EVE Online aiming to become less newbie-terrifying
86 replies, posted
I fucking hate MMO's where right out of the Beginners area you walk straight into a slaughterhouse of people levelling up that you have no chance against.
Sadly this game lack action for me to get into this game, this game is a bit to slow. That's why i perfer games like X3 and Freelancer.
[QUOTE=Remscar;34750851]I enjoy your noob tears, crying about how its "too hard" or "too complicated". EVE doesn't need many more players, just a few, and then we're good. Don't want the good stuff to get too crowded, you can go play WoW instead.
[B]edit:[/B] only qwerty gets the joke[/QUOTE]
You still get boxes for a incredibly bad joke.
deal 'w it.
they will not succeed without pissing off and losing some of the veteran hardcore playerbase
it's impossible to anticipate if the group of new players they manage to attract and convince to keep playing is bigger than the one they lose
this is a bad idea
[QUOTE=Virtanen;34754486]they will not succeed without pissing off and losing some of the veteran hardcore playerbase
it's impossible to anticipate if the group of new players they manage to attract and convince to keep playing is bigger than the one they lose
this is a bad idea[/QUOTE]
It's only the "beginning" part that needs a overhaul.
Before you were at the mercy of a snotty and annoying text box and had to consult the wiki all the time to learn things.
If they made it more intuitive (and possible to skip if you know your shit) then the frustration for a beginner will be gone, and only the whiny veterans with bitch and moan.
There'll [B]ALWAYS[/B] be someone who throws a fit no matter what.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;34751231]It's like X3:TC
It's boring as fuck at first but if you barrel through the shit and start learning how to do stuff, it gets good.
I've been playing a lot of RIFT recently because I like traditional MMOs more but I played EVE before that for a good 2 months and after a week or so of play it started becoming enjoyable.[/QUOTE]
I found X3:TC easy to get into but eventually it got to the point where you needed 15 sextillion pieces of unobtanium before you could do any shooting (continuing the interesting campaigns that is). It stopped being fun after that.
Also the "long stick & button at the end" AI got really grating.
[editline]18th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Van-man;34754528]It's only the "beginning" part that needs a overhaul.
Before you were at the mercy of a snotty and annoying text box and had to consult the wiki all the time to learn things.
If they made it more intuitive (and possible to skip if you know your shit) then the frustration for a beginner will be gone, and only the whiny veterans with bitch and moan.
There'll [B]ALWAYS[/B] be someone who throws a fit no matter what.[/QUOTE]
Skipping the EVE tutorial is easy.
Last time I played EVE the recent tutorial overhaul had already made it really good. The tutorial is fine, I think the problem here is that after the tutorial the game doesn't give enough opportunities to those not in a good corp (which were few and far-between).
[QUOTE=BrainDeath;34754771]Skipping the EVE tutorial is easy.
Last time I played EVE the recent tutorial overhaul had already made it really good. The tutorial is fine, [B]I think the problem here is that after the tutorial the game doesn't give enough opportunities to those not in a good corp (which were few and far-between)[/B].[/QUOTE]
Half the problem I stopped.
When you're not interested in fighting, it's tiresome to be in a corp that every other corp constantly wages war against.
And the corps that go free are often shitty.
And being on your own pretty much sucks no matter what.
One of the things I'd like is a decent movement and combat system rather than everything being point and click.
[QUOTE=markg06;34754838]One of the things I'd like is a decent movement and combat system rather than everything being point and click.[/QUOTE]
Then it's not EVE Online anymore.
And and all veterans are [B]BOUND[/B] to unleash a fiery shitstorm then.
[QUOTE=markg06;34754838]One of the things I'd like is a decent movement and combat system rather than everything being point and click.[/QUOTE]
That's not EVE.
Eve is all about the maths, the stats, the large scale combat or the 5 second hit-and-runs.
It's got a playerbase among the disabled, thanks to the fact that it is easily controlled through menus and almost never requiring a keyboard beyond module activations and chat (even then VOIP is common).
Not to say that its not much faster when you know the keyboard shortcuts: ctrl-click locking is a lifesaver in short combat.
I really wanted to play EVE, I really did, but then I tried the trial with a friend, had some fun for a little bit, but that's when I learned that if I wanted to start playing and get the most out of it, I'd be paying $15 a month to wait for skills to level up most of the time.
I like the new player experiance, it sieves out the people with no patience, or at least not enough patience.
I also dislike people who want the game to be different than it already is, because [I]then[/I] they'd play it. A poster earlier said they should just allow players to have manual control over frigs and, presumably, destroyers (slgihtly bigger than frigs). Thing is, this is basically impossible to implement, and presents a jarring transition from small ships to big.
For example, if you had full control over frigs, similar to Ace Combat games, you'd [I]really[/I] struggle to do anything. Unless you used missiles (and most ships don't), you'd have to track and fire manually. This becomes impossible when you look at the speeds, sizes and distances involved.
I seriously doubt your ability to hit a target which is the size of a boeing 747, which has a transversal velocity of 1km/s. While trying to maintain your own tranversal velocity in regards to every other ship on the field. You also have to stay within about 2km of your optimal range (which can be up to more than 10km).
Shameless plug:
[video=youtube;AKP7ybB3iCQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKP7ybB3iCQ[/video]
If you were in my role in that video, you simply wouldn't be able to control the ship well enough to hit anything manually.
You could argue that you could simply have your ship do all that stuff automatically, but then what's the point? Play another game! Wait for Infinity to finish (if it ever does) and play that.
Edit:
Also, the UI isn't even that hard to navigate, once you get it in order.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;34754919]
Also, the UI isn't even that hard to navigate, once you get it in order.[/QUOTE]
The EVE UI was utter sex, every game with menus and windows should have a UI like EVE. I played Star Trek online recently: it was designed for a five year old: there were these massive blue pointless borders: huge bubble writing as the standard font and so only enough space on the screen for 2 windows at any one time.
I kinda stopped playing it when I lost a good ship cause I fell asleep during a mission..
[QUOTE=iSnubWaitWhat;34746688]They should try to make it F2P as well.[/QUOTE]
To turn it into shitfest like any other F2P game out there?
[editline]18th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=TestECull;34747577]Step 1 on page 1 should be fixing the UI. Holy fuck is it a pain in the ass to navigate. Things you're likely to do often are hidden under six to ten context menus, while things you never fucking use ARE PERMANENTLY PINNED TO THE GODDAMN NEOCOM![/QUOTE]
Because there's no way to customize your UI and there's no guides on how to do that if you're too stupid to figure it out on your own. Amrite?
[editline]18th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=n0cturni;34746681]they can start by making the game fun to play[/QUOTE]
Certainly, it needs more cover and killstreaks.
[editline]18th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Van-man;34747913]Please for the love of god, don't make them game suck for veterans.
That said, EVE Online [B]DOES[/B] have a horribly steep learning curve.
Also it's too expensive for someone like me who only has a itty bitty amount of time to play games for.
But that's just me who'd like a [I]"pay-as-you-play"[/I] scheme for casuals and people with tight schedule instead of pay per [I]"month/ quarter of a year/ year"[/I].[/QUOTE]
Definitely agree, the only problem is that they'd need to remake the skill system because otherwise you'll be able to train lots of skills for minimum amount of cash, unlike those who pay per month.
I thought Eve was pretty easy to learn. I didn't play the tutorial at all. I just asked the people in the tutorial chat channel, checked the wiki and asked the people in my cooperation (could be compared to guilds in WoW).
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;34754919]I like the new player experiance, it sieves out the people with no patience, or at least not enough patience.
I also dislike people who want the game to be different than it already is, because [I]then[/I] they'd play it. A poster earlier said they should just allow players to have manual control over frigs and, presumably, destroyers (slgihtly bigger than frigs). Thing is, this is basically impossible to implement, and presents a jarring transition from small ships to big.
For example, if you had full control over frigs, similar to Ace Combat games, you'd [I]really[/I] struggle to do anything. Unless you used missiles (and most ships don't), you'd have to track and fire manually.[/quote] This won't be a problem with forward facing guns and a quick, nimble ship. It would add a whole new realm of combat the game currently lacks without removing the current model for pilots who want larger ships that wouldn't be feasible to fly in that manner. The method we have now is fine for larger vessels, but IMO, it just doesn't feel right with frigs.
Also, destros would be too big to fly that way I think. They have crews in the hundreds. The only ships that I would subject to manual control like that would be things that don't need crews at all.
This becomes impossible when you look at the speeds, sizes and distances involved.
[quote]I seriously doubt your ability to hit a target which is the size of a boeing 747, which has a transversal velocity of 1km/s. While trying to maintain your own tranversal velocity in regards to every other ship on the field. You also have to stay within about 2km of your optimal range (which can be up to more than 10km).[/quote] Welcome to the reality of dogfighting. Manfred Von Richtofen faced those very same issues in his Fokker DIII, and he had a damn sight more to deal with than just closing velocities and other enemies.
In space there is no air drag to slow your projectiles down, and there is no gravity to cause them to drop. They fly line of sight. On top of that projectiles in EvE fly at hypersonic speeds, there is next to no transit time either. It would merely be a matter of lining up the crosshair on your windshield and opening fire.
I honestly think it would work for frigates.
[quote]You could argue that you could simply have your ship do all that stuff automatically, but then what's the point?[/quote] It's more or less already like that.
[quote]Also, the UI isn't even that hard to navigate, once you get it in order.[/QUOTE]
Until they remove the chat from the neocom and add a one-touch access to making corps/pilots red or blue it's not user friendly.
[QUOTE=TestECull;34757327]This won't be a problem with forward facing guns and a quick, nimble ship. It would add a whole new realm of combat the game currently lacks without removing the current model for pilots who want larger ships that wouldn't be feasible to fly in that manner. The method we have now is fine for larger vessels, but IMO, it just doesn't feel right with frigs.
Also, destros would be too big to fly that way I think. They have crews in the hundreds. The only ships that I would subject to manual control like that would be things that don't need crews at all.
This becomes impossible when you look at the speeds, sizes and distances involved.
Welcome to the reality of dogfighting. Manfred Von Richtofen faced those very same issues in his Fokker DIII, and he had a damn sight more to deal with than just closing velocities and other enemies.
In space there is no air drag to slow your projectiles down, and there is no gravity to cause them to drop. They fly line of sight. On top of that projectiles in EvE fly at hypersonic speeds, there is next to no transit time either. It would merely be a matter of lining up the crosshair on your windshield and opening fire.
I honestly think it would work for frigates.
It's more or less already like that.
Until they remove the chat from the neocom and add a one-touch access to making corps/pilots red or blue it's not user friendly.[/QUOTE]
You may like star trek online: it's free go try it out.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;34746910]It is fun to play, you just have to do a bunch of unnecessary shit to get to the good part.
If they sped up skill training significantly and made missions pay more I'm sure their subscriber base would skyrocket, right now it takes way too long for newbies to get anywhere, that's if they even make it past the boring as hell tutorial.
Really the entire beginning of the game needs a massive revamp so it's actually entertaining.[/QUOTE]
I Disagree with some points, i agree their is too much to train total, even now a character can't have all possible skills at level 5 it's unpossible. However, a newbie can train into a rifter (It's a small ship) and be usefull in gang pvp fights in nullsec, whereas you wont be dishing out the damage, you'll be making sure other ships can't warp off, which is far more important, as people train higher, they dont like to do those roles, so the newbies come into it.
oh god, I'm getting that feeling again.
must...SHOOT...[B]SPACE ROCKS AAAAAUUUUUUUGGGHHHH[/B]
time to start up a trial and mine the fuck out of everything.
[sp]yes I found, and occasionally still do, find mining fun, salvaging is cool too.[/sp]
[QUOTE=BrainDeath;34757359]You may like star trek online: it's free go try it out.[/QUOTE]
I did, and it's meh at best. The engine it runs on is absolutely awful. I got to level 30 or so, bought Picard's ship, and just got bored. Feels sooo grindy and it crashes all the time. Haven't played it since. EvE is just better, flaws and all, than STO, and as much as I'd like to be able to use my 360 pad to control frigs with fixed, forward firing guns as if it were IL2 Sturmovik, I'm not exactly going to bail on it because it doesn't have that. EvE is a damn good game right as it sits, and the fact that it has my MMO-hating arse playing and renewing is a testament to that.
I honestly do believe it would make frigs far more useful for endgame characters and big-ass fleet battles, however. I've only been in the game for two and a half months, yet I haven't touched a frigate since I got into battlecruisers after just three weeks in. I've even got a rifter sitting around doing nothing, unused because it does so little DPS and I've got a tackle on my Hurricane anyway.
But then I don't participate in the big fleet engagements, so idunno. Biggest death ball we can muster is just 14 ships, that's as many active accounts as my corp has, so perhaps if I was in something like Goonfleet I'd put that rifter to use as a dedicated tackle.
Is it really true that the character creator is extremely expansive, but you never render more than one person in the game at any given time?
[QUOTE=yuki;34761782]Is it really true that the character creator is extremely expansive, but you never render more than one person in the game at any given time?[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked, yes.
Your "avatar picture" doesn't count since it's just a photo of your character in a pose of your liking.
Still, the character creator is damn snazzy, just a shame the characters isn't used more, though they [B]MIGHT[/B] with DUST [I]whatevernumber[/I]
[editline]19th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=goon165;34759110]oh god, I'm getting that feeling again.
must...SHOOT...[B]SPACE ROCKS AAAAAUUUUUUUGGGHHHH[/B]
time to start up a trial and mine the fuck out of everything.
[sp]yes I found, and occasionally still do, find mining fun, salvaging is cool too.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Lazyness is parking a Iteron Mk.5 with a decent mining laser in a asteroid field in a 0.6 security or up zone and setting it to mine a valuable asteroid.
You can literally alt+tab out and do something else and just occasionally check on it.
It's not effective, but hey.
[QUOTE=yuki;34761782]Is it really true that the character creator is extremely expansive, but you never render more than one person in the game at any given time?[/QUOTE]
Make a char you like anyway. You see your pilot all the time if, like me, you use the captain's quarters when docked. Also, there's future plans to open up on-foot sections in stations, which will likely be when the character creation system comes into it's own.
My first time in-game I made more the a million ISK in a day. I forgot how I did it but I know I just started mining right after the tutorial.
lol does anyone remember how much of a fuss removing the learning skills made? "OMG QUITTING EVE" it was absolutely ridiculous, considering going to level 5 in the first few and level 4 in the second set would require ~3 years of solid skillgain to make up the time you lost training the learning skills, and that's just to break even (though you'd quickly grow your REAL skills past a player who hadn't trained them after that).
Anyway, anything you do to EVE is going to piss off the ~HaRdCoRe~ elitist fags who think they're better than you for playing EVE. Frankly, I don't give a shit, and neither should CCP, because I've got 10+ friends who are interested in the game, but are turned off by the learning curve (though $15 a month is a bit stiff with so many F2P games hitting the market, and that's not helping me convince them either)... and I'm not the only EVE player, current or former, in this boat.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;34765933]lol does anyone remember how much of a fuss removing the learning skills made? "OMG QUITTING EVE" it was absolutely ridiculous, considering going to level 5 in the first few and level 4 in the second set would require ~3 years of solid skillgain to make up the time you lost training the learning skills, and that's just to break even (though you'd quickly grow your REAL skills past a player who hadn't trained them after that).
Anyway, anything you do to EVE is going to piss off the ~HaRdCoRe~ elitist fags who think they're better than you for playing EVE. Frankly, I don't give a shit, and neither should CCP, because I've got 10+ friends who are interested in the game, but are turned off by the learning curve (though $15 a month is a bit stiff with so many F2P games hitting the market, and that's not helping me convince them either)... and I'm not the only EVE player, current or former, in this boat.[/QUOTE]
You raise a good point.
So much shit has changed now that there's a fragmentation between people who want the old EvE back and just regular people who give a shit.
Elitists are assholes. That's why I like RIFT. It's a bit from every MMO without the bad community.
Which is good and bad, because if you've played a good amount of other MMOs, you'll be bored by it, but thankfully I haven't.
I'd play EvE again if I had the time but working part time on top of being a full time college student doesn't give me the same price/enjoyment ratio.
Man, I just looked at the EvE thread and want to play again.
I wonder if my account with my Merlin still exists.
After signing on, and then losing the mining barge I worked for months to get, I signed off for the last time. I played the damn thing for years and I [I]still[/I] don't know how to play.
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