• Carmack: Nothing exciting about Windows 8
    135 replies, posted
threads like this make me want to bash my eyeballs out of my sockets, the sheer stupidity of most of you puts me into a mild depression.
[QUOTE=Tobba;37071065]From what I've seen WinRT is pretty much a wrapper around WPF and the avarage Win32 API And from what I've read they've basicaly introduced ref counted objects into C++, adding extra syntax, aka whyyy I like object based APIs but this is getting somewhat rediclous and I enjoyed being able to use C[/QUOTE] Sorta, it IS written from scratch, and not actually based on anything. WinRT's XAML syntax is similar to WPF's so that those used to WPF won't have to relearn it. The main point of WinRT vs WPF is that WinRT is not balls-slow and includes HTML + Javascript (writing a GUI in HTML+JS, then using a C# backend is the best thing ever btw). I agree on the C++ side, that's always been an annoying mess. [QUOTE=Jookia;37071752]Does WinRT support OpenGL?[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, no (mainly because WinRT is hardware accelerated with DirectX). No WebGL either, which is a bummer. You can still make regular old programs for the desktop for Win8 though.
[QUOTE=jakedog;37072072]threads like this make me want to bash my eyeballs out of my sockets, the sheer stupidity of most of you puts me into a mild depression.[/QUOTE] Good luck trying to be smarter than Carmack, even though he might not be so informed about windows 8.
[QUOTE=Foda;37066781] What's wrong with it/how would you change it? I can see how many Facebook notifications I have, the weather, all my programs, any new events on my calendar, new messages, new emails, and the news. Its just the start screen, you have the regular desktop too.[/QUOTE] That's great for people who want to monitor a bunch of social networking stuff and such. Personally, the only live tiles I would find useful would be one for my email, and yea, that's about all. When I used one of the previews they released for windows 8, there was so much blank space because there's nothing I want to monitor (aside from my email, and that's accomplished by leaving a web browser up, which I would do either way). Besides, I don't want to be switching between the start menu and my desktop just to check if I have any new email messages or whatever. But, you know, it's whatever. I'm sure I'll adapt quickly enough. [QUOTE=Viper202;37066889]They've explained this so many fucking times. That's the replacement start menu UI, the classic explorer desktop is still there.[/QUOTE] Last I heard, there's no option to switch back to the old start menu, or to turn the start button back on, or to disable the charms bar (or whatever that thing on the right that pops up is called). Or to enable transparency again on the desktop for that matter. Sure, there will be various programs and patches, but they aren't existing options in Windows 8.
[QUOTE=Chernarus;37071967]Who really cares what someone else says about a product. I think you should form your own opinions instead of jumping on someone elses bandwagon.[/QUOTE] people are agreeing with someone who said something they agree with? form your own opinions you sheeple!
[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;37067979]I'd disagree. WMC =/= a significant, not forced portion of the entire OS, and not many tech illiterate people would know of it, let alone getting it to work with live TV. Metro = a significant, forced portion of the entire OS. For tech illiterates, it'd be good, but supporting it would be a nightmare for IT people. It's Microsoft's "tock" with Windows being shitty or not. Windows 1.0 (good) > Windows 2.0 (crap) > Windows 3.1 (good) > Windows 95 (crap, though some would argue otherwise as being an exception) > Windows 98 (good, but crap pre-SE) > Windows 2000 (good) > Windows ME (crap) > Windows XP (good) > Windows Vista (crap) > Windows 7 (good) [b]> Windows 8 (crap)[/b]. Therefore, depending on how long Windows 9 takes to get developed, we'll either get some relief or a really long nightmare.[/QUOTE] WMC was like an early concept of metro combined with aero, which created the fundamentals for the windows live era put in vista and 7, essentially this is microsoft changing their style to a more straight forward UI that looks cool and has a really nice modern feel to it. Microsoft has done a great job with metro IMO, it looks better than apple's design schemes and probably HTC's androids themes.
[QUOTE=Chernarus;37071967]Who really cares what someone else says about a product. I think you should form your own opinions instead of jumping on someone elses bandwagon.[/QUOTE] John Carmack is like the Godfather of modern game development. His opinion does mean something. But not to most people. His perspective is from the supply side as he's the one working with it to develop the experience.
people who obviously haven't given win8 an hour or two [B]first hand[/B] aren't entitled to an opinion on it, in my opinion. These are the ones you see bitching about stuff that you can see in screenshots, and saying retarded things and treating Metro as the only way to interact with Win8. The metro UI is sort of a tablet gimmick but it's still functional with a mouse and keyboard (I actually love the apps, and how their icons are "active" and I can have quick snippets of news and the weather and my feeds and e-mails as soon as I login, with no third party software invoved) and pretty and you're still one click away from your beloved classic desktop, minus the start button (and microsoft has introduced MANY alternatives to the start button ever since the fucking thing was introduced back in 95, like anchoring programs to the taskbar and, uh, iunno, SHORTCUTS) Windows 8 is for people who like it, want to stay on the cutting edge, want an OS that runs on an old computer and looks decent, or people who have a Microsoft Surface. I like it, and will likely be getting it, and I think developers should make sure their games work in the next installment of the world's most widely used operating system, even if it's not their main concern or if they don't particularly like the OS.
Metro is not a bad thing. I've heard of very few people using it properly. It's meant to be for activities where you don't compromise from having it full screen. Stuff like browsing the internet casually, messaging your friends, looking through your pictures. In Metro you can do this stuff more intuitively and more comfortably than on the desktop. Everybody benefits from it if you know how to use it. It's not gimmicky shit. It's just designed to [b]also[/b] work on a different form factor (tablets) as well as still working great with a mouse and keyboard. As he is a game developer, I can see Carmack not being overly interested as, game development wise, not much has changed. I just really want to see some developers actually utilizing Metro so I can play some games without switching to the desktop all the time. To clarify, there's nothing stopping AAA games coming to Metro. Basically, Windows 8 is great for consumers, just nothing new for game developers.
Yeah, you would say the same about Windows 7 too when all you use is OpenGL.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;37077674]Apple circa 1984 would like a word with you : [img]http://netdna.webdesignerdepot.com/uploads/2009/03/mac-os-1.gif[/img] [/QUOTE] Apple's top bar hasn't even changed..
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;37077780]Apple's top bar hasn't even changed..[/QUOTE] Well, you don't fix what's not broken do you now? W8 is the first the time since 1995 that the start menu button on the toolbar will be changed which pisses many of us off. So obviously it would be a bad thing if Apple changed their toolbar wouldn't it?
[QUOTE=dgg;37078093]Well, you don't fix what's not broken do you now? W8 is the first the time since 1995 that the start menu button on the toolbar will be changed which pisses many of us off. So obviously it would be a bad thing if Apple changed their toolbar wouldn't it?[/QUOTE] Well no I just found it cool that apple has stuck with that design, I don't know how else they could replace it without bringing the iPad like UI to it but it wouldn't work.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;37078587]Well no I just found it cool that apple has stuck with that design, I don't know how else they could replace it without bringing the iPad like UI to it but it wouldn't work.[/QUOTE] You seemed skeptic with your punctuations...
OSX is like a well made Linux distro. I love it.
so basically most of the people who think windows 8 sucks haven't used windows 8 and simply jump on the 'no start menu' and 'metro sucks' bandwagon
[QUOTE=DeandreT;37070490]If I can dualboot it with Windows 7 I'll check it out, but other than that I'm not that interested in a change already.[/QUOTE] It is possible to make it dualboot with Windows 7. I somehow managed to did that using some kind of boot-related application. I don't remember more details though, that was long time ago when RC became officially downloadable.
[QUOTE=pawelte1;37078866]It is possible to make it dualboot with Windows 7. I somehow managed to did that using some kind of boot-related application. I don't remember more details though, that was long time ago when RC became officially downloadable.[/QUOTE] use GRUB. Granted getting windows to play nice with anything in dual boot is kinda a pain since it has a habit of taking over the MBT without telling you... But its doable. You just gotta make each install of windows think its the only thing in the world, and it'll work just fine.
I actually agree with Carmack here. Am I interested in Windows 8? Sure, it's certainly a new direction for Microsoft and it is host to a lot of changes when compared to Windows 7. But do I find it exciting? Not so much. I have no plans to replace my install of Windows 7 with it, and while I've installed some of the preview releases of Windows 8 to play with, I've always ended up getting rid of them within a few days. A big start menu and flatter colours throughout don't really buzz me
So, is it possible to get Windows 8 and still use the normal desktop and taskbar? I mean, that picture of Windows 8 just looks like the Xbox menu. Ew.
[QUOTE=All0utWar;37079818]So, is it possible to get Windows 8 and still use the normal desktop and taskbar? I mean, that picture of Windows 8 just looks like the Xbox menu. Ew.[/QUOTE] Yes you can revert to a desktop mode that looks similar to windows 7's style.
[QUOTE=All0utWar;37079818]So, is it possible to get Windows 8 and still use the normal desktop and taskbar? I mean, that picture of Windows 8 just looks like the Xbox menu. Ew.[/QUOTE] You can't get Windows 8 without the normal desktop and taskbar. [QUOTE=Coffee;37080006]Yes you can revert to a desktop mode that looks similar to windows 7's style.[/QUOTE] You don't revert back because there is nothing to revert back to. The metro fullscreen thing with all your apps is the Start Menu, just that it's now a Start Screen instead. If you look at the Metro UI Start Screen you will notice there is a box called "Desktop". That's your standard normal Windows desktop like you know it, just without the Start Menu button.
Ill wait for whatever is after windows 8. Microsoft seems to have developed a pattern XP was amazing, Vista is shit, 7 is amazing, 8 doesnt look so good,
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;37080157]Ill wait for whatever is after windows 8. Microsoft seems to have developed a pattern XP was amazing, Vista is shit, 7 is amazing, 8 doesnt look so good,[/QUOTE] Not this bullshit again. While I am not going to switch to Win8, I am doing it for reasons that win8 offers nothing I need and everything is working right now and I don't want to risk breaking any software or otherwise. If I didn't do work on my pc I'd probably switch though. I did try the RC though. It's like win7 except a bit faster and has metro start menu. If you're waiting because "it might be shit because of a stupid pattern that was not even really true", then you're weird.
[QUOTE=jaybuz;37078777]OSX is like a well made Linux distro. I love it.[/QUOTE] Linux != Mach + BSD
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;37067142]It's basically wasted space central. It's much, much larger than the start menu since it's a fullscreen prompt, and manages to display [I]less[/I].[/QUOTE] Saying that the new start menu is simply wasted space is like the customer that that tells the web developer "Why can't we fill in more space with links??" - the old start menu was primarily a program launcher, but it evolved into search, and much of its significance was taken away with the super bar. The new start menu is still primarily a program laucher, but it's also an info outlet - it'll show a lot of information at once - emails, what song you're playing, appointments and so on - stuff that you can't access in Windows 7 with one click. Most people only have a few programs in their start menu anyway, and people use search like crazy. [editline]5th August 2012[/editline] And I would like to point out that I can see Windows 8 not bringing a whole lot of new stuff to the big developers, but I would say that it brings a whole lot to be excited about for the general customer.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37084017]Saying that the new start menu is simply wasted space is like the customer that that tells the web developer "Why can't we fill in more space with links??" - the old start menu was primarily a program launcher, but it evolved into search, and much of its significance was taken away with the super bar. The new start menu is still primarily a program laucher, but it's also an info outlet - it'll show a lot of information at once - emails, what song you're playing, appointments and so on - stuff that you can't access in Windows 7 with one click. Most people only have a few programs in their start menu anyway, and people use search like crazy. [editline]5th August 2012[/editline] And I would like to point out that I can see Windows 8 not bringing a whole lot of new stuff to the big developers, but I would say that it brings a whole lot to be excited about for the general customer.[/QUOTE] Not everyone has little in their Start Menu. And I don't fucking want anything fancy covering up my whole screen slugging down my workflow. I avoid Macintosh for a reason. Why couldn't they give us a Start Screen AND A START MENU? [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3655193/MyStartMenu.png[/img]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37084017]Saying that the new start menu is simply wasted space is like the customer that that tells the web developer "Why can't we fill in more space with links??" - the old start menu was primarily a program launcher, but it evolved into search, and much of its significance was taken away with the super bar. The new start menu is still primarily a program laucher, but it's also an info outlet - it'll show a lot of information at once - emails, what song you're playing, appointments and so on - stuff that you can't access in Windows 7 with one click. Most people only have a few programs in their start menu anyway, and people use search like crazy. [editline]5th August 2012[/editline] And I would like to point out that I can see Windows 8 not bringing a whole lot of new stuff to the big developers, but I would say that it brings a whole lot to be excited about for the general customer.[/QUOTE] But why would I want a search menu to open in fullscreen?
[QUOTE=garry;37067367]Complaining about metro is like saying [image] LOOK AT THAT! AWFUL WINDOWS VISTA SUCKS![/QUOTE] I'm not paying hundred+ dollars for the same old shit but without the start menu.
[QUOTE=borisvdb;37085054]I'm not paying hundred+ dollars for the same old shit but without the start menu.[/QUOTE] Everything is improved in Windows 8. How is that for a reason. And upgrading it was what? 40 bucks? Less than a game.
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