Backing up GMod

Garry’s posted some things on his blog, that inevitably are going to lead to GMod’s demise. He posted such things as ‘making console friendly’ and ‘how mad would everyone be if i broke spawnlists’.

Is there any way to back up gmod in the current state it’s in and be able to run it in the future? Obviously won’t work in mp, but just to keep the game in a playable state.

Garry nearly killed gmod with the ep2 engine (if you disagree, then you weren’t around in those times). He constantly does nothing but shit on the builders, which are at lest over half the percentage of players in gmod (look at the gmod server list). He wants to completely fuck over the game just to add some shiny models from portal 2, just like with the orange box.

I mean no disrespect in this post- I’m just stating my opinion that Garry is repeating the past and is turning into a typical greedy game developer, caring only of money, and not of the community.

ps, to lay in detail of the so called destruction of gmod when the ep2 engine came, here’s some things that were introduced:

-Capping of server net capability (rate, cmdrate and updaterate were capped by valve on garry’s request to 30,000, which is insufficient. normal rates could be run as high as 85,000. this rate is what causes you to lag by network means and is what makes contraptions jerk around under lag.

-RSO, or reliable snaphsot (yes snaphsot) overflow, or when a player joins, and is sent all entity information at once, which will cause the client to crash when too many props/entities are present (around 400 props). Instead of actually fixing it by a means of progressive data transmission, he made it worse.

-Instability (not to say it wasn’t stable before, it’s better now than it was after the patch)

-General performance reduction. Servers cannot handle as much as they could before because of the memory and network capping. If you know about building, back then servers could handle multiple 1,000+ constraint, all welded moving contraptions with little lag. Now GMod can barely support multiple 150 constraint, parented moving contraptions.

I have played this game for many, many years, and played every spectrum of it, and I am watching the game die.

I forgot to mention that garry has issues- despite the fact that people paid money for the game, if you throttle him on any subject, he will simply respond as “well if you keep on about it, I won’t do anything.” Refer to his title to back this up.

I will try to talk with some somethingawful members to get more information.

[editline]3rd August 2011[/editline]

either that or he’s trolling

the spawnlists were fucked up for maybe a couple of days on transition to orangebox? get over yourself.
how the hell is adding portal two content, “shitting over the building community”? its exactly the opposite.

RSO errors are caused by the information for all of those props and entitys being sent when the player first joins, notice how you never get RSO errors during normal gameplay? this is because of the (obviously) already slow connection process probably cant take loading those props all huddled around the spawn at the same time, this is why you build away from spawn.

Servers can handle plenty. Im not sure what you are whining about with 150 constraints only, most servers (even my own rinky dinky box) can handle atleast 10k. as for myself, the only killer is ragdolls. otherwise it runs smooth even with complicated constrained contraptions.

as for the up/dn rates capped at 30k, I honestly have no idea myself why this was. (although I think I remember a post from garry explaining it.)

You seriously seem to be suffering from a case of buttanger, probably from not saving and then having a crash.
And if you seriously want to back garrys mod up, save the GCF file somewhere and if the game updates just replace it with yours and play in offline. it WILL update if you go online.

do you even know what you’re talking about

firstly, you obviously weren’t a builder of any caliber or even playing gmod in 2008, secondly, you have no idea what an RSO error is

how would I build away from spawn if I can’t join a server due to an RSO error

RSO happens only when joining a server and there are over 400 props present anywhere on the server that is in the spawn’s visgroup (ie visible to the player, even if they are behind the player)

obviously rsoing is a problem as it prevents people from joining. you can get the error even after joining if your computer hangs up for a second, such as an overloaded adv. dupe folder, someone loading something laggy, anything. RSOing has nothing to do with internet connection, your computer, or the server, only the game.

For starters, explain how switching to the portal 2 version of source, or simply adding portal 2 content, would screw it all up.

sorry, forgot to explain since you weren’t around in 2008, basically, the ep2 engine change vastly ruined a lot of things permanently in gmod, most notably, stability and server performance.

the reason the 30k cap was employed is because garry was too lazy to introduce a progressive data transmission system (ie, fix RSOing), so instead, he just shit on the builders. He has a reputation for doing this.

the point is, garry is notorious for breaking things and shitting on the largest percentage of players in the game, has done so in the past, and is repeating it.

I did not play gmod until march 09, correct, however I lurked these forums on and off since 07; I saw what happened.

In my personal experience, which Im sure you’ll throw out the window in a moment, I have only had RSO errors when the props were close to the spawn, most build maps are quite large and when people spread out I wont render them until a halfsecond after I spawn, in the end I dont have them until its a cluttered spawn.

That does ring a bell about the cap, the reason I said what I did about RSO is because of how infrequent and conditional they are for me; I thought it was the same for everyone else as well.

RSOing is a large problem for not only builders, but mappers as well. some rp maps can have loads of props, and have a low tolerance for the amount of props players can spawn. as I said before, the rso kicks in around 400 props. If a map contains upwards of 100 props or so, and it’s a 30 slot rp server with build rights, then you do the math.

i’m sure it’s anything but the build community that sparked garry to even consider fixing it- it had to have come from some other spectrum of gmod.

RSO can never really be fixed. There has to be some way to give clients the info, and there really is no efficient way.

Nah, it’s a pretty constant problem on servers that regularly field 100+ prop contraptions. Not to say I build like that, but some people do.

The rate cap was a TF2 introduction to level the playing field with people who understood the network side of Valve’s multiplayer games, and to also alleviate some of the server stress that operators had to deal with. After TF2 was out for a few months, a rate cap of 30,000 was introduced and all of those commands were limited or simply put, do nothing. Beforehand, you could up your transmission rate by using the rate command in console, and it was fairly common to do so. Before then, it was up to the servers to instate a fixed rate for the entire server, some, such as “randoM” build used a horrifically low rate cap of 9,000 or so, and you could really feel the difference.

Anyways, I’d like to preserve the current construction environment that I enjoy, and the statements he makes are a little worrying. I’ll probably deal with it if it gets broken to shit, but it’d be nice if he looked into some of the things that were broken since the orange box update. I’m not expecting him to fix the RSO error, as that’s pretty much cooked into the damn game. However, I’d like him to look into fixing the rate cap issue, and maybe look into the queryphys module. I remember some sort of chicken and egg scenario involving queryphys where garry wouldn’t include it because it didn’t have clientside prediction, but at the same time garry was the only person who could implement such a system.

Seriously, I wouldn’t mind him breaking everything if he threw us a bone every once in a while - a rate cap increase doesn’t just help builders, it would probably benefit any sort of high-playercount, high-entity server, be it various Roleplaying servers or other unique gamemodes that are stuck in development due to network load. We’re still screwing around with netcode from 2004, and it assumes the fastest connection we have is an ISDN line capped at 1 MBPS, which isn’t really the case anymore.

there’s a very logical way. If something can’t handle a wall of dicks to the face all at once, then just introduce the wangs progressively. This is how adv. dupe was fixed in the beginning.

Just introduce the data smoothly and progressively. it’s very simple. I would rather wait a little while longer to load than crash or not be able to join.

Speaking of adv dupe, why not have all props on the server “spawn” for the joining player? Say a man joins a server, there are 100 props present in front of him. Why not have them all render at around 10-50 props per second?

Do you just have an obsession with keeping old things Amplar?

You’re still running xp.

Updates are good, Im sure garry wouldnt release something that made over half the community unhappy.

RSO pisses me off, as does buffer overflow in net message.
Also, Garry was fucking with you, he wasn’t serious with the console thing or spawnlists.

“if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”

but are you kidding me? over the years he’s released tons and tons of updates that make the community unhappy. in fact, almost every update upsets a lot of people. Garry is usually good about fixing things now, but it was a lot worse a few years ago. I’m one of the only people who stands up to him, and I have been banned many times for it.

XP is broke…incredibly broke. It’s funny, my dual core laptop runs better on Windows 7 than it does on XP…and it was designed for XP.

Not to mention the complete lack of any chance of improvement.

Yes, GMOD gets a lot of updates that make you pissed off, but eventually you learn to deal with it.

The only exception in my case is that fucking buffer overflow and RSO

We’re mostly discussing RSOs and other ingrained problems that have shown up since the Ep2/orangebox update. If his new update is going to break a bunch of shit, but doesn’t offer anything for people who still use sandbox, it seems like a rough deal.

I don’t care that the spawn menu was broken for 2 days following an update, nor do I care about the TF2 F2P update that broke gmod for a weekend. These things are minor, and pass rather quickly. The bigger problem I have is with things like the rate cap, or RSOs, or buffer overflow in net message (fixed w/ myinfo_bytes 1024 in console, by the way. Once again, voice comms have progressed significantly since 2004, so using the default 128 is kind of dumb.) They detract from the game itself, and shrink available design space in the multiplayer portion of garrysmod.

That’s the thing, old contraptions built by such standbys as madcow (walking fortresses, et. al.) used to be possible in GMOD Multiplayer, despite using a lot of constraints and props. However, now, you have to rely more upon parenting (not a default tool), setting weights properly (not a default tool), and streamlining your contraption by eliminating excess entities (such as thrusters, hoverballs, et. al.) Up to this point, I’ve acknowledged that this slimming down of my contraptions by relying more upon CPU-heavy entities such as expressions is an overall boon, but I can’t help but imagine what it would be like to have an environment post-austerity with all these wonderfully streamlined contraptions. I can only think it would be almost magical.

Then again, it might not even be possible. I’d love to hear from garry himself about the rate cap, or RSOs, or any of that junk, and see whether or not he could institute any sort of change within Valve’s code to return the same functionality that we had pre-OB.

Yeah i guess, I think he said the update was for him somewhere.

Still you should switch to win7 :X Microsoft are going to stop updating it soon.

2013 support for Windows XP grinds to a complete halt. At the moment, game developers are starting to say, “Fuck XP.” and simply develop for DirectX 10 / 64 bit. 32 bit is becoming a thing of the past.

garry is just going to end up making sandbox a thing of the past. making server incapable of handling the simplest contraption, then the only gamemode that will be hosted will be ttt along with other shitty gamemodes that no one gives a fuck about.

rated funny.

No. It runs fine. I use it too. It’s a nice operating system for what I do - work + a little gaming. I’ll upgrade when I need/want to.