de_supply ; v2.7 (Need feedback)

MAP UPDATED TO V3.0.1

This is a bomb/defuse map for CS:GO optimized for 5v5’s, but is supported for 10v10 gameplay. The map is still in Beta, but I think I have all of the gameplay related things sorted out. But I’m not much of an artist or a designer. For me it’s: gameplay first, aesthetics last. So I would apprieciate if you would give me feedback and suggestions of how I can make the map better and more eye-appealing. :wink:

WORKSHOP PAGE FOR FULL INFO AND DOWNLOAD: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=487172748

Map preview images

are you not using light_spot entities for the indoor lamps?
on the subject of lamps, the lamps in the living areas look like they belong in an industrial building.

the general layout of the map looks quite simple, just from the screenshots on the workshop. try making it look less like it’s made out of simple blocks.
the brushwork also looks very plain.

interiors of all buildings appear empty, especially, the boxing hall.
the yellow lighting in some buildings could be toned down.

most outside-walls of the buildings that aren’t enterable look quite monotonous.

whether or not players will be able to use them, there should be some sorts of gates, so that cars would be able to get in and out.

the exterior brick walls should be given some unique textures.

It’s not bad at all.

Pros: Brushwork and design come together and the actual layout is great.

Cons: The design is very straighforward, and you might want to pay attention to making the map more obstructed: I’d imagine the gameplay being fairly poor when there’s nothing to take cover behind or so. Some kind of chicanes would probably do the job. Lighting needs a lot of work. Also, as mentioned, the map feels too tidy. Try adding more decals etc. to make the map more lived-in looking. Especially the walls need more detail. I would recommend this site https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Adding_More_Detail_to_a_map

TL;DR: get rid of the longest corridor parts

also, why did you make a circle out of the electric wires as seen here at the bottom of the screenshot :godzing:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/388794745861076508/B525739191991CDB3E9A2E1891E3953F52E7F7DB/

I don’t really know why. Like, I know, that it doesn’t make much sence, but my OCD is making me cringe if I don’t make a full loop with the wires :smiley: . Also, thanks for the advice. I personally thought that the game-play side of it was great and that the only problem of the map was the lack of detail, for I’m not much of an artist. But seeing that I have playtested the map only against bots, I don’t know how the gameplay would hold out in a real game. So I will try to clutter up the long areas; maybe something similar to the style de_train uses on the T spawn.
But anyway, I don’t intend to make this map beautiful. I just don’t have the artistic brain for that :smiley: . So if anyone wants to help out and give their contribution on the aesthetics, I’ll just be glad. :slight_smile:

It’s pretty bland, it needs more objects and entities to stand out.

Have you done the timings yet? As the others mentioned, there are a TON of really long sightlines the CTs can get to very quickly and exploit. You also really need to put some serious work into the theme since it makes very little sense.

Why is there a metal hole in the sand? Why is there a random flatbed trailer flipped on it’s side without the corresponding truck, and how did it even get there in the first place since both alleyways are blocked?

All of that is secondary to the gameplay of the map for CSGO of course. I would highly recommend you remove all but the most essential models and textures/decals and test it with people. I’ve made the mistake of testing with bots before and relying on them is never a productive measure of your map.

Look at the nav, look at where the game thinks the chokepoints and battle zones are and work on those. But most of all; get your timing DOWN. That is the absolute very first fundamental step you need to take after you block your map out.

@Framperton
Points taken :wink: . At first I was thinking of making it’s theme as a broken down pile of rubble in a place similar to South Arabia/Afrika, that suffered from the bombing in WW2 and it’s still in a rebuild state. But I have not yet even touched on the ambiant destruction or proper detailing, since it can take a LOT of time. And if I ever have to make big changes, most of if would go to waste.

Secondly, I did check the chokepoints. There are three of them.
The one at A bombsite double wide hole (house exit) is pretty straight forward. If the T’s rush, then the CT’s will obviously have a massive deployement advantage, since their spawn is right next to the site. Some smokes and flashes can easily counter that though.
The second one is right in the middle of B, which is really designed for AWP battles and relied on “picks”.
The third one is right at the exit of the boxing room and the second A site entrance. I actually define it as the map’s “mid” area. A place where you can get a lot of info, but you have to fight for the control of it.

And as far as the testing. Well, unfortunately I don’t have the people or friends that can help me out playtesting, so sadly I HAVE to rely on the results that the bots provide.

Suffered bombing in WWII and still hasn’t rebuilt yet? We talking about ruins or an actual town? because most towns would have recovered from that in about 10 years or so. Unless it was just simply abandoned, which would be fine too and could have some interesting gameplay considerations.

As far as testing: go to mapcore.org and sign up for tests. If you are serious about getting your map up to competitive standards then that is the place to go.

Bots will literally fuck you over when it comes to trying to figure out if you’re chokepoint or sites are well designed or not. Even on expert they are not even half as skilled as even even the shittiest unranked player. Catering your designs for how the AI plays in csgo is boku bad news. You literally only need them to know how to walk around the map so that in the event a player drops the person taking control of the bot isn’t in the middle of dumbfuck nowhere.

@Framperton
Thanks for the suggestion on mapcore. I will try that once I get back frim vacation :slight_smile: .
And yeah, the whole bombing thing and the long rebuilding seems kind of stupid :smiley: , so maybe I should try to change up the entire level design or the map lore. God, making aim maps was so much easier, you didn’t have to think about things like theese :smiley: . But I guess that’s why they say, that good maps aren’t made in a day :smiley:

Yeah totally, I was in your shoes a year ago where I didn’t have enough friends that knew CSGO well enough to provide useful feedback and was sort of lost about what I needed to do and bring too reliant on the bot’s skills.

A few mapcore tests straightened me out and helped me think about level design in a much more organized way.

Map updated to v3.0.1! Please visit the workshop page for the download and full info. If you have already previously checked it out, please do again! Many things have changed since I last posted here :slight_smile: (full changelog on the workshop “change logs” section) Workshop page

Detailing

I am aware of that problem :frowning: . I did mention, that I am no good when it comes to detailing. I have tried holes in the ground and walls, displacements on the ground and corners. I have enen tried to mix up some textures, but I am quite limited, unless I decide to try to make my own textures. So, as I said, I am powerless in that subject, that is why I’m asking for help from anyone who has the spare time to add some detailing. If anyone wants, I can send the actual SDK files to them. But thank you for having a look at it! :slight_smile:

Google image some reference pictures of various buildings in your setting, it’ll make it much easier for you to detail.

When detailing a map, keep in mind that a little can go a long way. From the few pics I saw in your OP, I’d recommend adding trim to the outsides of buildings and pushing the windows a bit in to the wall so they don’t look like they’re just tacked on. I’d also recommend replacing the chimneys you made with brushwork with static props. For your building interiors, you should add some static props such as tables and couches (as long as they don’t obstruct visiblity too bad), and for the outside ground, you should change it to a displacement texture that can be painted with the paint alpha tool. It could also help to switch your ground textures up a bit (ex. stone passageways, dusty bombsites). The base game textures can already accomplish a lot. Last thing I’d suggest is to try to get a consistent visual style and color scheme. Right now, the visual style is all over the place, as there’s dusty middle eastern walls mashed with oddly clean new brick walls.

If you’re still stuck, open up some official maps in CS:GO or hammer itself if you have to and see how they did things.