Idea discussing thread.

Welcome to another thread, where we shall discuss ideas for the future of Rust. I think it’s going for compounds and eventually towns, so a special emphasis should be put on that. Also melee combat is pretty dull.
So let me throw some things I’ve thought about this weekend.

Shield. I think we’d benefit from a circular wooden shield (Viking style) that blocks melee attacks, but offers null protection to bullets (In fact, it should break very fast from bullet damage.) I say it should have a cost of 1000 Wood and 100 Cloth or something like that.

Riot shield. A VERY heavy metal shield that offers protection against bullets, but that can be penetrated by HV bullets and has a vulnerable viewing port that limits visibility. Cost should be very high, like 1000 metal frags.

Munition. A reinforced basketball with wiring and filled with a decent amount of explosives. Used as siege ammunition in the late game. Cost should be of 20 Explosives, 200 metal frags and 300 Cloth. Building damage should be around 300 and explosive radius about 3m.
Didn’t find a pic, but it’s not hard to imagine.

Cannon. A movable drainage pipe with a very reinforced microwave in the back and two truck wheels that happens to shoot things. Pretty accurate and good range. Long ass reload time and cost should be like 1200 metal frags, 500 Wood and 300 Cloth. Would need 300 Gunpowder and 1 Munition per shot. It’s use would be pretty much limited to leveling tower bases to encourage compounds.
It’s a bit hard to imagine, but here’s a pic of a cannon from Napoleon Bonaparte’s guard. http://i15.tinypic.com/85ax25x.jpg

C4. It should be a PRECISION charge, not a Boom in a Box throwable sticky bomb. This means that it should take, say, 5 seconds to plant AND without moving. Damage should then be increased to counter this.
http://cdn.yourepeat.com/media/gif/000/714/971/cc64a60072e8e0e2b4200d8382a6a772.gif

Trebuchet. Since compounds are going to become very popular in the near future, a spread out siege engine like a Trebuchet made of scrap metal would be the main weapon of choice. High spread, static, and with a cost of 500 Stone, 1000 Metal, 1500 Wood and 300 Cloth.
Uses Munitions to fire at a decent range.
Here’s a pic of how it works and a pic of a reconstruction. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Trebuchet_Castelnaud.jpg/350px-Trebuchet_Castelnaud.jpg http://www.cdn.sciencebuddies.org/Files/6400/7/trebuchet-diagram.png

Chainmail. Metal armor that covers a large area of the body that a metal chestplate, but has low bullet protection. Instead it has decent melee protection and a cost of 100 metal frags.

Flamethrower. I know it sounds incredibly stupid, but I swear it’s not OP at all. A tube with a small bottle capable of carrying 300 Low Quality Fuel, which burns for an amazing 5 seconds of glory. Used to break morale and kill things in CQC pretty fast. Cost of 400 metal frags.
http://www.dadsbigplan.com/images/uploads/1-gun.jpg

Tax Book. A book where records of players’ taxes and membership can be kept. It’s a bit hard to explain, but would basically make compound management A LOT easier later in the game’s development.

Discuss, gentlemen.

None of these moved my to be honest. In my book they need to fix what they started before adding new stuff. I feel the development lately is all over the place, yet we have all these bugs and very unbalanced items/mechanics all over the place and lots of players are expressing dismay at the current state of the game.

I understand it’s an EA and they can do whatever they want and so on, but this is getting a bit ridiculous. I don’t feel any of these changes you suggest would help bring back the game in line.

OP is leaning toward raiding over survival. I don’t know if Rust wants to go that route… And from what I gather on the forums, people kinda want a bit more survival aspects first.

I like the idea of shields. It’s in line with some of the other gear in-game, but could only be equipped with certain weapons (which might instigate the concept of handedness, two-handed and one-handed weapons, and dual-wielding later on). Not sure about the other stuff, but I really like that particular idea. Implemented right, it would give players some cool options.

For compound management just create a dropbox room for each group, one large storage chest and a code lock. Then define a gmt drop time.

Then you basically act as or create a tax collector that goes around collecting from the drop rooms.

Add signs if you want to leave messages.

Thanks for the intense discussing of discussive discussion gentlemen.

It’s Garry’s style of working. He adds content first and then fixes it, since apparently it’s easier to fix it when you know exactly when the glitch appeared.

From the recent updates you can see that Garry is going more for subsistence and compounds rather than survival or tower defence fragfests. But I do agree that the survival aspect has to be tweaked to improve gameplay for solo players and make compound farm spamming less OP.

I was thinking of shield + sword (SOON TO COME GENTLEMEN) combos too. It might make melee combat a bit more like in Chivalry, which as we know is a very good game.

You mean like:

  • baseball riot helmet
  • Gunpowder crafts 2x faster (kind of) - @garrynewman (/main)
    => Really!! Like its not hard already to defend against raiding, now the primary ingredient in C4 / rockets etc gets a nice speed increase??
  • Codelock is default craft
    Yay …
  • And the whole door/doorways/tingles get cheaper but also have half HP …
    Translation: Just build a square box with no doors, windows etc… Like current bases are already lacking imagination for the easy to get raided.

So where is this subsistence? Almost all are more points to enhance raiding aspects. It looks like all progress on the whole farming aspect has already been abandoned. Not that farming really added anything without a whole code rewrite of the current health/water/food system.

People didn’t even raid with the past speed and cost of raiding tool making, and walls are way too fucking strong. I think it’s a good fix.

Garry’s adding electricity and compound walls early next month, so compound making IS still being supported. As for the subsistence, the food and water systems DO need a little tweaking for bota bags and farming to actually be relevant.

What server have you been playing on?

If you are referring to the strength increased walls from two weeks ago. They already undid the whole C4/Rocket strength update. Idiotically enough the left the axe/pickaxe strength increase in place, the one’s that most solo/small clans players used.

The double increase in gunpowder may mean that everybody can craft more C4 faster but it also means that big clans have double the C4 faster then anybody else. That means they do not raid 4 or 5 bases per night, they can do 8 to 10 in a single night.

You try keeping up building base defenses with only walls / barricades when they are so easy to destroy with C4/Rockets or simple to bypass with ladders/twig towers. Add to this that the decay system makes a whole bunch of base designs impractical. Water bases useless. Rock bases useless. Massive resources increase for armored. And now less resources needed for doors/doorframes/half walls etc but also half the HP. That cripples even more base designs.

The amount of raided bases has actually been going up compared to a few months ago. The people hit the worst are actually the solo or small clans. If i compare the amount of people playing on the server … its gotten so bad that if the map is not wiped every two weeks, you have at best 3 people in off-hours and 10 a 15 people at peak hours. On a server that easily did 200 a 300% of that number a few months ago. Its not like people did not like the server, people simple gave up after getting raided and raided and raided ( especially when they are at work/school/sleeping ). The only one’s left from a few months ago, are mostly the very big clans. The “sheep” left more and more …

And frankly, no matter how much they keep pulling “look at this new shinny thing”, it does not matter when people see after a day or two how badly there base gets destroyed again and again because the lack of real protection.

Its fun for the people in big clans and maybe some other smaller clans can survive harvesting on the leftovers but lets face it… its in nobody there interest if the majority of the sheep people get rapped again and again. People simply stop playing.

They reversed the wall damage change? Well shit, this is a very severe problem that should be addressed ASAP. Frankly I didn’t even notice.

That’s because it’s a lie, they didn’t. The only thing they did is reduce doorway/window/triangle health which kinda makes sense. This will incite raiders to use doors instead of walls, allowing builders to build more intelligently.

All that’s missing now to make it perfect is to reduce the C4 blast radius. Everybody wins. I have a feeling its coming this week or next week, but I could be wrong.

Then what was the “c4 directional damage bug”? I can’t find confirmation but I could swear that I read recently that the C4 damage was reverted.

I’m still raiding just fine solo,decay actually makes solo raiding easier.

Here is how.

1.look for a base to raid that is either 2x2 (easy) or 3x3 (bit harder) (either stone or wood,you can go after armored if the base is 2x2 or if you are in a clan)

2.Look for a raised foundation that has been weakened by decay
3.while standing upright and close enough,hit the foundation on the side with a pickaxe or spear to do normal damage
4.If the building is tall,some of the walls at the higher level will fall of and expose the precious loot
5.Use ladders to get to the loot
6.Profit.

I haven’t played Vanilla rust in a while, so raiding has become really easy for me through modded servers, but even with that being said, the grind to get C4 is still real, and the bases are getting really cleverly built, so at the moment, I would say that raiding is actually pretty balanced…
its up to the raiders to make an effort to get what they want, and the other players to build accordingly.

Check out the recent Youtube video’s from just about anybody after the recent patch. All they are using is 3 C4 on armored walls. Before they complained that it took 5 C4 and they used 5C4 …

The doorway/window drop is just in the new development code added and will be active on the next patch this week!!!

So you have:

3 C4 about 3 weeks ago.
5 C4 about 2 weeks ago.
3 C4 about 1 week ago.
This week: Probably half that for anything that is not a foundation or solid wall.

BUT … they ( added today to the main development code ): “Timed explosive only damages the block it’s placed” what is about time!!! So they are reducing the cost for C4 to breach but made it finally more a precision tool like its supposed to be!

I expect them to reverse that in a week or two when too many people complain again that it takes more effort to raid / grieve a enemy base. lol ( might happen! ). And tomorrow they will probably increase the cost for base building by a 1000 times? sarcasm. With how they implement and change things, i will not be surprised.

So the idea is that people will focus more on breaching doors/doorways/windows/etc … structurally weaker points then full walls.

Edit: And almost forgot to mention the two time increase in gunpowder crafting time. In short, you can craft C4/rockets faster, you do twice the amount of damage on non wall/foundations ( so technically you use 1.5 C4 per doorway/window on armored. So probably one 1C4 on stone windows etc … ) but you lose the 3 tile splash damage that destroys half the bases.

I can live with that. Its more balanced and does not mean you lose half your base when you get raided!

Sorry for doubting you, it’s just that you’re the only one I’ve seen ever mentioning a change to C4 damage since the inner/outer wall patch hit.

All of this is good news, the game is heading back to Legacy-style raiding and base building and both of these were a thousand times better in Legacy. Forces AND rewards actually using your head both as a raider and a builder.

I’m really excited about this new update… Garry keeps killing the features of my Legacy mod one by one :slight_smile:

Like Legacy? Excellent, now there’s space for other (more evil) raiding tools like Rockets!

Np … It gets very confusing over time with some of the changes.

If you want to know what Garry is screwing up, just check the tracer from time to time:

https://twitter.com/RustUpdates

The bold stuff is in general important. :wink:

Assuming i calculate correctly and they do not change the damage amounts the next few days:

1 armored wall breach before: 3 C4 Now: 3 C4.
1 armored door/window breach before: 3 C4 Now: 2 C4 ( technically 1.5 ).

2 armored wall breach before: 5 C4 Now: 6 C4
2 armored door/window breach before: 5 C4 Now: 4 C4 ( technically 3 ).

3 armored wall breach before: 6 C4 Now: 9 C4.
3 armored door/window breach before: 6 C4 Now: 6C4 ( technically 4.5 ).

4 armored wall breach before: 8 C4 Now: 12 C4.
4 armored door/window breach before: 8 C4 Now: 8C4 ( technically 6 ).

This is a bit overboard calculation but it shows some of the differences.

Just crazy wall blasting will be expensive as hell. But if you focus on doors/windows/etc then your C4 cost stays almost exactly the same. Even a bit cheaper in case of a double door.

For base builders this means a MASSIVE difference because they are not forced to rebuild there entire freaking base because of the C4 3 tile blast damage range!! By the time somebody breaches the 3th wall in a 5x5, half your base walls are gone or so heavily damaged that the repair cost is just as high as placing new walls.

Add to that that the gunpower crafts twice as fast. And you can get some of the ingredients from plants now ( fibber from hennep plants somebody told me. Not found one so can not confirm ).

Frankly, … i like this change. Its a major balance. Not sure what they are going to do with directional damage ( inner / outer wall / floor / … ).

It does not prevent big clans from breaching your doors but at absolute minimum it reduces the costs to repair your base to maybe 1/10 of what it was before. And may prevent people from abandoning there buildings so fast.

Had a several buildings when i first started ( 4x4, 5x5, fully armored, 4 or 5 stories high ) damaged so bad, that at most a few outer walls left behind. I ended up making a new base because there was no point in repairing that leftover mess. So that buildings remains becomes another massive “collider” that was useless on the server.

I agree this is a welcomed change, one that I’ve been hammering for for a long time. I feel they should boost wall health just a bit more though, the way it is now, the difference between going for a door or wall isn’t significant enough.

In legacy when you were raiding a metal base, going through walls was a big game changer because it cut your raiding tools in half. Most raiders would blow doors whenever possible to avoid “wasting” c4 and builders could take advantage of that by building in a way that lured raiders to waste C4. Both from a builder and raider point of view this is a great change… As a builder I’ll enjoy building in a way that tricks raiders into wasting c4 and as a raider I now I have to think on how I’m going to get the most out of my C4 instead of just mindlessly bulldozing through a base.

IMHO all that’s missing to make it perfect now is faster gp (X2 ain’t enough, I want my C4 crafting capacity to be tied to my farming patience, not my “standing in base crafting” patience) and make everything stronger (or c4 weaker, whichever) so that small time teams and solo players can output a descent amount of C4 all while not becoming a uber threat.

Back in legacy, having 20 c4 was nothing to brag about. You could hit a medium-sized base if you used it well but you’d most likely not get anything from a big one unless you got really lucky or the builder was dumb.

The issue with too much damage is that we’re wasting it on door fractions. A sheet door is already .67 c4, with the change you could destroy 3 doors with the power of 1c4. They need to balance it so a wood door is 1c4, sheet 2c4 and armored 3c4. Make every other building part double that (wood wall 1c4, sheet 2c4, stone 3c4 and armored 4c4) and make c4 cheaper/faster still.

This way we’d have a similar balance to legacy, with an added tier thats a bit better than legacy metal.

I have no problem with your suggestion but they also need to balance the resource costs then.

The amount of wood / stone you need for a basic defense is not a problem. But its the massive jump up in resources for armored with only a 50% worse C4 wasting is a bit of a problem. I understand that thye want to make armored not to OP but at the same time the resources do not scale correctly ( and its frankly confusing for new players ). I never understood how they justified the C4 cost vs material costs and how out of place armored was.