Lack of resources, awareness the reason Assassin women will not appear in Unity - Sensationalist Headlines

I know right? Why cater to a pretty much non-existent demographic? [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ownederd;45077054]game companies make lazy excuses[/QUOTE] you're probably still going to buy it. everyone "critiquing" it will probably still buy it. i doubt any of this will affect sales in any way at all. therby having absolutely no solid voice. and as it stands it's like someone... raising awareness of terrible animation offsets and other various offsets in general, like a character holding a gun so it clips through their hands.

[QUOTE=BigFurryHead;45077056]I know right? [B]Why cater to a pretty much non-existent demographic[/B]? [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] you're probably still going to buy it. everyone "critiquing" it will probably still buy it.[/QUOTE] where

[QUOTE=BigFurryHead;45077056]I know right? Why cater to a pretty much non-existent demographic?[/QUOTE] There's so much wrong with that line of thinking. First, women aren't a "non-existent demographic". They make up 40% of players according to the ESRB. Second, even if they didn't, adding playable women isn't something you'd do just for "catering to" women. Guess what, men playing the game can appreciate it too. Third, the smart game developer thing to do isn't to have your audience totally segmented, you want to expand them. You know, to make more money. This is a chicken and egg thing. If Mario had a cameo in Gears of War when I was 13, I'd probably give it a try, even though that's the kind of game that's icky to me at the time. And I probably would have been like "wow this game is awesome" and gotten into shooters. Sometimes you just need something familiar to help you get into something new, especially when there's an ever-present social attitude that it's "not for you" from other kids or other people.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;45077009]I think it's just a cool way of Ubisoft saying "We're not going to invest money on people that don't buy our games".[/QUOTE] i hope you realize that assassins creed is like, the only AAA series that has a [I]fucking enormous[/I] female following. like, holy shit. they wouldn't even come close to breaking even if women didn't buy AC. [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] and seriously, let's ignore all this social representation stuff for a sec: aren't you guys [I]tired[/I] of playing as straight buff white guys all the fucking time? it's gotten to the point where i just groan and close out of a trailer for a game that claims to be next gen and innovative. [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] also furryhead, for someone who supposedly doesn't care about what gender/race/sexuality/whatever game characters are, you sure as hell love to get angry about people wanting to change something that's irrelevant, right???

[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45075050]You think that because you haven't been systematically erased from every form of media since the dawn of western civilization lmao representation is a thing that kind of matters and even if you don't believe that, i'm amazed that you're not tired of our repertoire of video game main characters being 75% straight white dudes and 20% animals it's supremely shitty writing even when I step off my constant feminist soapbox[/QUOTE] So if I play the game Manhunt, in which the players character is a serial killer, I am represented by that? What about the guy from Hotline Miami? Kratos? Fuckin Mario? Video game characters aren't about representation at all. And the developers here simply don't want to make a female character, they just say that it is a lot of extra work because there would be a shit storm anyway. The most important aspect about videogames is the gameplay.

[QUOTE=Impact1986;45079246]The most important aspect about videogames is the gameplay.[/QUOTE] if only gameplay's important then why are you upset that people want non-white dude characters in games for a change why even bring up those first two points you've got if the only important aspect of a game is gameplay then.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45079205]i hope you realize that assassins creed is like, the only AAA series that has a [I]fucking enormous[/I] female following. like, holy shit. they wouldn't even come close to breaking even if women didn't buy AC. [/QUOTE] Where do you get that information from? [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=milkandcooki;45079259]if only gameplay's important then why are you upset that people want non-white dude characters in games for a change why even bring up those first two points you've got if the only important aspect of a game is gameplay then.[/QUOTE] How the hell am I upset? I am just saying that it is a waste of time. Just look how Watch dogs development was going, if they put more of their resources into actually fixing stuff or better implementing their features people wouldn't be so angry about that game. And where did I say it is the only important aspect?

actually nvm, your first point is really loaded. like, like, this is sorta otu there, but think about kids cartoons and educational shows. why do you think shows like sesame street and other cartoons have a diverse cast of different sexes, races, nationalities, body types, etc? because it's easier to sympathize with a medium if you can relate to the characters. i mean, you'd have a more difficult time enjoying cartoons and tv shows if they [I]all[/I] starred women or people from a completely different background than you. and manhunt man from manhunt (the first game, i assume) isn't really a good example for your argument, because in that game you're some dude who has to survive some fucked up gauntlet that forces him to murder dudes. sure, he was on death row, but his objective in the game is to survive and get away from all the bad guys. and plenty of good videogame protags have been or are murderers or thieves. manhunt man being a murderer doesn't make it impossible to sympathize with him. like, in pretty much every game with combat you're technically playing a murderer. nathan drake, sam fisher, lara croft, samus, mario, gordon freeman, lee everett, ezio, snake... etc. all of these characters are super well known and, for the most part, are decently written. you may not like all of them, but i'm assuming you can emphasize or sympathize with at least one of these characters a little bit. so basically it's getting to the point where people are fucking tired of white guys as videogame protags. whatever, they can be nicely written, but it's getting stale. i'm less likely to actually care about a character's struggle if they are almost carbon copies of guys i've been controlling for most of my gaming history. [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] and i don't see how making characters that aren't [I]white guys[/I] is a waste of time. you're making it seem like they'd have to throw away current assets and replace them with new ones. they wouldn't need to do that if they just made the characters not boring in the first place. let's say watch_dogs boring white guy took 300 hours to conceptualize and create a model and textures for. would the game seriously have been any different if boring white guy with a bogus backstory was a woman. i mean, one of the main characters in that game is a lady with a bunch of tattoos who is just as good as computery stuff as white guy protag. why couldn't a character like her run around and shoot guys and use her cool future phone instead? ubisoft has made some pretty cool female characters, but i guess they're just too lazy or scared to make them playable. [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Impact1986;45079263]Where do you get that information from?[/QUOTE] every website i've been on that isn't FP. overhearing conversations from girls at school, around town, at conventions, in game servers, on facebook, on twitter, on tumblr. countless fanart made by women. pull the "not real gamers" bullshit all you want in response to this bit, but girls i know that don't really care about games have played this and loved it. i don't have some fancy graph to put in this thread, but it's one of the only [I]big[/I] series that's around where i've heard actual women talking about it instead of a majority of dudebros like how it is with call of duty.

[QUOTE=Impact1986;45079246]Video game characters aren't about representation at all.[/QUOTE] Oh no, just no. Video games are very much about representation. If you take something, well I believe in the past the characters from Gears of War were used as an example. If you say "These characters aren't about representation, I'm not big and muscle bound!" then you're wrong. No they don't represent you directly as a person, but they exist as characters to allow players to live out the power fantasy of being a huge muscled hero who saves the day by shouting and shooting things. There is more to representation than simply having a character do exactly the same thing as yourself. The representation there lies in the character being an extension of the players fantasies, they represent not you exactly, but what the player fantasizes about. So no, a character not being exactly like you doesn't mean gaming as a whole isn't about representation, you just didn't look any further than the surface "Well this guy kills people and I don't, he isn't supposed to be me!" idea, when there is much more to it that you didn't consider.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45079312] every website i've been on that isn't FP. overhearing conversations from girls at school, around town, at conventions, in game servers, on facebook, on twitter, on tumblr. countless fanart made by women. pull the "not real gamers" bullshit all you want in response to this bit, but girls i know that don't really care about games have played this and loved it. i don't have some fancy graph to put in this thread, but it's one of the only [I]big[/I] series that's around where i've heard actual women talking about it instead of a majority of dudebros like how it is with call of duty.[/QUOTE] And did the games franchise feature a female protagonist? So the conclusion to this is that the majority of females don't care about it. Let the developer put his resources into better use.

[QUOTE=Impact1986;45079365]And did the games franchise feature a female protagonist? So the conclusion to this is that the majority of females don't care about it. Let the developer put his resources into better use.[/QUOTE] what a tremendous leap and a horrible misunderstanding of virtually everything posted in this thread

[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;45079364]Oh no, just no. Video games are very much about representation. If you take something, well I believe in the past the characters from Gears of War were used as an example. If you say "These characters aren't about representation, I'm not big and muscle bound!" then you're wrong. No they don't represent you directly as a person, but they exist as characters to allow players to live out the power fantasy of being a huge muscled hero who saves the day by shouting and shooting things. There is more to representation than simply having a character do exactly the same thing as yourself. So no, a character not being exactly like you doesn't mean gaming as a whole isn't about representation, you just didn't look any further than the surface "Well this guy kills people and I don't, he isn't supposed to be me!" idea, when there is much more to it that you didn't consider.[/QUOTE] You are saying that it is about doing things, but not about being things. So it doesn't matter who we play as, but what we are doing in the games we play

like, i made some sincere posts for once that didn't call anybody a moron and you didn't even read them.

[QUOTE=Impact1986;45079372]You are saying that it is about doing things, but not about being things. So it doesn't matter who we play as, but what we are doing in the games we play[/QUOTE] Actually, the character's exist as power fantasies themselves. Big, muscled, heroic. It's very important who you are playing as. As noted above, I'm pretty sure you aren't reading at all, lol.

[QUOTE=Impact1986;45079372]You are saying that it is about doing things, but not about being things. So it doesn't matter who we play as, but what we are doing in the games we play[/QUOTE] now we're going in circles here's some things i don't think you understand - it's possible to want a game series to undergo changes [I]while also enjoying it.[/I] - you don't need to be the same race/gender/ to identify with a character. that doesn't mean that all characters should be fucking white guys over and over again. - [I]not everybody is a robot that only cares about gameplay and nothing else in games, and only cares about the characters and story when somebody else DARES to threaten the bland and boring status quo. [/I] [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] like idk dude, i don't see how having not-terrible copy paste characters is a waste of resources. is it more of a "waste" than putting ambient occlusion in a corner of an alleyway that 80% of players won't visit? more of a waste than having unique dialogue for a situation in a game that most players won't see? more of a waste than making side missions that you aren't required to complete? even if it costs extra, it's not significant enough to fuck the game up financially. money spending 101.

[QUOTE=Doomish;45069034]As "tone-deaf" as it sounds, it's completely true, making both genders be playable is a lot of work. Max Payne 3, one of my favorite video games of all time, has over a thousand footstep sounds. That's about 5 footstep sounds for every material you can walk on, repeated for every type of shoe, repeated for both genders that can wear those kinds of shoe specifically for the multiplayer. Max is the only playable character in single player but there is an entirely different female skeleton and animation rig that is only used in multiplayer, something a lot of players will never see because they won't play it. It's the same reason everyone is the same height and everyone uses similar animations: to save on both budget and effort, both of which are equally valuable to a game company. It has nothing to do with women except for the way the person phrased their question. This article is so weirdly anti-Ubisoft that it refuses to acknowledge the fact that what they said about it being a lot of work isn't wrong. If you can understand the reason behind it, why ask it in the first place?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that footstep sounds of all things would be the same across genders. I'm not sure how gravel shifting can have a masculine or feminine tone to it. [editline]11th June 2014[/editline] As much as I want to be the guy who says, "Who gives a shit what gender/race they are, just play the game," I think Ubi's excuse is pretty shitty considering the amount of money, resources and staff (I mean my god, they have a disgusting amount of people at their disposal) they have available to them. It's not like you have to make a billion new animations, hell you could probably just get away with editing the current ones. Whatever way you do it, there's really no excuse not to because you're a fucking AAAA company making a AAAA game. They can tell people that that's just what the period and location called for, and I'd be cool with that, but to say it would be too much work? That is just obvious bullshit.

This is actually the same reason why Nintendo decided to go with Pac-Man for Smash Bros, bringing in Ms. Pac-Man would've doubled development time.

[QUOTE=Swiket;45079512]This is actually the same reason why Nintendo decided to go with Pac-Man for Smash Bros, bringing in Ms. Pac-Man would've doubled development time.[/QUOTE] i'm in game development and i can confirm that adding girl things such as not having a dick, bows, the color pink, longer hair, and boobs triple or quintuple development costs. 90% of the budget that went into transistor went into the texturing of the underside of the main character's breasts.

But does anyone truly fucking care? ( Dumb question considering how much of a cluster this thread is... ) It's a game, you could play as fucking transgender arab Jesus cosplaying Ice-T and so long as the gameplay was good you'd still enjoy it. Unless you care a whole lot about the 'representation' thing then you really can't pull much weight when it comes to what you're playing as. I guess some people care about this... but is it really, really, really that important? Would it affect the way you play the game in any shape or form? Would it make you buy or ignore the game? Were you really going to play that game if you can't get over something as shallow as your ingame avatar? Perhaps developers find these average white dude characters easier to design or something. I'm not even sure what I'm trying to get across here, but... yeah. Try looking at it from their perspective. The major consumers for videogames are still white guys varying from 15-20's. Appealing to the more superficial of that lot could potentially work in sales. Edit: The argument of 'story', 'graphical design' and things non-related to gameplay popped up in my mind. The problem there is that if you're trying to play a video gaem for things other than the video gaem play then I gotta put a stop to you, because you're trying to do some strange things and I don't really understand why you'd try to do these peculiar things. There are "artsy" games around, though. There's Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons on one far fringe, and Gone Homo on the other. The former is often considered to be a walking simulator more than anything, but it still features music, graphical design, voicework and story over gameplay. If more games in this genre keep popping up and just featuring ' le white dudes ', I guess it'd be plausible for people to start complaining about the characters, but as one underrepresented wetback motherfucker in the rundown country that is Argentina... I just gotta tell you to remain chill and judge GAMEs for their GAMEplay.

also heres some shit from the animation director from assassins creed 3 [img]https://24.media.tumblr.com/59089be6512fe80ba6615c2575ff3615/tumblr_n70i3shH2N1qh8mxzo1_1280.png[/img] [img]https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c2e8b07560472f73e2b2a99ee691bb3/tumblr_n70i3shH2N1qh8mxzo2_1280.png[/img] [img]https://31.media.tumblr.com/3299f254f733a6349c81ecdb3406d31e/tumblr_n70i3shH2N1qh8mxzo3_1280.png[/img] [img]https://31.media.tumblr.com/9d461b0669d5f1abd18344ec5add30c0/tumblr_n70i3shH2N1qh8mxzo4_1280.png[/img]

[snip wrong thread] Edit: Also sorry for the bump, I REALLY need to watch my tabs

Their only mistake was trying to justify this decision.

tbh I don't see anything wrong with a mostly male cast. Because it's typically guys who do this kind of thing. there's not anything sexist about it really. I feel it's just an issue being overly dramatized about when really it's not a big of a deal as they say about it. Although, the excuses they pull for it is really dumb, as far as animations go. Models textures and sounds are a different story, but with all the characters they're making, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. But if they just don't feel it's really worth it to do so, they I have no problem with it.

[QUOTE=Stiffy360;45087530]tbh I don't see anything wrong with a mostly male cast. Because it's typically guys who do this kind of thing. there's not anything sexist about it really. I feel it's just an issue being overly dramatized about when really it's not a big of a deal as they say about it. Although, the excuses they pull for it is really dumb, as far as animations go. Models textures and sounds are a different story, but with all the characters they're making, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. But if they just don't feel it's really worth it to do so, they I have no problem with it.[/QUOTE] As I'm sure that showed up on their execs researches, only a small portion of the people making a hassle of this buy the game.

Won't they just make a dozen female characters as dlc for the multiplayer like they did every other game? Not too much work then. I don't even mind, just this excuse is crummy.