[QUOTE=xalener;52754586]I mean Machinegames's Wolfenstein definitely have that Paul Verhoeven approach with bombastic action that has social commentary woven into it, so I don't see what problem could be have with its prominence in The New Colossus.
There's even some in-game dialog of Nazis talking about how it's wrong for the rebels to be killing nazis just because they have conflicting world views, then they talk about what death camp they're being assigned to.[/QUOTE]
the commentary perfectly demonstrates the ultimate issue with nazism, which is that neighbors betray neighbors, and regular women become killers using cyanide in sausages to murder Nazis because they feel like they have no choice, and really, they don't.
If you don't fall in line, you get thrown into a ditch, shot and slain. [B]You either support nazism or die suffering.[/B] That, or you fight those fascists and murder them in the streets, so that you can hope to live a life where you aren't outcasted for merely disagreeing with the ultimatum of law and genocide.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52753457]That's exactly my point? Wolfenstein is Wolfenstein.
My gripe is just with Bethesda's spin on it and their response to that particular portion of their fans.
[editline]6th October 2017[/editline]
I think you guys are misunderstanding, I must have worded myself terribly.[/QUOTE]
Wolfenstein has been about killing nazis since day 1 dude
You literally murder cyborg hitler at the end of the first game
I have a feeling Marbalo's point comes from the fact that Wolfenstein really [I]has been[/I] inherently apolitical, and that "Nazis" have only just become a political topic again (for some reason.) Making this statement seem kind of virtue signal-y when they could've just not said anything and still had a game about killing nazis. It's this weird implication that you need to come forward and denounce a defunct political party from the 40's.
That being said, the type of nazis you're killing and games like wolfenstein parody are a far, far distance from the "nazis" shitting up modern day american politics. I think that's another angle to Marbalo's complaints and a general fact people tend to neglect a lot - when people say "you should punch all nazis and this guy is a nazi and saying this makes you a nazi and trump is a nazi" they don't mean actual members of The National Socialist German Workers' Party. They mean modern racist white dudes, so of course wolfenstein has nothing to do with the political nazis of today.
It's funny, I never give thought to any of these things when playing games.
I really don't care what publishers/devs say or do. Nor do I give a shit about what the fans have to say in response.
I didn't even know there was a controversy. And now that I do know, nothing changed.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52753308]I dont like politics in my video games. This is stupid.[/QUOTE]
Well you're going to have to stop playing video games because 99% of them take a stance on something in some fashion.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52753308]I dont like politics in my video games. This is stupid.[/QUOTE]
1) If taking a stance against Nazis is now somehow a controversial political point, then our country is officially in Full On Crisis Mode, and needs every single person, company, and artist it possibly can to come out in full and unequivocal support behind one unified message: Nazis don't deserve a goddamn thing.
2) The primary objective of Wolfenstein is, and always has been, [B]having fun killing Nazis.[/B]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"Game where you shoot nazis and has been about shooting nazis for 30+ years may involve shooting nazis"
Bravo bethesda we never would have thought
I don't understand people who say "I don't want politics in my video games"
People write stories for video games because they want to give deeper meaning to the media. Some sort of message. That message should be what the creators want to tell.
If you don't care about video games being thought provoking, then ypu shouldn't care anyways what the story is about and just play. Something having a political message shouldn't really effect your enjoyment of the media if you just want to play a fun game.
I hope they add the Empire of Japan at some point, or what's left of it.
[QUOTE=gk99;52754576]Were they? Nazis were universally frowned upon until this past couple of years.[/QUOTE]
A statement doesn't need to be controversial in order to be political.
A game about killing Nazis because Nazis are scum still conveys a certain world view, however simplistic.
[QUOTE=Loofiloo;52753364]This follows up Bethesda's previous political stance expressed in Doom, in which the game controversially decided to express an anti-demon worldview[/QUOTE]
Please write a letter to your nearest UAC representative to advocate demon rights.
Thank you and god bless
[QUOTE=Judas;52754622]Wolfenstein has been about killing nazis since day 1 dude
You literally murder cyborg hitler at the end of the first game[/QUOTE]
There is no Cyborg Hitler in Castle Wolfenstein nor its sequel Beyond Castle Wolfenstein though. It took three games and a bizarre genre-change from Stealth to Action for a Mecha Hitler to be involved.
[editline]8th October 2017[/editline]
"The first Duke Nukem was a 3D first person shooter."
[QUOTE=omarfr;52756561]I don't understand people who say "I don't want politics in my video games"
People write stories for video games because they want to give deeper meaning to the media. Some sort of message. That message should be what the creators want to tell.
If you don't care about video games being thought provoking, then ypu shouldn't care anyways what the story is about and just play. Something having a political message shouldn't really effect your enjoyment of the media if you just want to play a fun game.[/QUOTE]
Can you guys forget this point and wake up to the fact this guy is genuinely saying that "nazis are bad" is akin to political shoehorning
[editline]8th October 2017[/editline]
it's just absurd
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52753308]I dont like politics in my video games. This is stupid.[/QUOTE]
You may as well remove a big amount of video games then.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52753308]I dont like politics in my video games. This is stupid.[/QUOTE]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/IQ9eBAG.gif[/img]
Historically in fiction nazis have been the least politically loaded bad guys / cannon fodder in line with cultists, terrorists, bandits, aliens, skeletons and Russians.
Nazis are an easy choice when they have been literally enemy combatants for many western countries which have years or decades of anti-nazi propaganda for that reason.
What makes it controversial, I think is that media is constantly buzzing about neo-nazis and those who oppose them, both being real people in our society.
In the real world context, killing all nazis isn't so implication-free as it's in the world of fiction. We'd have a pretty huge problem if we collectively decided it's ok to extrajudically murder people for having harmful political ideology. Which context applies, isn't always so clear so we end up with confusion nad misunderstanding like in this thread.
idk if itd be that big of a problem if every nazi was suddenly exterminated. what would BJ do?
[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52759041]idk if itd be that big of a problem if every nazi was suddenly exterminated. what would BJ do?[/QUOTE]
Have a BBQ
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52755462]1) If taking a stance against Nazis is now somehow a controversial political point, then our country is officially in Full On Crisis Mode, and needs every single person, company, and artist it possibly can to come out in full and unequivocal support behind one unified message: Nazis don't deserve a goddamn thing.
2) The primary objective of Wolfenstein is, and always has been, [B]having fun killing Nazis.[/B]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯[/QUOTE]
Just wait until this guy hears about the Deus Ex series.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;52759594]Have a BBQ[/QUOTE]
exactly. kill all nazis.
i wonder if nazis taste good
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52760760]i wonder if nazis taste good[/QUOTE]
[t]http://i39.tinypic.com/1689co0.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/OJj8t.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52753308]I dont like politics in my video games. This is stupid.[/QUOTE]
hang on
everyone's already addressed half of how dumb this is
but why can't video games be political
there are so many political video games
most games have an anti-war message.
movies are political, and always have been. why would a game be exempt?
this dumbass 'keep politics outta stuff' thing is beyond stupid. what makes you the arbiter of what's allowed to be political? developers, filmmakers, artists of any variety, have always been making political art. and they always should. this is stupid. it's like you hear people saying 'keep politics out of it!' and you just repeat that without ever even thinking about it. then you have to retroactively defend those opinions with bullshit you make up.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52758128]Can you guys forget this point and wake up to the fact this guy is genuinely saying that "nazis are bad" is akin to political shoehorning
[editline]8th October 2017[/editline]
it's just absurd[/QUOTE]
I feel like that's exactly his point, though. Saying nazis are bad is akin to making a political statement today. A game developer making a fun game where you shoot futuristic nazis has to confirm that indeed yes, nazis are bad.
That's fuckin' absurd, if you ask me.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52760911]hang on
everyone's already addressed half of how dumb this is
but why can't video games be political
there are so many political video games.[/QUOTE]
It's fair enough that he might not want politics in his video games. Politics are pretty [B]stressful[/B] so if he wants to avoid it fair enough
to add to your point though, video games have been political since forever... Fallout series is a commentary on the american dream, Bioshock a commentary on pure anarchism and chaos, GTA a parody of the American dream and crime with a list of pretty blunt political jokes, pretty much all historical strategy games feature political issues really heavily, every [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Government_simulation_video_games"]government sims[/URL] like Tropico out there is pretty direct
Many of them are pretty sterile and indirect about them, but a shitload are a pretty direct statement on the nature of politics. The politics might not even be relevant today. If you really wanted to, you could even find deep political topics in Morrowind/Oblivion or Witcher I bet.
Even flash games from forever ago have a lot of political nonsense
[t]http://flashgames555.com/pictures/fighting/Bush-vs-Kerry.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;52760983]I feel like that's exactly his point, though. Saying nazis are bad is akin to making a political statement today. A game developer making a fun game where you shoot futuristic nazis has to confirm that indeed yes, nazis are bad.
That's fuckin' absurd, if you ask me.[/QUOTE]
thats not what he said though, that's what I said
It seems like we're going on about how games in general have shoehorned political messages, but even if that were the case I think it should be ignored in favor of disputing that "nazis are evil" isn't really comparable to stuffing your face with political messages
[editline]9th October 2017[/editline]
Imagine thinking the prospect that nazis are evil is a blatant political mouthpiece
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52761068]thats not what he said though, that's what I said
[/QUOTE]
I'm just speculating on his part, honestly. I think he just articulated his message/point poorly, although he'll have to speak up if that's the case. I just get the impression he's more bothered that the whole nazi shitflinging in politics has gotten so bad that traditional, WW2 nazi bad guys in media now have to be justified instead of just simply being what they always have been. I can see how it could [I]feel[/I] like political shoehorning if you need to come forward and justify the inclusion of nazis as the bad guy in your content. He might feel that they're [I]only[/I] doing this in an attempt to denounce modern day neo-nazis, which is unnecessary due to how disconnected these fantasy nazis are to the real thing.
Again though, I'm making a lot of assumptions on his behalf and could be creating a point that doesn't exist. But something about this whole ordeal bothers me too, and I think it may be just that. No one should be talking about nazis in video games as a political statement at all, they're the safest video game baddies next to skeletons and zombies. The fact that you can include them in video games as simple props is [I]good,[/I] you want to retain their inclusion in media as inherently apolitical, the only 'political agenda' attached would be a given.
We're both coming at this idea with similar logic, but from a different angle. I think their given status as apolitical mob enemies is exactly the reason why "embracing anti-nazi stance" with a product is ridiculous. You see that as a reason why they should be able to embrace it without any backlash.
It all comes down to overreactions from both sides, like always.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52760911]hang on
everyone's already addressed half of how dumb this is
but why can't video games be political
there are so many political video games
most games have an anti-war message.
movies are political, and always have been. why would a game be exempt?
this dumbass 'keep politics outta stuff' thing is beyond stupid. what makes you the arbiter of what's allowed to be political? developers, filmmakers, artists of any variety, have always been making political art. and they always should. this is stupid. it's like you hear people saying 'keep politics out of it!' and you just repeat that without ever even thinking about it. then you have to retroactively defend those opinions with bullshit you make up.[/QUOTE]
I always found the "no politics in my games" to be hyperbole at best. It's not that people don't want politics in games at all, they just don't want it shoved in their faces like a stank-ass dick. Most games are political, but they're SUBTLE about it. A tweet that's lampooning Trump's campaign slogan is anything but subtle. Again, the tweet that caused all this backlash was "Make America Nazi-Free Again". You'd have to be living under a rock to not see the connection.
It's the same kind of backlash that happens when localization companies shoehorn in Social Justice messages into Japanese stuff. Like the recent, what is it, 3 times Funimation landed themselves in hot water for their anime dubs namedropping GamerGate or the Patriarchy for no real reason?
Stuff like that never educates or enlightens the way a proper political subtext should. It is inherently divisive, especially in politically volatile times like this where everyone and their grandma is throwing around the term "Nazi" at anyone even remotely right-leaning, not just the actual neo-nazis prowling the streets. I won't blame those aforementioned "remotely right-leaning" people if they think that tweet was yet another false-accusatory attack on them. If people weren't so willing to invoke Godwin's Law so aggressively these past few years, this would be the complete nontroversy it should have been, but that's not the case.
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