Devblog changes and gun balance

I haven’t made a post in a while but I also haven’t made a very significant post in an even longer while so I wanted to come and change that.

The big update is out (not cars) and Rust has taken a big step in the right direction.
-Melee is being expanded upon
-Guns are becoming more valuable and requiring more steps to acquire
-Clothing and resistances are taking shape and becoming more significant and flexible

With all these changes, of course, comes some balancing that will take place overtime as more play-testing occurs.

I’ve been playing Rust since very early in its alpha and I’ve also made a strong connection with this game. I’m nearing 1000 hours played on New Rust and I play almost exclusively as a solo / +1 solo player. *The reason I mention these things is because they are very critical bits of information for you all to understand just how I play the game and how I interpret its mechanics.

I love the Rust gun-play

I typically play as a neutral karma sort of bandit. When I’m building up from a wipe or just starting on a server, I typically kill for my own personal gain. This predator mentality is a lot of fun and since I’ve had a lot of time playing that way I’ve become pretty decent at sneaking, waiting, and killing innocent newmans for wood, clothes, or whatever was in that barrel you just stood still for 3 seconds wacking. I also love fire-fights. The importance of positioning and timing make this extremely well designed twitch-shooter so rewarding and thrilling.

Where this is going

With the new additions of farming-monuments, so many things have changed.

I used to start up by making a spear, then a bow and trying to use those to gain some sort of pistol / armor. Now with the addition of Large Furnaces laying all around the landscape, I can go from 500 wood and 2 metal nodes to a revolver in about 1 minute (because the furnaces cook SO fast). This is important now because before I’d either have to find a vacant house to hold up in for about 2 full minutes while the metal cooked, or wait until I had my own shack to craft a pistol.

To be very clear I love this, it makes the game much more enjoyable and fluid for nomadic survivors

BUT. The amount of material it takes to make lower tier guns is not as balanced as it should be in order for low-end to medium-end bandits / players to acquire them.

TL;DR

What classifies as a high tier gun

This is obviously subject to a lot of discussion because each person has their own opinion on what is a powerful gun and what isnt, but for the most part it can be broken down into kill potential.

Bolt Action
-Now the cheapest high-end gun, this MF uses the SAME EXACT AMMO as the AK (but packing more damage per bullet) I wont bitch, they’ve mentioned balancing this before but its still relevant to the gun balance discussion
-Because of the facts listed above this gun is the economic “High-end weapon”. With HV rounds its also easily the deadliest; outranging AK users, 1 shotting most players and like I said, costing the least amount of HQ / wood to craft (I dont mention cloth because with cannabis plants literally everywhere that resource is almost being tossed out of my boxes its taking up so much space

Assault Rifle
-The most expensive high-end gun, this bad bitch is a monster in mid-close range combat and can land shots at distances comparable to the bolt action.
-Because this gun costs almost twice what a bolt takes to craft, as a player acquiring most of his High Quality metal ore from the first few taps of nodes, I’d much rather have 2 bolts as opposed to 1 AK.

Mid tier guns

Currently, High Quality metal is required for any gun besides the revolver pistol, and waterpipe shotgun (crossbow too but i guess its not really a gun). This seems incorrect to me as most players of Rust will skip the mid tier guns ALL TOGETHER and just begin working on High-tier guns since most of the mid-tier guns require disproportional amounts of High Quality metal. ***I will explain my reasoning behind why the amount of metal required is disproportional and not in-line with a progressive gun advancement. ***

Thompson
-This gun has pretty poor sights (since they cover most of your target) and because of this is much more hard to shoot accurately at a target. It can be done and is definitely top-tier in terms of mid-tier guns.
-Uses pistol ammo, which is slightly more economy than 5.56.

*** The Thompson currently requires 35 High Quality metal and 300 wood (or something along those lines). This obviously conflicts with the gun-tier system since by the time you can make a Thompson, you can already craft a bolt action.
OF COURSE THIS IS ASSUMING YOU HAVE THE BOLT BLUEPRINT: But this isnt a far fetched idea considering all guns seem to be equally rare when it comes to finding them from barrels or rad towns. It is actually MUCH MORE LIKELY that a player kills some member of his particular servers “INSTER BIG CLAN NAME HERE” and has picked up a bolt and or AK to research. In conclusion: This gun should take about 15 High Quality Metal to craft. Think of it like this, how powerful is a bolt compared to a tommy gun? Would you trade a bolt action for 2 tommy guns? Then you should treat the crafting material in a similar manner.

Pump Shotgun / Custom SMG
-Close quarters weapons that are both extremely punishing when in close range. These guns are certainly outclassed by the rifles and really cannot be used as marksmen weapons at all. (Maybe you can try it with the SMG, but good fucking luck landing about 9 accurate shots on a single target).
-These guns are categorized together because they serve a very very similar purpose and power. Both guns should require about the same material to craft (which they do so I assume facepunch kind of agrees with me on that point). Though, currently both require 30 HQ metal to craft. (which is horseshit because id easily trade 3-4 of these guns for a bolt). My suggestion would be to put these guns at either 15 or 10 HQ metal (OR have the metal frag price brought back but doubled.) since that’s quite an easy amount to acquire but means whichever dickstick crafts one will have to cater to the Close Quarters specificity of the gun in order to make use of its fair cost.

Semi-Auto Pistol
-This guy was my fuckin JOINT before the patch. It combined accuracy with close quarters havoc and made for the ideal economy weapon. It was easy to craft and with the right positioning could easily beat a fully geared opposition. Honestly, I used to just pretend it was an m14 rifle because of its power and accuracy compared to the rifle class. But unfortunately, now costing about 15 HQ metal, it’s not worth it at-fucking-all. Why make 2 of these shits when i could just hold out for 15 more HQ metal and make a bolt? fuck out of here.
-Okay okay, I told you guys I’m a solo player and I’m sure some other solo players see this gun so low on my mid-tier list and are saying (nah bro, the semi-auto easily outclasses the shotty, maybe even the tommy). And you’re not completely wrong. This gun needs to be like 7 HQ metal, or have its Metal Frag cost brought back, but bumped up to like 400 or 500 frags. That’d make sense and class the gun where it should be in terms of value.

In Summary: The mid-tier guns in my 1k hour solo-player opinion should be weapons that arn’t point and click like rifles. They should be guns that hold their own power in the niche way that they are utilized. A shotgun man should be able to blast an AK man if he manages to position himself close enough, or sneak around up to the AK man. A pistoleer should be able to beat riflemen by having superior aim or the element of surprise. What makes the mid-tier separate from the top-tier is that these guns require the player to understand their capabilities far ahead of combat. In that respect they balance their discounted price with a higher requirement of skill and understand. (making them the most fun guns to use IMO).

Finally, the low-tier / dogshit (Please fix this) tier

Revolver
-This gun is my current joint, costing only 100 metal frags and still being a highly accurate, medium damage weapon. This gun is easier than ever to make and will put you in a position to kill some of the biggest baddies.
-The reason why this isn’t a mid-tier gun is because it is a gun that is surprisingly hard to use. It’s accuracy makes it a strong mid-range gun but in close quarters it can be easy to dodge around. Also something needs to lead the shit-tier class.

Eoka Pistol
-Alright seriously, whys this shit even in the game? It’s miles behind the bow and that shit didn’t even make my list because its perfect. The bow / crossbow are pretty much neck and neck with the revolver for this class and so it pretty much just leaves the discussion of what can Facepunch do to re-work this thing and make a fun and useful addition to the shit-tier family.

Some ideas for the eoka: Make it have a REALLY long reload instead of having this random chance to shoot bullshit. It was a decent idea like okay its so simple that you dont even know when the sparks gonna light the powder, but at the end of the day its never used except to be silly. (and I guess theres a place for that too). But to really get this gun into the gun-league it should have a more rewarding and useful gimmick. I’d like to see it become something you carry on you to use one time in a whole encounter. Maybe make it so the gun needs to be reloaded for 20 whole seconds and when it fires, it acts more like a mid-range waterpipe that shoots condensed buckshot of stones.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say about all this, because I must not be the only one who thinks the gun progression is a little wonky as of now.

Good analysis. I was surprised to see the pistols use HQ metal… then again you still get HQ from nodes (in low quantities but still) so it’s not out of reach at all for a nomadic/solo player.

True, but its just not value in terms of the gun progression which is really important

I like that the eoka can use all bullet types.

I do too, but it still doesnt make it fit into the meta gun game

I like how your idea gives us useful gun tiers. A middle tier metal like scrap or slavage could also anchor the middle game and appeal to that nomadic motif you mentioned.

That’s true, maybe the mid tier metal comes out of all nodes, not just metal nodes.

Something like that would bridge the tiers yeah

Salvage could also be used for a lot of the mid tier armors like the riot helm / scrap armor

Bump because more people should have input on this issue

You’re dumb

i worry about you calling yourself dumb;)

I don’t read the whole post, but what do you think, if u can build all guns wie hq metal or metal frags, but if u use metal frags there is a possibilty that your weapon breaks and injured you?

I think that RNG is hardly ever competitive, and is usually more frustrating than immersive. I see where you’re going with this idea, but for that sort of mechanic to be implemented it would need to be more based on user input and not just random chance. They’d have to make some sort of active-reloading situation like Gears of War or something for that to be something I’d support.

:J