Devblog 97 High stone and wood wall nerf? Really... ATT MAURINO BERRY

Hello Everyone,

I had a discussion with Sgt Solj on the effectiveness of the high stone and wood wall changes. While some argue that it is a nerf (in a sense it is), but I argue that it is actually a buff and has far more damaging effects.

Here is the dialogue of my discussion with Solj in response to his video “How to rust day 101 changes to high walls”:

**Int3nseGrind: **
*Devs had the right idea. But really really bad update to the walls. Their idea was to make the walls weaker, but inadvertently they made the walls stronger. Bases that utilize transfer tower builds (making a tower to get to main base) are now virtually unraidable because people can just stack walls around there base.

Let’s say they stack 4 walls around a 3x3 main with triangle honey comb and a transfer tower. The total cost to just get through to the main 3x3 base now is 12 c4, pretty hard to obtain in a vanilla rust server for the biggest of groups and probably not worth it to raid a 3x3 base using that many explosives.If we want to see more raids happen, they should have decreased wall hit points to 1000 with the same picking/axing 1:1 damage ratio they had before. The C4 and Rocket penetration that they set at 3 c4 and 6 rockets now is perfect. Writing this, I think the main problem with the walls was the c4 and rocket penetration. Maybe keeping the walls at 1500 would have been fine too. Now it seems they just wanted to see how we would react by taking out the possibility of picking/axing to c4ing and rocketing. I feel that this well have a greater reduction in raids, as people are forced to use c4 or rockets (which a lot of people find hard getting in the first place, esp on vanilla).*

Sgt Solj:

  • Sometimes I feel like in an attempt to bring balance to their games, the FP Devs often times go too far in one direction or the other (too strong of nerfs or too weak, hardly ever in the middle). Instead of slowly making adjustments to something to bringing it in line with the games natural balance, they YOLO it and make the best out the situation they’ve created.*

Int3nseGrind:
*yeah that seems to be the case here. I don’t even know if this is a nerf to be honest lol. It’s like they took out one option (picking/axing) and forced c4 or rocketing. Doing so limits the Raiders options and as you said in the video benefits the defender.

The main problem with this is that it takes the fun out of raiding and getting raided. Let’s say you were the defender and there’s a group of five outside your base. With the new wall patch you know your pretty much screwed if you have one layer of stone walls cause they c4ing or rocketing and you must prepare for a breach. On the other hand, let’s say devs kept walls pickable at a 1:1 ratio and 3c4 or 6 rockets to penetrate. As the defender you don’t know what to expect, they can start picking or start blowing. This problem probably creates chaos in the defenders mind. Like I would think “are they going to pick axe” or “are they going to blow in”, this thought to some might make them feel uneasy. But Rust is about unpredictability, the unknown factor makes this game so fun and unique. Nerfing walls limits a raiders option, which directly effects a defenders thought process (it actually dumbsdown the defenders thought process, they can only blow in).

Isn’t Rust supposed to challenge people’s mental thought process on survival?
Reducing options for raiding benefits the defender and if the devs want people to stay pent up inside their Rust bases, continuing this trend of unthoughtfulness in changes to items such as the stone and wood wall well no doubt have this effect.

But than again, what fun would rust be if everyone stayed inside the comforts of their home?

You decide.*

Hope we can have a discussion here about the high walls and get Maurino’s attention to make more thoughtful changes in the future.

Sincerely,
Int3nseGrind

It’s hard to say whether it is a nerf or a buff. Maybe just different, in essence.

The biggest problem with high walls were that they were tremendous explosive sponges, to the point where it was completely pointless even trying to blow through them if you were chasing a profit. This lead to offline raiding them with pickaxes.

I wouldn’t mind if they kept the old health, with a severe debuff to explosions, like you have already brought up. The problem with them how strong they were last patch was that people were stacking them like 5 deep and it was really a crutch for those that can’t design good bases.

Those complaining that they aren’t worth the resources still, are very much mistaken. Making something remotely similar using foundations costs at least 1800 stone and 300 wood. This takes up more space and is harder to line up on shitty terrain.
**
FYI, fire rockets still absolutely fucking eat through them so if you have a surplus from taking down the chopper, walls still pose no challenge at all.**

Yeah! Agree with all your points. The walls are definitely more worth it then just honey combing as you said more space to stack and not to mention the height and barbwire benefit.

Thinking more about the high walls and keeping it at 1500hp with picking/axing and c4 and rocket reduction wouldnt be such a bad idea.

Didnt know about the incendiary rocket damage, thanks!.

i would even say 1000 HP is good enough. As soon as youre in a clan you make like 5 rows of walls around youre base. And the decay is not a problem either you can just keep stacking new update buffed our base crazily

Yeah this is an insane buff to walls, simply because of the shell protection. Previously 4 people could pickaxe through a stone wall in 5 or so minutes, now you MUST use C4/rockets for each wall.

Not sure I like it, because people already have just started wrapping their tiny bases in 3 layers of stone walls and using 3rd floor entrances you need to build into. With this change, it’s so easy to make a base completely not worth raiding because you can easily make it cost far more to break in than the worth of your items inside.

They are far too cheap for the protection they give now IMO. Bearing in mind to cover the same area of a high external wall with normal foundation+walls you’d need to spend around the same amount of stone up to upgrade.

I had a clan wait for this patch to raid us. On the server 2 days then they come raid us with about-22 less c4. Perfect timing.

There has to be high quality defence items in Rust or it’s just not gonna work… If any base can be destroyed with a handful of C4 then what’s the point in building big bases.

True, but why shouldn’t pickaxing be an option?
C4 and rockets being the only offense seems too narrow to me.

No way they need the shell. What the hell is the point of high walls if everyone can just pick axe the things. Why even have them in the game. Just do walls again if that’s the case. For the first time highs walls are as they should be. Walls that are a bitch to get pass. Do I think they need more strengths and weaknesses yes. But for the first time they have a solid purpose.

Thanks for voting and responding everyone. After thinking further about the high walls. I think picking/axing must be an option as having shell protection is wayyyyy to strong.

What i propose is increasing high wall hp to 2000, while keeping c4/rocket damage as it is now, and have a 1:1 ratio picking/axing capability as it was before. To break it down and explain my thought process:

  1. High wall hp to 2000 and 1:1 picking/axing capability. It seems the majority of people that are against 1500 or lower hp think that it would be pointless to make high walls cause people well just pick through them. This is true, so increase the walls to 2000 to make picking/axing take awhile longer. Increasing the duration of time picking/axing makes it less likely someone will raid your base while still keeping the option availiable to raiders because of the 1:1 damage ratio.

  2. Takes 3c4 and 6rockets to blow high wall. Keep this as is, because of the ridiculous amount it took before. Most agree that this is the proper fix.

My final point is this, rust is a survival game that is supposed to be as real life as possible. Rust has been succesful because it is dynamic in the options you can choose. By limiting raiding options, like the ladder nerf it has an inherent effect on the game as a whole. Think of rust items like an ecosystem, when a top predator goes extinct the predators prey can now mate unconditionally and eats more and more of its prey causing a negative feed back loop and possibly making another plant or animal in its ecosystem go extinct.

Buffing an item like the high wall has this effect as well. Smart players learn to encase their base with high walls, make a tower to get to their base, and live fairly happily inside their walls with a small amount of threat or danger. What this causes like the eco system example, is more people make the same style build and/or hide in the comforts of their homes.

The majority thus far, has spoken and voted on the option to bring back 1:1 picking/axing while keeping c4/rocket penetration as is now. So please Maurino, change this.

Another problem shows up… After last update we were unable to fix the high walls… ok, it’s fixed… but now… OMG! 50 Stones to fix 50 stones? I mean… Why? Metal is 5 to 50 fixing, everything cost lower than the hp fixed… high walls now are weaker and more difficult to fix? What u want from us?