[QUOTE=wraithcat;37067172]Considering he considers XP to be essentially perfect and Win7 only a slight improvement his wording is really questionable.
Sure it might not be entirely exciting to him as a traditional game developer. But it might be a huge giant thing for average consumers.
Which I think is really the difference. He's not looking at windows as a user, or as a consumer like most of us do. He's looking at it from the position of a traditional game developer.
You do know that WinRT is getting Dxlike apis as well? On top of that, while the xbox marketplace might be a mess, the marketplace the winRT one is modelled after, is the windowsphone marketplace. Which is pretty much nonproblematic and fairly without issues. Hell have you recently taken a look on stuff that's coming out for Windowsphone for apps? They get fairly normal 3d rendering and that without native code support. Which WinRT will have.[/QUOTE]
In the case of the marketplace, I'm referring to business practices, not functionality.
That WinRT has XNA functionality doesn't change it's metro mandate - do you see yourself playing something like Bastion in the Metro interface? Would that be the gaming experience you want?
[QUOTE=subenji99;37067464]In the case of the marketplace, I'm referring to business practices, not functionality.
That WinRT has XNA functionality doesn't change it's metro mandate - do you see yourself playing something like Bastion in the Metro interface? Would that be the gaming experience you want?[/QUOTE]
Considering games are, y'know, fullscreen, the only thing that would change is how you get to the game.
And honestly having Steam integrate into Metro would be cool.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37067427][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime[/url][/QUOTE]
And how does that affect the usability and functionality of the API?
[editline]3rd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37067380]lmao becuase directx10/11 definitely are windows 8 only[/QUOTE]
I should have clarified that I was pointing out the fact that id completely neglected Dx10 and 11 for Rage.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37066631][img]http://cf.shacknews.com/images/20120719/product_win8-startscreen_print_22801.nphd.jpg[/img]
Ugh.. Just look at it though.
Dropping the great GUI and interface that they've stuck with for years is a shitty decision and one I hope they regret a great deal so they don't attempt anything stupid like this again years down the line - after reverting to a simple, minimalist interface for Windows 9..[/QUOTE]
Meanwhile in 1995:
[QUOTE][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qeZOE.png[/IMG]
Ugh.. Just look at it though.
Dropping the great GUI and interface that they've stuck with for years is a shitty decision and one I hope they regret a great deal so they don't attempt anything stupid like this again years down the line - after reverting to a simple, minimalist interface for Windows 98..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ezhik;37067725]Meanwhile in 1995:[/QUOTE]
And the point doesn't even work since the GUI for 1995 is actually used in W8 like it is used in W7, Vista, Xp, Me and 98.
[QUOTE=dgg;37067759]And the point doesn't even work since the GUI for 1995 is actually used in W8 like it is used in W7, Vista, Xp, Me and 98.[/QUOTE]
I think his point is the introduction of the start button, which happened in '95
[QUOTE=garry;37067367]Complaining about metro is like saying
[img]http://puu.sh/OgLL[/img]
LOOK AT THAT! AWFUL WINDOWS VISTA SUCKS![/QUOTE]
I'd disagree. WMC =/= a significant, not forced portion of the entire OS, and not many tech illiterate people would know of it, let alone getting it to work with live TV.
Metro = a significant, forced portion of the entire OS. For tech illiterates, it'd be good, but supporting it would be a nightmare for IT people.
It's Microsoft's "tock" with Windows being shitty or not.
Windows 1.0 (good) > Windows 2.0 (crap) > Windows 3.1 (good) > Windows 95 (crap, though some would argue otherwise as being an exception) > Windows 98 (good, but crap pre-SE) > Windows 2000 (good) > Windows ME (crap) > Windows XP (good) > Windows Vista (crap) > Windows 7 (good) [b]> Windows 8 (crap)[/b].
Therefore, depending on how long Windows 9 takes to get developed, we'll either get some relief or a really long nightmare.
[QUOTE=Foda;37066781]You can write DirectX games in WinRT using c++ or c#(monogame is basically XNA for winRT).
[editline]3rd August 2012[/editline]
What's wrong with it/how would you change it?
I can see how many Facebook notifications I have, the weather, all my programs, any new events on my calendar, new messages, new emails, and the news. Its just the start screen, you have the regular desktop too.[/QUOTE]
But... all that is why I have a browser. If I wanted ~social integration~ I'd get a mac. I use my OS to launch and run programs. That's [I]it.[/I]
[QUOTE=Foda;37067802]I think his point is the introduction of the start button, which happened in '95[/QUOTE]
Windows 95 introduced the whole interface with the toolbar and start menu.
[QUOTE=MightyMax;37068363]But... all that is why I have a browser. If I wanted ~social integration~ I'd get a mac. I use my OS to launch and run programs. That's [I]it.[/I][/QUOTE]
Right, you could use your browser if you wanted to, but then you have to open a bunch of tabs and etc.
You'll be able to get apps (for example, one that tracks packages via UPS and tells you how many days until it arrives) which will be able to show you data and other stuff that you can't get in your browser. Another example, what about a Steam tile that showed you the newest Steam deals? I think that would be pretty neat. Or a Facepunch app that has its tile show you new PMs or replies.
[QUOTE=Foda;37067640]And how does that affect the usability and functionality of the API?
[editline]3rd August 2012[/editline]
I should have clarified that I was pointing out the fact that id completely neglected Dx10 and 11 for Rage.[/QUOTE]
never said it did but clearly you don't know very much about WinRT considering you're wrong about shit in the first paragraph on the wiki page.
and yeah they didn't use DirectX 10/11.. they used OpenGL.. which is still completely irrelevant to Windows 8..
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37066631][img]http://cf.shacknews.com/images/20120719/product_win8-startscreen_print_22801.nphd.jpg[/img]
Ugh.. Just look at it though.
Dropping the great GUI and interface that they've stuck with for years is a shitty decision and one I hope they regret a great deal so they don't attempt anything stupid like this again years down the line - after reverting to a simple, minimalist interface for Windows 9..[/QUOTE]
xbox dashboard: now for your pc !
Honestly, I don't care for Windows 8 because it's not really much of an improvement. Yeah, the performance may be a little better, but it's really just an updated and tablet-oriented 7 with altered interface. There's no distinct advantages 8 has over 7 to warrant a full-on switch.
And when [i]9[/i] comes out, if they keep this trend of only minorly improving the last version with some altered appearances and changes, i'm going to be making terrible 'seven ate nine' jokes.
[editline]3rd August 2012[/editline]
Also, to Foda's comment, while Carmack's preference for OpenGL has already been noted, there's also the fact that Windows 7 already has DirectX 10 and 11 support (as did Vista to a limited extent), so touting this [i]specifically[/i] for Windows 8 and calling a guy who knows his stuff out for not wanting to use it isn't quite.. Uh, agreeable.
Why use WinRT if the Win32 API works already?
[QUOTE=Foda;37068722]Right, you could use your browser if you wanted to, but then you have to open a bunch of tabs and etc.
You'll be able to get apps (for example, one that tracks packages via UPS and tells you how many days until it arrives) which will be able to show you data and other stuff that you can't get in your browser. Another example, what about a Steam tile that showed you the newest Steam deals? I think that would be pretty neat. Or a Facepunch app that has its tile show you new PMs or replies.[/QUOTE]
But the start screen is only seen when you require it. So it still has the same usability problem, you have to go to it to find out.
But you spend a lot more time on your browser, so a customized browser becomes way more useful than a hidden screen that you only likely to call when you need to launch an application.
I agree with Carmack, the new UI isn't exciting and other than that the improvements in 8 are almost paper thin compared to 7 to warant even 39.99$.
It just feels like this version of Windows lacks meaty improvements, other the Start Screen/Metro Apps which are useless on a desktop.
If I can dualboot it with Windows 7 I'll check it out, but other than that I'm not that interested in a change already.
[QUOTE=subenji99;37067464]In the case of the marketplace, I'm referring to business practices, not functionality.
That WinRT has XNA functionality doesn't change it's metro mandate - do you see yourself playing something like Bastion in the Metro interface? Would that be the gaming experience you want?[/QUOTE]
Isn't bastion on the Ipad? If yes, then I could see myself playing it in metro very easily.
Metro isn't a mandate. There's restrictions that applications must follow, and API limitations that it must follow as well.
But it's certainly not a UI limitation. If you want to make a non metro styled application for the metro interface, you are free to. It's just going to stick out like a sore finger.
Games obviously have different have different UI standards.
Tried Armed! on WP7 and Windows8 yet? Amazing 3d game. Or maybe assassin's creed, or perhaps mirror's edge?
I really don't see any problems. Obviously Metro applications will not be as full fledged as normal desktop applications. But they don't have to be. You aren't locked into metro on windows 8. You can continue using it like a start menu.
During the last several months of using windows 8 consumer preview, I have found it to be a very enjoyable experience. it is different, and knowing how people dislike change this does not sit well with most. I thought it would be awful, but its really not half-bad at all. As for the metro UI everyone complains about, I find it handy for checking E-Mail and searching for programs on my computer. All I have to do is click once and I'm viewing E-Mail, and when the Metro UI is open, all I do is type what I want to find and its there. Its a very handy tool.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37069560]never said it did but clearly you don't know very much about WinRT considering you're wrong about shit in the first paragraph on the wiki page.
and yeah they didn't use DirectX 10/11.. they used OpenGL.. which is still completely irrelevant to Windows 8..[/QUOTE]
I've been working with WinRT for the past 3 months developing apps for a pretty ....well known company. Trust me, it's nothing like the old COM (because everyone loves P/Invoke and remembering the correct COM GUID!). Try developing an application in WinRT, then try to do the same in Win32 (for example, an app that reads Facepunch's posts using garry's API).
[QUOTE=Jookia;37069899]Why use WinRT if the Win32 API works already?[/QUOTE]
Because the WinRT API lets you do neat stuff like share data between applications, provides an incredibly fast and fluid UI, etc. You also don't have to design for multiple screen sizes and ratios as WinRT automatically adjusts the layout of UI elements. Additionally, the UI thread runs async from the rest of your code, allowing UI elements to appear and animate without slowing down everything else. You can also 'roam' app settings and data, allowing you to save progress in games across devices and stuff.
[editline]3rd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;37070526]Isn't bastion on the Ipad? If yes, then I could see myself playing it in metro very easily.
Metro isn't a mandate. There's restrictions that applications must follow, and API limitations that it must follow as well.
But it's certainly not a UI limitation. If you want to make a non metro styled application for the metro interface, you are free to. It's just going to stick out like a sore finger.
Games obviously have different have different UI standards.
Tried Armed! on WP7 and Windows8 yet? Amazing 3d game. Or maybe assassin's creed, or perhaps mirror's edge?
I really don't see any problems. Obviously Metro applications will not be as full fledged as normal desktop applications. But they don't have to be. You aren't locked into metro on windows 8. You can continue using it like a start menu.[/QUOTE]
For example, Netflix would work really well in a Metro app.
[QUOTE=Foda;37070956]I've been working with WinRT for the past 3 months developing apps for a pretty ....well known company.[/QUOTE]
MacroHard?
[QUOTE=Foda;37070956]I've been working with WinRT for the past 3 months developing apps for a pretty ....well known company. Trust me, it's nothing like the old COM (because everyone loves P/Invoke and remembering the correct COM GUID!). Try developing an application in WinRT, then try to do the same in Win32 (for example, an app that reads Facepunch's posts using garry's API).
Because the WinRT API lets you do neat stuff like share data between applications, provides an incredibly fast and fluid UI, etc. You also don't have to design for multiple screen sizes and ratios as WinRT automatically adjusts the layout of UI elements. Additionally, the UI thread runs async from the rest of your code, allowing UI elements to appear and animate without slowing down everything else. You can also 'roam' app settings and data, allowing you to save progress in games across devices and stuff.
[editline]3rd August 2012[/editline]
For example, Netflix would work really well in a Metro app.[/QUOTE]
From what I've seen WinRT is pretty much a wrapper around WPF and the avarage Win32 API
And from what I've read they've basicaly introduced ref counted objects into C++, adding extra syntax, aka whyyy
I like object based APIs but this is getting somewhat rediclous
and I enjoyed being able to use C
Yeah yeah metro is all cool and pretty and whatever.
What I don't like is the fact that they're going to be pushing an app store and other gimmicky console/phone bullhshit into a PC, along with making it look like it belongs on a tablet. Forget a phone, a tablet, or even an Xbox, this is someone's personal computer were talking about here.
This steps over a line which really doesn't sit well for me, the line between prebuilt no-customization-allowed consoles and personal computers is now starting to blur, and the person doing it is Microsoft themselves.
This is why im frankly scared of this next iteration of Windows, if this OS is successful, you can bet your ass you'll see more of this kind of shit in the future, and im really not looking forward to having to buy desktop backgrounds because windows 10 decided to lock everything down for money.
And it also appears to be sugar coated COM anyways, with a bit of a wrapper, its still a pure mess on the inside and a hell to debug
[QUOTE=Ezhik;37067725]Meanwhile in 1995:[/QUOTE]
What? GUIs were barely even a thing before windows 95.
Does WinRT support OpenGL?
Hoping someone figures out a way or there is an option incorporated to just disable the Metro UI, i'm content with the good ol' desktop.
Who really cares what someone else says about a product. I think you should form your own opinions instead of jumping on someone elses bandwagon.
You know what, I dismiss all of your complaining. You all sound like a bunch of fucking old men who are scared as shit about a little bit of change. You're all the same people who bitch nonstop over YEWTUWB NEW LAYOUT ;(((( and OMG!!! timeline suxxx.
Shut the hell up please I'm tired of reading the same misinformed comments, spouting from the same retards who think OMGG DERE NO START BUTTUN OMG SUE MICROSHIT. You're all a bunch of fucking crybabies, and if everyone on this planet shared your same shitty attitudes then there would be no innovation.
ban me for flaming but jessu christ you sheeple really need to get your head out of your ass and try the product before making up a retarded ass opinion that you've gathered from some sensationalist headline.
[QUOTE=Dantai;37071851]Hoping someone figures out a way or there is an option incorporated to just disable the Metro UI, i'm content with the good ol' desktop.[/QUOTE]
[THUMB]http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/images/after.png[/THUMB]
[url]http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/[/url]
[QUOTE=uchiha2727;37070545]During the last several months of using windows 8 consumer preview, I have found it to be a very enjoyable experience. it is different, and knowing how people dislike change this does not sit well with most. I thought it would be awful, but its really not half-bad at all. As for the metro UI everyone complains about, I find it handy for checking E-Mail and searching for programs on my computer. All I have to do is click once and I'm viewing E-Mail, and when the Metro UI is open, all I do is type what I want to find and its there. Its a very handy tool.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what the start menu does now, only it doesn't eat up your whole screen.
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