"Emergent Gameplay" = KoS'ing newbs and griefing

Best as I can tell, “emergent gameplay” in Rust seems to equate to killing nakeds/newbs on sight and griefing. Because that’s the only “emergent gameplay” you see happening on 99% of servers.

Call me crazy, but I don’t see why viewing every other player as hostile is necessary for “emergent gameplay.” It seems like truly emergent gameplay would involve, at a minimum, a loose social and economic system among the server community. You know, sometimes working with other players to reach a goal. Networking with other players for trade. Occasionally needing another player to accomplish something (i.e., depending on a nearby carpenter to create some advanced wood structure, etc.).

I know it’s only alpha, but I haven’t seen anything on the development table that’s going to address this. For some reason, the community at large has decided that an “emergent gameplay” survival game = everybody you see is hostile and needs to be immediately shot. And that any game change to the contrary would somehow be detrimental to the idea of “emergent gameplay.”

I don’t really get it. Am I the only one that thinks it would be a good thing if other players could actually potentially offer some benefit to you, aside from the simple “let’s make sure our group is bigger than the other group for the sake of mutual protection.” It makes for a pretty shallow, and IMO unsustainable, gaming experience.

The “development table” really doesn’t show more than tiny little bites of stuff they’re working on for the near future. More in-depth, long-term content like what you’re talking about is kept mostly in-house for the time being.

I have seen a couple attempts at some truly inspiring collaboration on a couple different servers involving large communities of players with a shared area of farming, protection, etc. Unfortunately, these areas quickly became the primary target of ‘raiders’ and ended up being unsustainable.

There is no cause for cooperation except, as you say, to group together to be more powerful yet. Until there is something that causes more PvE, then PvP will always reign supreme. Don’t get me wrong, I like the PvP, but there seems to be a lot more room for balance than the current state.
If there is a vision (color me skeptical when people say they have one but won’t share it), it’s hard to imagine base on what is currently implemented.

See, I completely understand where you’re coming from. However, keep in mind the game’s state right now mimics real like in that, when given ultimate freedom to work together or fight, humans will initially default to fighting. But, I can attest to the fact that both how you conduct yourself on a sever, as well as the server itself that you play on, can make all the difference in the world.

Find another noob or two and make friends. Go far out where no one can get you. Study up on the game and build a base. I have made it my personal goal to join a PvP server and make friends with everyone so I don’t have to worry. Our server hits 40-50 people during peek times, and in a week I’ve successfully fallen into a place where I don’t get killed on sight.

I understand your frustration, but this game (at this stage) is VERY much about social networking and how you can be helpful to others. The more valuable you make yourself, the less people will want to piss you off and instead want your help.

Stick with it friend. As little as there is in this game thus far, I’ve seen the dynamic is already pretty deep.

(and for what it’s worth, I made an account JUST to reply to you, so at least some of us are nice!)

EDIT: Accidentally a word

I tend to agree with you, Mavajo. However, what you are describing as “emergent gameplay” is what the current “end game” is to this alpha-stage game. Players do the basic hunting/gathering and building, however, since it is an incomplete game that gets old darn quick.

To some the next level is dominating a server with brute force. The group up with like mined folks and create a clan and go around raiding every structure they see and murdering all in sight… Because they can. And, in my perception, it is the only thing they think they have left to do in the game or it is really what they are truly interested in (those fulfilling twisted fantasies).

I do not find that style of gameplay interesting, personally. It also causes me to start over frequently as my base and person gets raided. Currently, my mindset on the game is that my regular restarts keep the game kinda fresh for me and the game is being developed and will be further fleshed out in the nearish future. In the mean time, I am fascinated by the human interaction and situations I see.

There will always be some sort of this in Rust. It is a survival game after all, and part of survival is defending yourself and base, and also taking what you need from where ever you choose; that being the land or other people’s bases or dead bodies.

My advice is to step back, look at the larger picture and find fun where you can. Perhaps mix a bit of 7 Days to Die in a bit on a private map then switch back to Rust.

I agree with this to a point. Once you reach the “end-game” the only thing left, really, is to PvP. You see this in MMOs all the time. Once people reach the end-game, they either stand around borderline-AFK in the “city center” or they PvP (assuming they’re not raiding).

And since Rust is in alpha, you reach the end-game extremely quickly. So people get to that point very quickly.

However, I’ve noticed that it’s gotten to the point where most players go into “KoS” mode the minute they get on a server. People have realized that there’s really no incentive to build these bigger structures. Toss up a couple shacks, add a box and a sleeping bag, and stash away a few things. Then go PvP.

I HOPE the devs have some ideas to help players create real communities. I don’t want there to be any punishment for PvP’ing. After all, PvP is fun. It’s the whole point of online gaming, IMO. But there should at least be some equilibrium where cooperating with other players can at least be as rewarding as killing other players and stealing all their shit.

I disagree with the contention that viewing everyone as hostile mimics real life. I don’t want to debate history here, since people can try to interpret it however they want. But in every culture in history, there’s always been a trend towards forming a community and developing some sort of socio-economic system. Sure, opposing communities may clash and fight - but in order for those communities to become rivals, they had to become communities first.

There’s really no tools to form communities or social structures in Rust. It can be done, but it tends to involve people that were friends before coming to Rust.

The problem is that at the moment, since it’s alpha, there isn’t any survival content. The building system is awesome, and sets the game high above the rest.
But aside from the building mechanic, there is nothing to threaten your survival except another player, like Goldeneye 64 (notice how I didn’t use CoD as an example XD )
Hunger and NPC’s are not a threat, so they become meaningless mechanics (or walking loot bags). The only threat is another player.

So when that changes, which hopefully it will, we will have more than CoD (damn it i tried so hard) with an awesome building mechanic, and we will finally have “emergent” gameplay/a survival game.

I am hoping for this as well, however, I see nothing coming up in the Trello that would suggest it. I don’t think is time, more basic items do need to be resolved before higher level, metagame issues can be addressed. Understandable, but damn, I wish they would a bit of both at the same time. The native are getting restless…

I saw a new-looking player in a house.
He saw me and I left him alone and walked away but he followed me.
Eventually he was running after me and pulled out a shotgun and shot me from a distance until he ran out of ammo.
I killed him easily but now I simply kill everyone on sight. It’s just a learned behaviour.

You can’t criticize a game based on the actions of the assholes that play it.

I think that’s a disingenuous statement. This is the play-style that Rust currently fosters and encourages.

Players are like water. They’re always going to take the path of least resistance. If a majority of the player-base is playing the game in a certain manner, then that’s a result of the way to devs designed the game.

There hasn’t been much in “emergent gameplay” since Ultima Online hit the shelves. If you want real emergent gameplay, look at what people used to do in that. Rust does similar things, just with prettier graphics in a different worldscape.

couldnt tell you how many times a naked guy has pulled a gun on me

Feel better to destroy someone’s hours of gameplay than help someone do something, that’s it.

emergent gameplay doesn’t work in rust. it barely works in dayz, but there seems to be more willing to RP there for some reason. in rusts player interaction, there’s no incentive to do anything other than kill each other, so that’s all that happens. emergent gameplay is a lie here - rust is a pvp deathmatch arena

Facepunch must pull some innovative content out of a hat or Rust will be DOA.

I see a lot of posts talking about their gameplay experiences and how they’re just PvP grudge matches. There’s not much non-PvP gameplay to really push more emergent gameplay but at the same time its largely in what you bring to the table as well. And it could be that I’m just spoiled by a smaller server. Sure, there’s plenty of KoS going on. But I’ve put 50+ hours in and have yet to fire first on anyone. I’ve been killed by players only 3 or maybe 4 times. I’ve also had some very tense runins where neither of us knew if the other was friendly and those are always fun. I’ve helped a ton of people. The game is still extremely fun for me and I’ve in no way treated it as a Deathmatch.

I think different servers and player density are probably providing very different play environments.

No, it doesn’t encourage it. It ALLOWS it. It’s the players that make the choice to act the way that they do. They are given the opportunity to do pretty much whatever they want. They could just as easily play the game, in it’s current state, with nobody killing newbies, nobody trolling other players, nobody stealing from other people. But they don’t, because they choose not to.

allowing =/= encouraging

They do encourage KoS by making it more rewarding in the short term than any other interaction with a player. If they added some short term incentive to player interaction that doesn’t involve one of them dying this game would have a lot more depth and actually become a survival game.

In it’s current state the only survival aspect is collecting resources and hiding/basing. All the rest is about PvP.

Could add sth like “morale” as a status, so if you group up with other players (team/clan?) all members’ morale increases, which can give some kind of bonus in their stats. So existing teams might be more interested in having others to join them, cuz they experience a direct improvement on theirselves.

Or maybe any plugin for private servers which makes a player choose a side, when they join a server, so they won’t have to start alone. (no idea if this is possible, don’t know anything bout programming and such)