• Heroes of the Storm: "a triumph"
    50 replies, posted
Why is a MOBA with no items bad? If anything I think it would allow for more interesting teamwork then just "haha I got more gold then you and I'm going to steamroll with this item set"
I don't understand the massive amount of negativity coming from this thread. As someone who plays Dota 2, I'm kinda hyped for Heroes of the Storm. Why? Mostly because I was interested in the fact that Blizzard said they wanted to have an aRTS that lasted between 15-20 min and they actually nailed it. The average match is around 20 min long and anything longer is equivalent to a long match in Dota or LoL. Sometimes I don't wanna play a 35-45 min game. Is the model the best thing ever? No, I'm not crazy about buying hero or grinding for them. I don't think it's that big of a deal though with such a small cast on release. I think it will be an issue in the future though. Like I said, I'm not crazy about buying or grinding for hero. Another thing: HotS having multiple maps is pretty neat. With each maps special objective and the fact that heroes start with almost all their abilities means that there is less laning and more rushing objectives. It's not a bad thing, it's just different. People complain about all aRTS' coming out and being the same as Dota/LoL but shittier, then Blizzard does it and everyone is mad? I don't get it.
[QUOTE=Cakebatyr;44318073]I was watching Giant Bomb's Unfinished of it, while I can't claim to be anything of an expert past the basics of DOTA 2, the game looked abysmal. Mostly because it looked like it was taken from 2005 era game graphics.[/QUOTE] I'm fairly sure those are placeholder models, it's in closed alpha... [QUOTE=Sir Drone;44318462]Why is a MOBA with no items bad? If anything I think it would allow for more interesting teamwork then just "haha I got more gold then you and I'm going to steamroll with this item set"[/QUOTE] Because gold generation and strategic purchases are part of the core of the strategy in the games? It's not necessarily "bad", it's just vastly simplified and removes a tonne of depth from the strategy
[QUOTE=Banned?;44318481]Another thing: HotS having multiple maps is pretty neat. With each maps special objective and the fact that heroes start with almost all their abilities means that there is less laning and more rushing objectives. It's not a bad thing, it's just different. People complain about all aRTS' coming out and being the same as Dota/LoL but shittier, then Blizzard does it and everyone is mad? I don't get it.[/QUOTE] People were mad/laughing at other MOBA clones though? People are skeptical because it's a huge divergence from the formula. Keep in mind LoL at one point was considered a DotA clone but then it diverged into it's own unique game however it still does keep the same formula of kill things for gold/XP, take down the enemy towers and finally their base structure. [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sir Drone;44318462]Why is a MOBA with no items bad? If anything I think it would allow for more interesting teamwork then just "haha I got more gold then you and I'm going to steamroll with this item set"[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Elspin;44318501]Because gold generation and strategic purchases are part of the core of the strategy in the games? It's not necessarily "bad", it's just vastly simplified and removes a tonne of depth from the strategy[/QUOTE] Yes, as Elspin said, if you strip LoL/DotA down to it's bare roots, it's a genre about earning more gold than the enemy and denying gold from them. Of course that's no where close to the entire picture but at it's very roots that's what it's about.
[QUOTE=ashxu;44318720]People were mad/laughing at other MOBA clones though? People are skeptical because it's a huge divergence from the formula. Keep in mind LoL at one point was considered a DotA clone but then it diverged into it's own unique game however it still does keep the same formula of kill things for gold/XP, take down the enemy towers and finally their base structure.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I know, because they were shit, rightfully. Then Blizzard comes out with something proper, if you took more than eight seconds to look at it, and people still laugh? I guess it generally comes from everyone here hating aRTS' in general, especially here. Also, I don't know the people you hang out with but people I know who doesn't play Dota or LoL still think LoL is a Dota clone. Even I, having played both, don't think LoL had diverged that much for it to be considered anything else. I mean this is the nicest way possible because I don't start "Dota vs. LoL" stuff. [QUOTE=ashxu;44318720]Yes, as Elspin said, if you strip LoL/DotA down to it's bare roots, it's a genre about earning more gold than the enemy and denying gold from them. Of course that's no where close to the entire picture but at it's very roots that's what it's about.[/QUOTE] I thought it was about killing the objective in the back of an enemy base? That's the point, that's how you win, not getting more gold. You can farm all day but if the enemy pushes your base first and kills the ancient/inhibitor/big objective thingy first you lose.
[QUOTE=Banned?;44318752]Also, I don't know the people you hang out with but people I know who doesn't play Dota or LoL still think LoL is a Dota clone. Even I, having played both, don't think LoL had diverged that much for it to be considered anything else. I mean this is the nicest way possible because I don't start "Dota vs. LoL" stuff.[/QUOTE] Character scaling is completely different though? The AP carry archetype from LoL is completely absent from DotA. Objective control is different too and major mechanics are missing from one game to the other. There are a lot of big differences between the two games. [QUOTE=Banned?;44318752]I thought it was about killing the objective in the back of an enemy base? That's the point, that's how you win, not getting more gold.[/QUOTE] That's the end goal yes but to do that you generally want to obtain more gold than the enemy, that's why you farm for creeps, kill heroes and take objectives.
You'd call it a triumph too if blizz paid you to do it.
[QUOTE=Rolond Returns;44318877]You'd call it a triumph too if blizz paid you to do it.[/QUOTE] Well, if it was a Blizzard RTS or RPG, not a DOTA/LoL-like game, I would! That's just my personal bias.
[QUOTE=Untouch;44302919]i don't think this is a good thing at all, the reason why MOBAs are popular is the combination of strategies adds depth and this sounds like theyve really removed a lot of depth[/QUOTE] On the otherhand there are a huge amount of players (incl. me) that simply aren't interested in mobas not because the game style itself is inherently "ew" but because its the kind of game that you need to invest dozens of hours in before you grasp the basics and hundreds of hours in before you could actually start playing with your MOBA playing friends Whats so wrong with introducing a smash-brothers of moba games in the market considering? I hate fighting games for the same reasons - they are only fun to play if you put the required amount of man hours to learn it well enough to actually be competitive against your friends. I don't mind a learning curve, the problem is a lot of these highly-technical and meta-driven competitive games are that you essentailly need to become a master at memorizing tiny details with items, gold costs, hero abilities, timing, etc in order to either not get your ass kicked in a binary win-lose setup or to avoid ruining the game for your teammates who follow some highly specific formula of play that is mathematically calculated to be the most successful. SSB is nice because its a more casual, fun version of that same genre without trying to replace it and it allows people to play without knowing meta, and it also allows enough depth to allow a "skilled player" to exist for the game - important for holding longer term attention. [I]That said[/I] if Heroes of the Storm has no depth to it or interesting moments in it that make it as interesting to play as DOTA and LoL then it will be dead on arrival. I personally love that they are trying to build a game where your map strategy is a huge part of winning, a game where a bad start won't garuntee failure, and a game where comebacks are possible. Theoretically it allows for a much more flexible meta and interesting game dynamic when you don't have to worry about always following a highly specific mix-max'd path of items for your specific hero makeups to the point where a small wrong move at the start ruins an entire match. That type of stuff is what keeps everyone except for the most dedicated (aka "fighting game pro" levels of dedication) out of the genre. The big question is if HoS will succeed at that or not. Honestly, I don't really know. I'd personally be more interested in it if it wasn't trying to appeal only to blizzard fanboys who are too scared to try LoL/DOTA since those aren't blizzard games.
Why is this still stickied
why are there so many MOBA's? And why can't more of them go the Awesomenauts or SMNC route (being different and mixed with other genres)?
[QUOTE=The Baconator;44352547]why are there so many MOBA's? And why can't more of them go the Awesomenauts or SMNC route (being different and mixed with other genres)?[/QUOTE] Uh, what makes you say Heroes of the Storm isn't different? No items, objectives, convertable creep camps, shared XP, several skill improvements or additions at certain levels, no direct skill leveling. Heroes of the Storm is just as different if not more different than Awesomenauts.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;44352547]why are there so many MOBA's? And why can't more of them go the Awesomenauts or SMNC route (being different and mixed with other genres)?[/QUOTE] The only reason there hasn't been a game like SMNC is because people are afraid of making tons of money.
I like HotS because it doesn't have all the bullshit that you find in dota or lol
[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;44375423]The only reason there hasn't been a game like SMNC is because people are afraid of making tons of money.[/QUOTE] Yeah, because it worked out so well for Uber.
Not that I see this as a triumph but I don't see it as a failure, I hope for a good future for HotS. It seems like a fast paced and actiony moba, I wouldn't compare it to Dota or LoL. Maybe the best comparison I could make is CoD to CS, CoD has a place but it certainly isn't up there at high skilled professional levels, it's just a pick up-put down casual game. Unfortunately the comparison stops there because CoD is mega successful and CS was on the verge of obscurity until Valve picked up the slack.
[QUOTE=Banned?;44378812]Yeah, because it worked out so well for Uber.[/QUOTE] The reason it failed for Uber is because they focused more on shitty cosmetics then actually balancing the game.
[QUOTE=Elspin;44305065]Correction - all champions are $0. You [I]can[/I] buy them with real money, but I don't know a single person who does. I don't know if it's the same deal with hots, but you shouldn't have to unlock a gameplay feature with real money.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure HOTS is following a very similar monetary model as LoL. You can earn gold to spend on heroes by doing "dailies" similar to the ones hearthstone has if you played that. Also if the heroes in HOTS are too expensive in alpha/beta, blizz will probably lower the price on them or do a thing where heroes get discounted after they stop being new.
I've stuck to FPSs and games that relied on aim/reaction time pretty much all of my life because I don't like the idea of having to spend a lot of time learning a game to enjoy it, but I've been playing LoL for a few months now and I love the depth that you get from builds and such. I still love more simplistic games but I'm not sure why I would want to play a simplified moba.
[QUOTE=Sir Drone;44318462]Why is a MOBA with no items bad? If anything I think it would allow for more interesting teamwork then just "haha I got more gold then you and I'm going to steamroll with this item set"[/QUOTE] That's so true, Honestly I'm actually going to try this fo sure.
Is it just me or has this thread been "new" for awhile now? Shouldn't it of been bumped down by now.
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