- I should have aimed right at making a 1:1 clone of the legacy version in the new engine as a priority instead of trying to improve stuff. -Garry

Thoughts?

I disagree with garry about making a 1:1 recreation of legacy, but his decisions did piss off a lot of players who expected playability to be the number 1 priority, and he probably could’ve avoided a lot of stress and friction.

Garry sees the problem as it is; the games playability right now is basically zero. What was fun about the legacy rust was the PvP, fighting to establish yourself on a server or raiding the people with the biggest place. Working yourself up to C4 was THE goal, and as it stands there is no such goal right now. The ceiling for this game is to get geared up and go hunt people down, rather than smacking their walls with a hatchet for an hour trying to break in.

The simplicity that was Rust was the stupid and fun PvP. Going to a rad-town wasn’t risky because of the radiation, you were likely to be shot or beaten to death with a rock. I’m hoping once they put rad towns in the game we’ll be back at something relatively fun, they were the start of the PvP. What the hell did that guy get out of the box? Was it an M4? Chase him down and kill him to find out!

Either way, encouraging people to PvP is the way that I think he needs to go, and I’m sure they know it by now with his response to that post. I don’t want to log in to rust, chop down trees and play building simulator, there’s hundreds of other crappy games just like that.

TL:DR; I agree with his post, he needs to focus on bringing it back to PvP oriented legacy with rad towns and a static map for the time being until they can implement them in the procedural generated maps. As I understand it, that’s what they’re working on.

no point worrying about whether past decisions were “right”, just the pros and cons of the decision so you can adjust your future decisions based on what you learn.

in other words, i agree with the change in direction recently to prioritise playabilty by bugfixing and adding legacy content, but i don’t think the reboot was the “wrong” decision.

a lot of people got annoyed by new stuff being added instead of the legacy content, which is probably fair. but those people also have to remember they haven’t paid nearly enough to demand the direction of a game in development; and should be careful not to destroy communication pathways between a developer who is actually listening to most of our requests, and the rest of us.

It’s just, the final product will one day cast a shadow on legacy so large, it won’t even be talked about anymore.

The growing pains in the interim is just the shit that swirls around this forum until it flushes. I hate to think the team is wavering on the direction they’re heading, or what route they took to get there. Rust STARTED as a Dayz clone, and look where it settled.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. The ONLY enemy of this game is its fucking fans for some reason. Entitlement is what makes them think they have a say in its development, and this team is too gracious to not secretly read everything said about it, and take it to heart.

my biggest problem with the new rust is the gameplay. i mean… everybody know what i mean or? There are so many things…beginning from the point that you don’t hear the footsteps from other players and ends at the point where a guy killed you with a weapon in his hand aiming to the ground. sometimes you just get oneshotted from a player instant with a fucking Stone Spear and you don’t heard the player because of the bugging sound… i can tell you 500 more so badass gameplay shit in the new rust.

that’s my problem! that’s the reason why i play the old rust

the new rust is absolute absolute ****, just wait for h1z1.

bye.

I’m glad to see that garry at least accept that some stuff through the development, didn’t t turn out as fun that was expected.

But im also glad that through it all, he’s determined to finish what he started to the end. I like the experimental and legacy, even though legacy is a bit more fun than experimental. I wish him well and also the team to make the experimental as fun.

I hate coding when it came to my video game design class, so i understand what was it like working with shitty codes from the legacy.

I’m not thrilled with Experimental’s pace of development… I think most people can admit that if they’re being honest. There’s been a lot of time trying to get other peoples’ code to fit properly, and probably a couple of wheels have had to be reinvented along the way. I have some genuine concerns about Rust’s ability to handle large amounts of content and detail (currently having neither) when it struggles mightily with largely empty space. And I worry about it’s future in the market. A year ago, Rust was the only game that did what it did, as well as it did. At the moment there are a number of games building off Unity or other similar bases that seem to have a clearer picture of what they’re aiming to deliver and a certain amount of detail already. And I know a lot of people here will be getting busy, at least for a while, around the 15th of next month. But in theory at least, Garry has invested in a codebase that can handle large amounts of expansion and development where others will (like Legacy) be limited and static.

Despite my occasional frustration with the game, I don’t want to see FP waste time working on fill-in rad-towns and airdrops and roads for people who can’t find their way around a map using the sun and the landscape like hominids have been doing since the days when we spoke in grunts and hoots. I loved Legacy, but after hundreds upon hundreds of hours everything has been done. If you wanted to play Legacy, you would play Legacy… and at the moment, at least, you’d do so with tighter mechanics and triple the FPS. “Playable” is just a relative term… there’ll always be something missing that makes the game unplayable until it’s “done”.

He’s gone the right direction just needs more time. A 1:1 game is fine and maybe should have been done first but the direction is good and hope he sees his vision through. Maybe he should have made a clone and then built upon that. Who knows. Either way in the end itll be a good product.

@murdo: yeah, i think most people would agree with that, and it’s kind of what i understand garry as meaning. the game has taken longer to develop because they focused on new stuff over playability, and they seem to have figured that out now. most of the last few weeks have been bugfixes and improving fps, and i think we will see more focus on keeping it playable from now on.

as for losing players to the competitors, i doubt it really would be a problem. if i buy the game, play it for an hour then go play their competitors game for the rest of my life, it really makes no difference; i have given them my money, and they take no loss. also, most of the time people will own multiples of the same genre that do slightly different things. i have Killing Floor, tf2, CS; all fps, and i play each when i’m in the right mood;)

PvP is not just a KoS Team Deathmatch.

Most of the players I see stuck with legacy are frankly the assholes that I was glad to see gone. Garry should be thinking of the future audience for when its done. Not people who already bought the game who didnt understand EA and alpha. Are we going to know end up with a stripped down Legacy in new clothing? That gameplay was broke, once c4 and explosives could be made on a server it was pretty much endgame. All you could do is raid one another for the same shit you already had. Its not like one group or another specialized in anything.

Still say Frankieonpcin1080p had the right criticism about Survival. Rust would be taking a giant step backwards going to 1:1 Legacy.

Hard to agree with that. Do u think the devs would rather have someone play for an hour then come to the conclusion that this game sucks and never play it again like i did with 7 days to die. Or do they want someone who ends up spending 2200 hours on the game and gets probably gets 30 other people to buy the game because legacy was the most fun game ive ever played. Pretty huge difference for them. They also most likely take pride in the game and want everyone to enjoy it.

Versus the 120+ that wouldn’t have come because Rust gets the title KoS. Don’t say it wouldnt happen. It has, its probably the number one question asked about another Survival game I play from potential buyers… “Is it another KOS like Rust”?

This game is always gunna be kos unless its changed drastically, so i dont really see your point.

Why would it not be KoS? It’s a survival game, people fight to stay alive and fight for resources… I think that’s part of the game, is it not?

Sure, there are people who are genuinely nice and want to form an alliance, and that’s always fun to find people like that. Hell, that’s how I met some of the people I used to play with. I had no idea what I was doing and they helped me out, but then we all got shot by random people running around with M4’s. Yeah, it sucked, but what did it do? I wanted to get revenge on those bastards who killed me and my friends. That is what made it so much fun.

In any game you play it’s going to be KoS, I don’t know how you would possibly avoid it in a PvP environment.

Considering legacy was only 10% of the devs’ vision, count on drastic changes in the future. The game’s in alpha, and this means it’s only just getting started.

KoS is a playstyle in PVP. It is not the same as being what PVP is. A survival game suffers when its the most readily available (read: easy) thing to do.

Watch the video in this thread. Frankie has alot of experience in these. He is right as well, KoS while fun, isn’t as much as the psychological thriller of deciding who you can/cannot trust. If you just make a survival a KoS situation, it looses so much more of the emergent gameplay the developers want.

(This goes for Dill as well)

The devs have not mentioned anything that would reduce kos so his assumption that experimental isnt kos has nothing backing it. Also i clearly left the possability that it could change, but Thank you for reminding me for the 100th time that the game is in alpha eli. Im not sure where this forum would be without you.

Just because you don’t read what the devs are planning doesn’t mean they aren’t going to do anything.

Considering your account’s 10 days old I wonder if you’ve been here before.