About masks and armor.

Hey, just saw the latest blog post about “real” armor and masks that would obscure your vision.

I think it would be great to have interactions possible with your mask ( wiping it, lifting it on forehead, opening/closing stuff ) without going in the menu, and unequipping it.

I’ve always loved first person masks ( Metro 2033/Last Light, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Misery Mod… ), but I confess that having your vision obscured it something rather irritating if there isn’t a natural, easy way, of clearing the vision temporarly.

Also, while i’m at it, isn’t the reason that medieval knight armor stopped being used was because of gunpowder weaponry, and how they weren’t enough of a protection against it ?

I think it’s a great opportunity to start establishing tiers in ammunition : low quality bullets won’t have enough puncturing power to go through some light steel plate, but higher quality ones ( or bigger guns ) would punch right through.

I also think that bullet deflection should occur at some angles ( leading to some awesome ricochets everywhere ), but direct hits should have more “puncturing power” and more chance to go through and cause bleeding.

Oh, and last note : the first Call of Juarez had the “action” protagonist, Ray, have a medieval chestplate during his western gunfights, and it would passively block bullets that connect to his chest hitbox. It’s one of the best “active” armor i’ve seen in a first person game, which contrasts a lot with other games ( i’m looking at you, Skyrim… ). Make sure to check it out for some inspiration.

Keep up the good work !

Knights during the medieval times actually did not use heavy armour frequently during battles, and were only typically used during public events of honour such as jousting and sparring.

Chainmail was necessary to wear underneath heavier armours, as it allowed air flow, and also helped catch arrows that punctured the armour itself. But a lot of times, actual armour was just too restrictive, and the chainmail was used by itself in battle more often than not.

Realism is not too huge of a factor in Rust, but metal armour on bare skin/thin cloth would not exactly be the best time for our Newmans when exposed directly to the sun for extended periods of time. Honestly, over this aspect of the game, I think they should just focus on leatherworking instead of metalcrafting, when it comes to personal defense, at least.

Would be cool to have to wear gas masks in Radtowns a la Metro.

Kevlar blocks bullets better than leather AND metalcrafting, and it existed long before most people think it did.

You must remember two critical points:

  1. Kevlar degrades as it ages, rendering it utterly useless after enough time has passed. Admittedly, this is a slow process, and takes years.

  2. The high-composite materials used in Kevlar are actually very brittle, and cannot stand against much more than basic ammo types such as 9mm, or the pellets found in shotgun shells. High-powered calibers and armour-piercing rounds cut clean through Kevlar - although Kevlar is very effective against hollow-points.

Of course, I digress again in the face that Rust is not really meant to be ultra-realistic.

just for the sake of interest, kevlar has incredible tensile strength, but is practically worthless against blades and being pierced; that’s why most body armour combines metal plates with kevlar weave.

Still though, I wouldn’t mind at least some craftable chainmail for basic protection against arrows or blunt weapon strikes from a rock.

Chainmail is of a complex design for someone without prior blacksmithing skills, but is not outside of the realms of possibility/suspension of belief. I think it would be rather interesting to see as well.

maybe someone will come up with a medieval mod of sorts with replacement armours, more suitable melee weopons and removal of modern gear:)

hint hint

Like Chivalry Medieval Warfare you mean? That would be awesome, building your own castle (entering each room, not possible in Chivalry) and defending it with swords and stuff. I can’t wait!

Ok a few wrong things are being said on here.

Firstly there were knights who wore full plate metal into battle. Yes there were less of them, but this is simply because it was very expensive to make and took a long time to train in. As for chainmail being easier to move in, this is completely untrue when you take into account articulated platemail. Articulated platemail only weighs you down and it’s not to much more then chainmail but it allows you full articulation of the main joints.

Secondly they still wore metal breastplates with a very convex chest for quite some time to deflect very large and powerful ammunition. Remember back in the black powder ages they would load quite heavy large lead balls with large amounts of gunpowder actually making the guns used then more powerful then many used today.

Thirdly kevlar isn’t as amazing as most people think it is. Look up testing videos of it and you’ll see that it only really stops lower caliber lower speed rounds. Once you start reaching weapons like the AK47 and the P90 the Kevlar gets shredded. To make up for this two things have been done. One is to keep the light weight maneuverability they put a ceramic plate in the back of the Kevlar. The problem with this is once the plate is broken you’re SOL. To make up for this an armor called dragon hide was made. This one contains scales of ceramic overlapping so if one gets hit it spreads it but only shatters a few leaving the majority intact. Now secondly to counteract high caliber sniper rounds they put in about a half inch metal plate. This stops most anything short of anti vehicle weapons like a 50cal.

Another thing to remember about Kevlar is it may stop the bullet from going inside of you but people still would die using it in the wild after having a rip broken and slammed into the lung/heart.

Now back to the main post on the forum. Yes the idea of being able to pull a face mask down to make yourself look scary or pull a visor down to protect you from one thing or another would be amazing BUT as it was stated you can’t have this go to far. You should be given a hotkey that removes the helmet into your hands while nothing is held OR flips it up making you more vulnerable BUT making it so you can see what you are doing. Knights didn’t run around everywhere with the mask down or even the helmet on. It wasn’t till they reached the enemy that they lowered the visor…then again they didn’t have to worry about the guy over on sniper hill headshotting him. This is why since semiautomatic weapons have been in play we haven’t used visors. You just need the vision when range is the majority of combat.

I know he was banned, but I guess I will address the points made anyhow:

  1. You just reiterated what I already said: Plate armour was worn in battle, but it was not a common sight for a myriad of reasons, such as weather, injuries, breed of horses, and the equipment of their enemies. Heavy armour fatigues the fighter, and is often more detrimental than anything.

  2. You wear chainmail under full plate armour. There is really no ambiguity there, and still does not discount the fact that chainmail was commonplace by itself in battle, and was much more widely used than full armour.

  3. Not sure what time-period you are thinking of - in the medieval times of knights, primitive guns such as muskets and handcannons were not yet founded. Gun powder did exist, to an extend, but guns did not. Maybe you are thinking of the Spaniards, who were well known to wear metal breastplates to protect themselves against guns? In that case, I still refer to the fact that full-platemail over a couple independent pieces was not practical then, and neither is it now.

And your point still stands, Large metal breastplates had some weight on them, and definitely would have held an experienced swordsman down, because sword fighting also relies on agility. Were the Spaniard’s metal breastplates lighter than those found during the medieval period?

presumably a little lighter, the forging techniques and steel quality had improved quite a bit by then, so it didn’t have to be as thick, and articulated parts were better designed.

Yes - numerous alloys were discovered which were both lighter and more durable by the time of Spaniard Imperialism. There is a huge difference between metals such as iron and brass, compared to metal alloys such as steel.