Currently it is very easy to make bases that can’t be raided or to wall off sections of the maps or rad towns. I was thinking this could be solved by allowing only twig structures to be built when in an area that has build restrictions. This would allow raiders to gain access to bases that have vulnerable upper levels or to create bridges to bases that are built on the water. However the raiders wouldn’t be able to ruin someone’s base by blocking off doors or adding ceilings/walls that can’t be easily destroyed. It also leaves the raiders vulnerable to someone who is actively defending their base as they can easily destroy the twig structures.
i’d sooner get rid of the whole exclusion zone to be honest.
Until someday you will find yourself blocked inside your house by stone block or walls carefuly placed next to your door by some hilarious raider.
nah. then i’ll smash down one of my crappy walls, make it my new door and laugh at the dumb bugger who gave me a free wall or 10;)
Unless you find yourself locked into a stone 1 x 1 and find most of the halls, doors, etc in your base blocked off the same way. It’s been happening a lot since the demolish function was removed.
I’ve done it to a group of guys break into and take over an outpost my group had built. We blew our way into their base with a C4 charge, killed them in their sleep, encased their sleeping bags in stone 1 x 1s, blocked off hallways, etc with stone walls, etc.
But the short of it is that without any exclusion zone, anyone would be able to do this to any base at any time. I won’t argue for or against the tool cupboard as being the ideal solution, but there needs to be some way to prevent this kind of stuff from happening, or else the game basically becomes built for griefers at the expense of players.
That’s a big no, easily said. That brings you back to the start and makes all patches in between completely useless.
Currently there’s enough bug abusing already to get a house raided and that’s even more (arm) easier due to the low HP bars and C4 being back in use.
there will always be hackers of some sort, and always be asshole griefers with nothing better to do. last night i found myself killed more by fellow newspawns for my rock than by kitted players. but that is part of rust, for better or worse. we shouldn’t impose literal limits where possible; if someone has the time and resources to build a stone 1x1 around you, that sucks, but you should have been better defended. it shouldn’t come down to having a forcefield generator hidden away.
the number of times i got griefed in legacy was pretty small, and often occurred because i A) had a large base that looked inviting or B) had baited the hell out of someone, either in chat or by killing them. (and to be clear, IMO building onto a base to raid it shouldn’t be called griefing; that’s tactically sound. things like blocking off doorways, stairwells etc with the intention of just fucking with a player is poor form, and those people should not last long on a server.) i think part of the reason it’s come back so hard is that they haven’t been able to do it for a while. give them time, it will settle a bit as they get bored of it. or go to a well moderated server that will ban people who grief more than they play.
For that instance just make it so instead of having a exclusion zone make it so the owner of that zone can easily remove any foreign structures built by other players who don’t have build permission + maybe even allow the owner of that zone to collect the materials that went into making these structures.
They JUST removed the demolish function because it was exploitable.
This is a really unique take on it though. I like it, but it needs work.
Mrknifey you have a wonderfully optimistic view of the average gamer but I desperately hope facepunch doesn’t listen to you on this one. Just because you have personally had good luck with griefers doesn’t mean it’s everyone’s experience. I’ve seen enough griefers in other games to know that if there’s a method to troll other players, no matter how seemingly benign the act is, those players will MERCILESSLY use it to their delight. There needs to be hardcoded rules and it doesn’t even matter how its done, as long as there is something. This is not an area to leave to emergent gameplay; player numbers will drop significantly if it is I promise you.
Hes the kind of guy with a peaceful happy smile on his face as he happily hits you with a rock while radiating sparkles, rainbows and farting fairy floss.
You or who ever gets access to your tool cabinet still can’t demolish your own structures, only structures that have been built after the tool cabinet has been activated(taken a snap shot of the area it covers) get tagged as something the owner can easily demolish at will.
Personally i feel anything that is built and snap shotted should cost the same amount of resources to demolish as it would cost for a raider to destroy it.
my point is the cupboard didn’t exist to protect me in legacy, and it still rarely happened to me. sure, some people have worse luck with dickheads on the server, but it doesn’t mean that we need forcefields to protect everyone; especially if they can be used to grief players. we need good admins to ban the assholes who do it.
“the path we take to avoid our fate is often where we meet it.”
pyrovision. “mrknifey is best friends with you!!!”
As a reminder to Garry to include this feature in game in nearest update.
Allow twig structures to be constructed without building permisions! Cupboards should block only upgrade permissions.
a) It takes a little time to implement. Just add some checks to code.
b) Its experimental version, let’s experiment and get a feedback.
c) It solves most of building vs raiding problems…
- We could legally raid any building not using glitches anymore.
- We will not prefer to build only on rocks or water, because it will not make our base more secure.
- We will not build only twig ladders and destroy them, because it will not make our base more secure.
- Cupboards will still protect us from griefing, twigs are very easy to destroy.
And i think:
- Twig structures should be more expensive while upgrade from twig to other tiers should be cheaper.
- Lifetime of twigs should be limited. It should rot.
I actually… really like this idea. I am guessing though, that the team already has some fix in mind for the issues that this addresses. If they do not though, this seems like a really great fit.
i find myself torn here. i don’t think that one type of building block should be exempt from the cupboards exclusion zone, but i would like the exclusion zone removed entirely, which would of course include the twig level. and it’s not a bad solution since twig gear has 10hp so would be weak for griefing, but sufficient for raiding.
in regards to rot, i think decay (when implemented) should apply to all tiers of building, at the same rate. so a twig building lasts minutes/hours while an armoured building lasts days/weeks without repair.
Seemed to work in legacy just fine, just dont be a tard about building your house
I like the cupboard exclusion zone. It’s like your claim on that bit of land. If raiding only happened while you were online then it wouldn’t be needed. But it does not. I’m guessing 90% of raids happen while a person is logged off. It’s like playing Dark Souls, only when you exit the game there is a chance an invader can still murder you (and steal everything in your inventory). Dark Souls is hard but the deaths feel fair or at least like a learning experience. Being raided in RUST while offline, with no trace, no way of knowing who, and likley left with no base to come back to either, just feels… cheap? Like you’ve been cheated.
What does the ability to build up to your base have to do with whether or not you’re online? You can still be raided while you’re offline even with the magic exclusion zone, unless you build on rocks or water.
Some of the people who disagreed with this idea did so because they believe, as I do, that the exclusion zone should just GTFA completely. But we’ve been waiting a long time for this temporary stopgap to get phased out, and yet here we still are. The rest seem to be clinging to the notion that the cupboard is “raid-protection” and thus a ticket to people who want to build and feel secure.
Facepunch has a preference for putting things out there and “seeing how they go”, seeing what the players do. Like 3PV. So… make the exclusion zone a server option with three settings: Full, Partial (twig only) and Disabled. Purists can find servers with active admins and take their chances with the occasional griefer, and everyone else can choose what level of training wheels they think feels the most fun.