If you are a Rust Server Administrator you will be able to keep reported cheaters/hackers out of your server by using a community-driven ban list. Let the witch hunt begin! (as someone said on the other topic lol). It will be fun I swear, when you see those people’s faces QQing they did nothing and then seeing the well fundamented report with them flying around the map and killing 50 players in less than two seconds with the force like Neo (well probably not like that but you get it).
This by no means is an ultimate system to clear your server from cheaters/hackers, the usage of the list (when available) is your decision, I can’t do much, but whatever I can do to help is better than doing nothing. This system is just an alternative of players wanting to share their REAL bans to help the non-cheating / non-hacking community have a fair play. As the advantage obtained by these programs is gamebreaking, so while FacePunch works on these we can start this up as a community-based solution, being it temporal or permanent, it does not really matter as long as we keep it fair for those that want to keep it fair. Lets hope FacePunch solves these issues, however as from my MMO experience, cheaters and hackers will always roam around, being alpha, beta, final release.
FacePunch, I sent a ticket asking if it was ok to develop the website, pretty much got a copy-paste message with no reply at all asking to send a new ticket. If you have time please review it if it’s ok I will keep working on it, the ticket is MAD56RHP9KKKYC2C94.
My twitter:@yamgames, will be using the hashtag #RustBL and #RBL depending on message length.
If you find an error please send me a private message through this forum. Please don’t post it on twitter for Chocolate’s sake, as it could open up exploits or break the system. I mean yes I want you to try to break it and inform me about errors you find, but not in the hackery way lol.
Systems to test:
Suggestions and comments:
If it’s a comment or a simple suggestion send it on twitter, or here whatever
If it’s a report please send a private message.
If it’s a big suggestion or a big comment, post it here xD don’t want to deal with messages that look like telegrams lol.
Change Log: A change log will be created on the site, but I will keep this post updated as well.
Some funny data:
Rust Ban List has obtained over 1.5k page views (from where?! LOL I mean, there were like 5 public pages), yet it has not been released.
Most visits come from USA and Argentina.
USA users are looking for Rust Ban List, while all of Argentina is looking for PS3 Games, XBOX Games, Beauty tutorials, and idk what else O_o (don’t ask me, that’s what I see on google lol)
81 unique Steam IDs have been stored, 19 of those are VAC banned users.
PS: If you are not a server admin, you won’t be able to ban/report anyone and if you are and you do it as you mentioned the only thing you will get is a “Sorry, your account was suspended on June 6th 6666, Reason: Dat video editing”
Tell you the truth, I like the idea of the banlist, but it won’t work for me because I’m not going to spend my hours editting videos just so 5 other people can confirm what I have seen with my own eyes.
I just don’t have the hours in the day to do that… so hopefully I can just download your confirmed list of hackers and also keep banning the 10-20 a day I ban myself, because I visually confirm they are hacking.
Not familiar with how the system works, but that guy is right. What would stop someone from just editing the video or changing their names to get somebody banned?
Seems like ridiculous lengths to go to, but considering how many hackers there are, I’m sure people will try. So how could you actually tell?
And if you use the community to help dtermine if somebody has been wrongly banned, how can you take some people’s word over video evidence? Because on the flip side of that, a legit hacker could get banned and have a bunch of buddies vouch for him.
The hacks in current Circulation guaranteed are aimbots, ESP and Teleporting… Teleport user in air Take Screenshot
Look hes hacking Give screenshot and steamid
User gets headshot
Look hes hacking
User looks at a wall
Must be ESP Screenshot Ban.
Like the most obvious hacks are patched or being patched so everything else is at the discretion of the admin… And every other community has to take their word for it…
That flaw being chief because, a badmin doesn’t even have to publicly known as a badmin to be badmin then use this list to their advantage.
look at this scenario;
badmin gets killed by random dude while playing. random dude was playing legit, was not hacking. badmin gets hurt about it to the point he not only bans random dude from his server, but adds random dude’s name to this list, and never speaks a word about it (i.e. never brags about banning random dude, never mentions random dudes name in global chat, etc). now random dude, who is entirely innocent is banned on a boat load of servers who are using this global blacklist, even though he did nothing wrong. all because of one badmin.
Of course there are many other flaws to the system, but that right there is the one that is going to cause way too many headaches, from false positives, to badmins to who knows what I guarantee a lot of innocent people will get on that list in some fashion. Sure you could have someone review each and every name but last time I looked at the server browser there was around 20,000+ people playing in my local prime time, assuming that’s the middle of an average you could be looking at 50,000+ or better people to review. And considering the game is selling like hotcakes there’s a ton of people, with more new every day, so some kind of review system seems less and less likely for each individual user on that list.
So yea, too many flaws in the system. It’s much appreciated someone would take the time to do something like this but as stated, even with the best intentions the system can be gamed too easily.
Woa so many questions haha, okay here it goes one by one.
Fair enough, yes the list will be public and will be updated automatically when a confirmed ban gets in or when a denounce is accepted a ban will be lifted, it will all depend on how many times you update your list / week/month to keep it updated.
Edit - Suggestion: May I suggest live streaming? You can simply highlight a video and it will automatically upload it to your youtube channel (speaking of twitch.tv), takes less time than editing and rendering a video
I never said bans were permanent did I? That’s why there will be a denounce system, that’s why the bans are not applied when the admin adds an entry and requires people to vote for it. If the administrator uploaded a fake video (if they can actually sync correctly a video to fool atleast 5 other members) then the user will be able to denounce the entry, after reviewing (community) the evidence the ban will be lifted or will remain. As mentioned a single member can only get 5 false bans maximum, however, if users report this “admin”, which in this case would be a liar. He/she will end up banned from the system, and the ban of the reported user will be lifted.
Note that people can put input in every review, if you know the reporter is a “badmin”, call it out, they can’t do anything against that. It’s a fair play for Admins and Legit Players. What would happen if there was a list of “bad apple” admins made public? I could do that, it would affect their reputation as well as their server for administration power abuse. That would indeed be fun to do.
Proofs must speak by themselves, a single picture is easy to be edited, I mean… I am a graphic designer. But that’s when the community participates, it is inviting not only admins to report bad players, but also inviting players to report bad admins by speaking up on the comments area.
No cheating proofs = entry being rejected by the community, as mentioned on the first post, if a user reports the admin that added him/her and the entry had no documented proofs, simply I have to edit a single number to apply a suspension on the administrator’s account. And not only that, as voters are also logged people that voted for a false ban will also be affected by this back stab feels wave.
There will be many doing this, but I am already anticipating what they could do. Thought of the images / fake videos that’s why I am making a denounce system. Oh and also works for other admins, if an admin is suspended due to rejected entries (and they were well documented) those who affected this user will end up being suspended.
An administrator hates cheaters/hackers as much as legit players hate admins abusing their commands. The system is in no ones side, I just chose to let admins register as they are easier to controll than allowing everyone mass flood the report system.
There are like 1000 players / 1 admin, so yeah I rather look up what 1 admin is doing over 1000 players (estimate, exagerated, not real numbers.)
Hope this answered all your questions, if you have suggestions please let me know.
Note that the system at first will be a bit of a chaos, but as we start purging bad administrators adding false bans we will end up with a nice ban list.
This likely will be abused. The last project behind it was pretty screwed in no time with legitimate players being reported.
To top that, honestly… it doesn’t collect information via a plugin on servers, etc. So, to be truthful… this will be abused to all hell and back.
If you really want to make this, wait until they incorporate some sort of anti-cheat other than VAC that actually detects cheat signatures and bans instantly. When that’s done, make an API hook into the actual file that reads it, and updates it to a website hosted database like PBBANS does. That is about the only time it will realistically… work at all.
Other than that, no offense, but it’s too early for this. Glad you’re attempting, but those are some tidbits to think about before you notice that legitimate players come running to you going “WTF IS THIS SHIT?!”
This will be great. With children having access to credit cards, spawning massive bases, and then banning people who mention it and then adding them to the banlist, there is no way this could fail. Hackers will buy Rust again and again and again and again, but they’d NEVER think to admin a server to get people blacklisted from a massive amount of community server for the kicks. I mean, they’re here for the game, not to troll people or some shit. This will never go wrong. Definitely won’t be abused. And there’s no way that spending $20 a month on a server wouldn’t make you qualified to identify hackers better than VAC or other anti-cheating programs. There will definitely be no instances such as those had with Froxer where he livestreams his entire performance and is still banned by admins for hacking based on faulty accusations that can be proven false by simply looking at his stream.
The great thing about this survival game, is you don’t just have to survive the mechanics, hackers, and players, now you have to survive the admins.
Also, please do well to mention what servers are participating in this fuckfest. I need to know which servers to avoid.
Being honest, there’s no ultimate ban system, Valve is doing ok, but takes a long time to apply the bans, I mean they banned people from using Open Broadcast Software (OBS), which is a streaming tool. Yep, anyway a snippet could be created, but what would stop people from forcing it to ban legit players. I know this can be abused, hence I will be monitoring it and am asking for suggestions to improve it. Else I’d not develop it there are several ways to report abuse of the system, I will look it up and act accordingly, but for the most part it will be a community-driven system.
Hackers/cheaters are all around the place, you can’t trust anyone in the internet, I mean I’m pretty sure hackers/cheaters already saw this post and are trying to make it drop.
How many reports do you want to have as false bans, 10%? from 100 reports thats 10, and from those 10 reports the most part will be easy to detect and proofs need to speak for themselves. An administrator must be really bored to really take the time to try to create a false ban, and if it happens - which indeed will - he/she will end up being reported, reviewed and suspended if it’s true. And yeah if I happend to review someone’s false bans, just expect the worse. The 5 false ban limitation was just a nice thing to do to let people alive if they have mistakes while reporting someone (which should be reported by whoever added it in order to delete the entry asap).
Now, please read how it works before commenting. Yes it can be abused, but it will not be permanent. Let’s see who gets tired first, hackers purchasing new servers/accounts or a script that updates numbers.
I know people will add legit players, their bans will not be permanent as long as they report them. However the admin that added the report will be suspended from the system. You just actually gave me an idea for another check for registration verification, haha - gets it down on my notes
As a general comment, again, this tool is an optional system to use. I believe in the future the false bans will start dropping in number as the “badmins” start getting cleaned out of it. It is by no means the Valve killer and will not substitute your bans, actually you should keep your own list and just add these (when it goes live) if you find the need of it.
Being honest, there are admins that ban players that speak different language, we don’t want those bans in the list, you can do whatever you want in your server, but don’t come to this system and try to troll because the only one that is going to be trolled is you
I will get down on my to do list the suspended admins list, since the registration system requires you to link your server IP and your steam profile, you don’t really want to appear on the list
I’m not worried about appearing on the list. I’ve had my steam account since my mid teens and am now in my mid twenties. I’ve yet to be banned on any steam game I have.I have been accused of hacks, however. All I can see, is that if Froxer can get banned so easily so can I. It’s one of the reasons I quit playing Combat Arms all together. I’d regularly be banned from the servers until it wasn’t fun anymore. I am not an amazing player, but when I see a survival game with FPS features where the FPS can ruin while the survival/farming can make gain I see a problem. I see a lot of people getting shot in the head, calling hacks, and the admin bans them. I don’t have the computer to capture everything I do and I really have no intentions of doing so.
To me, this only sounds like trouble. There are a lot of good admins and I’ll stick on their servers, but I’ve known a lot of bad admins and I don’t want it bleeding over. I’ve known some tournament level players before and unless you really check them out and know what’s going on you’d think they were hacking. If you know America’s Army 2, I had a friend on there with a 5:1 KDR. Him getting banned was very normal. He even saved some screen shots from when he killed a hacker who was subsequently banned by punkbuster for having an aimbot. This guy never was. Some people are good, and I see a lot of admins not knowing the difference between hacks and aimbots and not following up. This seems more akin to a witch hunt where I can play the steps right to be claimed legitimate in the community to only make bad calls or out those who I don’t like later.
I’ll probably never get myself banned, but this just seems full of flaws regardless of the systems set in place. This in the point of VAC. It detects the modified files within the games’ folders and bans them. They have an aimbot? They will be banned. They have a speed hack? They will be banned. What this boils down to is people growing too impatient in an alpha and going way too hard to prevent hackers. I hate those people too, they ruin the game, but I see this being detrimental to Rust’s future if it grows too popular. What happens when you have thousands of admins signed up? How are you going to verify them all? How is every individual banned hacker going to be checked? VAC does this with an automated system. I don’t believe that you guys have an automated system capable of verifying every banned player to check if they are hacking.
When thousands of admins sign up not even 20% of them will be “badmins” as the other 80% will have eyes on the reports, not only me and the backend system working. Everything done by everyone is public, that’s the beauty of the system, you will be able to see 99.9% of the information that is required (0.1% for vote results being shown at the end of the voting :P). As mentioned before “bad apples” will, in time, be in a way or another removed from the system, either automatically or by people reporting X user/admin. As mentioned before, if there were 100 reports from which 10% were false bans, atleast half of that will not have enough proofs and will be easily detected by other admins.
In rare cases where a report PASSES BOTH FILTERS, when the admin adds the report and voting happens and when the user fills a denounce and a result is shown. Then, I will look into it if the result was not convincing by any of both parties.
Valve has automatic systems, yes, but automatic systems once they have decided they require human input in order to rever it.
Here, there’s an automatic system as well, however, there’s more human input in it making it having diferent results and not just a “X” was detected - I don’t care if it’s not a cheating program - VACBanned! - example can be found here.
And in the lesser cases where a player or an admin has been suspended/banned for no real reason, then that’s when I come in.
I’m not saying that it is bullet proof, but we are all people and can review and decide according to proofs submitted and community’s input about the matter.
And being honest, I don’t think there’s an MMO that does not have cheaters/hacks/bots even on full release. They try to clear them up, but I think there’s nothing better than eyes reporting.
Not to mention Google, google is a hell of a spy, I already found a cheater/hacker on this topic posting and nothing is preventing users / admins from asking in the server of the reporter what happened. It requires people to actually care of the problem more than just sit back and do nothing and just cry about it on the forums. Step up and take action, it’s better to have 10-20-100 banned cheaters/hackers and 1-2-10 players false banned that can defend themselves with the system in 10-20-100 servers, than having 10-20-100 non banned cheaters/hackers ruining 1000-20000-50000 other player’s game experience.
Atleast that’s what I think, hope you share my thoughts. Also, nothing is preventing administrators to filter false bans from their servers if someone in their server is trusted and was added to the list, though it would be expected to be reported to remove it from the list.
It seems we don’t agree, but that’s ok as it is an optional thing. I think people are using hacks because there’s no real consequence about it until Valve bans them, which can take a long time. You are free to use it or leave it, there’s no way to find out if it will work or not if it has not even been tested yet. I don’t expect the 4,664 servers that are online with people right now to be registered and use this list. I by no means will allow such numbers to be reached as it would get out of hands.
But as I verify admins, I can decide who can join in and who doesn’t, it’s my system anyway. People will be free to use the ban list generated or they can simply ignore it, as I will try to keep the confirmed bans as that, confirmed bans.
I respect your opinion, and you do have some points I agree on, however, I am not stopping this proyect due to some users abusing the system if they can be cleared out automatically or manually.
What kind of drugs do you do? On popular games, hundreds of hackers can be reported an hour. You’re going to properly verify all of them? Everyone is going to? It’s not going to happen. And there doesn’t seem to be anything stopping abuse apart from your words. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were trolling at this point. Either that, or you have no realistic idea about what containing hackers in the way you propose means. Unless you plan on making yet another automated hacker prevention system that works along the same lines as all of the others.
Quoted for truth. He doesn’t seem to understand the volume of hack reports that are going to be coming in.
What constitutes video proof of an aimbot? Getting shot? What differentiates that from a legitimate headshot? How do we know you aren’t wearing armor? Why are you going to punish a good player?
What constitutes video proof of ESP? Someone finding you? A lot of players are very bad at strategy, and aren’t very good at hiding. It’s easy to use a decent pair of headphones to follow their footsteps around. I’ve even followed invisible admins this way.
What constitutes video proof of someone flying? Someone being dubbed into a video? Piece of cake. You say “well I’ll just ban / demerit / downvote / sanction / etc admins for making false reports”, but you won’t know they’re false.
In all of the above cases, you’ll have an admin claiming cheating and a player claiming innocence. Boom, deadlock 100% of the time. Now you’re going to require five admins to upvote the ban? Sweet - my clan brothers and I will share links daily so we can all upvote each other’s bans. While I’m at it, I’ll just upvote every ban I see. I’m sure lots of other admins will, too. After all, it’s not like there’s a shortage of abusive admins on here.
There’s a reason bans aren’t left to the community. The community is both vindictive and stupid. Read through the “OMG REPORT HACKERS HERE” thread and see all the “someone raided my base but didn’t even open my door OBVIOUSLY HE’S NOCLIPPING” posts followed by “omg yea good thing u reported him lol”.