best at tackling really any kind of diversity issue based around sex or sexual preference, as evidenced by Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. The original GDC talk by Heir might have been great, but this article just comes across as masturbatory.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;44375111]Look at Mortal Kombat 9 for fucks sake.[/QUOTE] MK9 also had a good story. I mean, who else thought Johnny Cage was still going to be alive at the end of all that? :v:

[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;44378655]Yea, and being white is a separate race, and being white and TALL is a separate race, and being tan is a separate race, being green with pointy ears is a separate race, being green with big teeth is a separate race... Not really sure what the point you were trying to make was because its not like TES is like "Race Choices: Human, Elf, Orc, Nightelf, or [B][I]Black[/I][/B]", it just organizes them by in-lore terms, IE Redguard are from a different area of Tamriel than Nords, just as Africans are from a different area of our Earth than Caucasians. [editline]28th March 2014[/editline] Did either of you even play a TES game...? The only race in TES series that's even the slightest bit even alluded to being stupider than the other races is the Orcs (and barely so, mind you), and unless we have an Orc population on the Earth that I haven't heard about I don't think that's going to offend anybody...[/QUOTE] the elder scrolls reinforces the harmful stereotypes that french people are half dragon sorcerers, that romans are charismatic and good with money, and that norwegians are capable of making men and beasts flee in terror by screaming at them

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44379664]the elder scrolls reinforces the harmful stereotypes that french people are half dragon sorcerers, that romans are charismatic and good with money, and that norwegians are capable of making men and beasts flee in terror by screaming at them[/QUOTE] bastards.

[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;44379689]bastards.[/QUOTE] to be fair i think that last one is true

[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;44378655]Did either of you even play a TES game...? The only race in TES series that's even the slightest bit even alluded to being stupider than the other races is the Orcs (and barely so, mind you), and unless we have an Orc population on the Earth that I haven't heard about I don't think that's going to offend anybody...[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races[/url] Redguards have buffs to endurance and strength, with reduced intelligence, willpower and personality. Basically, in TES black people are really strong, but dumb and lazy.

[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;44372959]Why don't we just have Sexism, Homophobia and Racism in our stories to create what would be a realistic world filled with interesting characters with vices and virtues rather then a fucking political correct utopia filled with someone's agenda of equality. As I'm reading this article I can tell it's by one of those losers who thinks that any form of sexuality is bad. I can also tell he's a retard because he compliments Mass Effect 3's implementation of gay character's which was basically "abloo abloo my Husband is dead, hey listen to how I'm gay!" if he was comparing that writing to Dragon Age 2 then it would be totally justified because that boiled down to: "Hey Anders good job on the healing!" "I love you hawk let's make out". You may think that's a joke but you can stumble into a relationship with Anders (A womanizer who was turned gay for no reason what-so-ever other then to appeal to the LGBT crowd or fill Hepler's fantasies) by just being nice to him once or twice. Oh and they bring up The Last of Us DLC which is great because I would sure love to spend 15$ to watch some underage girls make out and and the implications of spending money on that is totally not weird at all. Reading articles like this reminds me why I started drinking.[/QUOTE] The Witcher does a really good job of this, imo.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;44379753][url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races[/url] Redguards have buffs to endurance and strength, with reduced intelligence, willpower and personality. Basically, in TES black people are really strong, but dumb and lazy.[/QUOTE] you know who else is dumb and strong the nords you know, the white people

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44379772]you know who else is dumb and strong the nords you know, the white people[/QUOTE] In fact ,the nords have the exact same endurance/strength buffs and reduce intelligence/willpower/personality

The problem with feminism is that it makes young, insecure white males feel persecuted (usually when it's undue) and lash out in return. The argument turns into a confrontation with the actual extremists (militant feminists and legitimate misogynists) feeling that they are right in conceiving a "battle" between sexes. [QUOTE=ADT;44373704] "Remember kids, it's always the straight white man's fault !"[/QUOTE] Example: quite non hostile argument seen as persecution.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44379704]to be fair i think that last one is true[/QUOTE] Arrrgh! Scared yet?

[QUOTE=Falchion;44380095]The problem with feminism is that it makes young, insecure white males feel persecuted (usually when it's undue) and lash out in return. The argument turns into a confrontation with the actual extremists (militant feminists and legitimate misogynists) feeling that they are right in conceiving a "battle" between sexes. Example: quite non hostile argument seen as persecution.[/QUOTE] It is an issue in how people present feminism and one that those people need to fix, rather than the duty of the audience to not react. The question itself is very loaded claiming straight white males have inherent issues creating diverse characters, which is a ridiculous if not outright false claim when you look at what is happening in the industry. People mock this obviously fallacious attitude, that the terrible writing which is also prevalent in Bioware is due to a homogeneous dev team, and you frame it as insecure little boys lashing out because of hurt feelings. Maybe trying to blame everything on men is a bit divisive, and when it's obviously false and doing you no favours, it might be an idea to not even bring up that argument.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44379664]the elder scrolls reinforces the harmful stereotypes that french people are half dragon sorcerers, that romans are charismatic and good with money, and that norwegians are capable of making men and beasts flee in terror by screaming at them[/QUOTE] I'm a little French and I'd love to be a half-dragon sorcerer. I love the Mass Effect trilogy to death, but I do agree that many romance sequences, whether hetero or homo, feel shoehorned in a lot of the time. To me, Ashley's and Tali's romance sidequests feel the most natural compared to all of the others.

Political Correctness. In Video Games. Let that sink in for a moment. This is such a pointless discussion I can't even fathom how anybody could care about something like this. Do people really have nothing better to do than complain about how their minority is being "opressed" in a video game? Wether it be race or sexuality or gender. Games are art they can do whatever the fuck they want you don't go around asking why the Mona Lisa wasn't black or why the Eiffel Tower was built by privileged males. If they go for a sissy clichee gay character like Mass Effect they can do that and not give a damn about what other people think about it and if the another studio wants to introduce a gay character which is extremely flamboyant and shoves it in your face every fucking second they can do just that. It all comes down to what crowd you want to appeal to. I want strong characters that support the story of the game overall and not shoehorned characters that are just there because it's the new cool thing to do. What is the Video Game Industry coming to, where did all the nerds go and why are there so many whiny bitches talking about stuff they have no fucking idea about?