IDEA: Navigation

Okay guys, i found myself playing Rust every now and then.
But after going a long time without Rust, and booting it up the other day i was kinda dissapointed that theres still no way of navigating.

So what do you guys like to see in Rust to navigate?

See poll on top of the page :wink:

And would you like to make them like a rare loot item, craftable, builtin the HUD or spawn with from the start?
Of course there are a lot of further questions to be answered, eg:
If there were going to be a map would your current position be shown?
If there were going to be a compass is it glow in the dark, and can use it as a tool or do you need to craft something with wood and use it like a sun compass? (In combination with a Watch perhaps?)
If there were going to be a GPS or a pedometer, where do we get the batteries? (Perhaps craftable, and maybe something with a geigercounter builtin?)

My answer: none of the above. For the servers I have visited so far learning and remembering the map is not a hard task. I don’t think artificial tools that help navigating should be a thing. (we’re talking about experimental, right?)

Yes agree with Gachi no map aids are needed, it’s easy to navigate ATM, if one or more of these options are implemented in the final version, i hope they can be removable by server admins so we can have adult servers that do not hold your hand,

1 Compass already in the game (sun/moon and the shadows they cast) so don’t need compass
2 Map you can climb to the tallest mountain and get a general layout of land. So no need for a map
3 Gps really this has a lot of problems (this means that there are still satellites in orbit and some land based communication towers are still active) gps requires a triangulated signals to accurately pinpoint positions. the map ATM is only 8000m x 8000m if it was 10X that you still would not need GPS.
4 Pedometer, Meh i understand the use of a step counter, but really don’t like the idea of it implemented into rust. (also just count the steps you take)

Even tho i don’t want these in rust i have a feeling that with the inexperience of younger players (70% of rust players are 16< you can see this in the suggestion section Bigger Dicks in top 10 WTF.) that want to be able to run for miles and expect to be able to follow a marker/way-point to find their way home, will probably out weigh the adults that want a real survival game, and in all honesty the first 3 can be constructed with rudimentary resources, so no reason why they could not be in rust,

I for one won’t be using aids to navigate.

you bring up a good point, kuian, but I hope Garry doesn’t listen to those who cry the loudest.

If i spawn at the upperleft corner of the map, which i dont know.
And my base is in the upperleft corner of the map, which i do know.
And i finally reach the top of the biggest mountain and i realize i climbed and walked that whole distance just to find out i was already in the right place to start with, that just grinds my gears you know?

DayZ has got a quite nice system with pinpointing, but what i would like to see is a simple compass and a map, also i think the map will change in future updates, with changing/different biomes.

And sun/moon navigating isn’t my strongsuit either :v:

PS. i haven’t seen a map with builtin compass, didnt know there even was such a thing, so will try it out this week.

tough life. I don’t see why the game should help you with this.

But this is not DayZ and this is not Minecraft. This is a completely different game. If another game does it it’s even more the reason not to implement it.

Then this is the time to learn. If you are bad at something, instead of asking the devs to add super easy help to the game, go learn how to do it and do it ten times and then you will see how easy it is. Also, maybe you have never achieved something yourself in a game and therefore don’t know how it feels like but I can tell you, if you once were bad at something but then learned how to do it, it feels great. Kinda the point in most games. If a game is too hard you don’t go and make it easier, you go and train and learn until it’s not as hard for you anymore.

In a survival game like Rust the game itself should not help you with anything. You don’t even need a map at this point because 1. go to the top of a mountain, 2. grab a piece of paper and a pen, 3. draw yourself a map.
You know what? This is actually my vote. For maps, they should all be user created. Someone mapped some zones/biomes of a certain seed, scans them and uploads them to this forum or if the server has a website, there. If you want a map of a certain region you ask someone whether they have one or not and maybe you can trade with someone a map he’s made for a bunch of metal or something. The possibilities are endless even without rust implementing a map system.

there are multiple biome’s (are you still playing legacy?) i.e if you spawn as you said in the North/East of map you would be in the snow biome, as the snow is always north, just as most of the sand biomes are in the south, if you study the map and take an hour or so to get accustomed to a new map. instead of just running round killing people the maps are very easy to remember there are many way to navigate (which have been used by humans/animals for thousands of years, and only take a few minutes to learn these simple techniques.

also the i think a few of the devs want moss on rocks (this was implemented but removed) which will also aid navigation.

I can’t vote because you didn’t have an option for none of the above.

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I really don’t understand why this would be such a bad idea if implemented through the use of the crafting system. Paper and charcoal could be used to make a map, creating a sextant from metal fragments wouldn’t be that far off if we’re already considering the possibility of manufacturing something like an M4, and It’s not like creating a compass would exactly be a stretch either:

For people wanting help with navigation until they become accustomed to the map, or just want the convenience of a quick positioning system (maybe not instantaneous), then why not give them the means? For the hardcore guys that think it would make the game too easy, they’d simply have the option of not crafting the items.

Eventually I’m sure you would find less and less people taking the time to create them as they gain familiarity with the environment, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say the idea of implementing something along these lines is ridiculous, or that it would detract from the overall experience if handled correctly.

A compass is literally pointless. Cardinal directions never change.

You’re right. So foolish for humans to have invented such a worthless device. We should start a petition for the immediate destruction of all compasses worldwide (btw, compasses do quite literally, have points).

I don’t think it is such a bad idea except everything in rust is going by tiers now. Tier 1 navigation is the sun, moss and the stars. Tier 2 could be compass/map. GPS is probably not going to happen unless they allow us to launch Nav Satellites.

The entire opposition to the idea is this

It isn’t just a point of being “hardcore”, it is being immersed in the game in the way it was intended and designed. Rust is brutal. The feeling of unfamiliarity with your surroundings offers a different gaming experience from other games out there.

I am not saying don’t add these items, but if they are craftable it should be further down the road.

Things is you can’t compare the feats of human explorers to Rust.

Yeah, I can definitely understand and appreciate what they’re going for with regard to immersion and the player environment that they’re creating. That’s one of the things I like about the crafting approach, that it’s not in direct opposition to the goal of immersion by avoiding the introduction of artificial mechanics. Yet it would still provide a viable option for those that wanted to take the time and effort to create something that they deemed worthwhile, while remaining true to the nature of the game and the direction of the developers.

[editline]24th September 2014[/editline]

Right again. You’re really on point. There’s very little comparison between the feat of creating an object originally conceived in 247 B.C. vs something like an M4 Carbine (at least by today’s standards). If you happened to find the last link confusing, maybe this one will help:

Grab a piece of real paper and a pencil.

Draw a map as you move around.

Job done.

I agree with the more “veteran” players that a map or compass is not needed, and that after a day or two on any given map, you start to remember the lay of the land, coupled with little tricks like noting the sun or moon direction, shadows and moss, etc, and remembering to glance backwards in the direction you came from every couple of minutes, so that you recognize the way on your return journey…

… but I also want to point out that at first, you don’t know these tricks, and the map can be very confusing. So many times at the start I built a cabin, went looking for resources, and then couldn’t find my way back! As a newbie, I was totally FOR the idea of having a compass and map. It was only after I had been playing for about 100 hours or more, that I decided they would actually detract from the game.

All I’m saying is, whilst I don’t want a map/compass to be introduced now, I totally understand why anyone new to the game does, because it took me a good while to start to feel comfortable with the map-less navigation.

Hopefully with the way the game is going there will be an actual curve for technology. It is a bit ridiculous to think that you awake naked and afraid in a forest with nothing but a rock, so first thing you do is build an impenetrable castle.

This is how we should all be living the first few nights:

Uuh I’m not sure what this has to do with navigating the map? And I don’t know what impenetrable castle you mean, in neither of the Rust versions the buildings you make when you awake naked in a forest are impenetrable… What are you talking about?

Have a map toggle (off/on) for those that want it so realistic they can make guns, hatchets, bullets, furnaces, first aid kits, draw blood, create metal doors, and build log cabins that look like mansions and go 200 feet in the sky, yet can’t seem to figure out that a pencil and paper could help with drawing a map of all the places you go.

You know, kind of like they did when they explored the world 1000s of years ago. Yea, that wouldn’t be very realistic. It should be a hardcore system with no map at all, I should just read the sun and shadows and know where I am at all times (including after I die and respawn - very realistic btw) by hiking the tallest mountain I see on a whim. I mean, we’ve all hiked a bunch of mountains in real life, so this shouldn’t be too hard.

If someone wants it hardcore, don’t use the map, or toggle it off. Or have a server toggle it off. However, for the 90% of the people that actually do want a map and compass, I’m sure facepunch will add a tracking system of some sort. Good work on the experimental build so far facepunch!

  1. You can draw your own REAL LIFE MAP of the in-game server you play. This way you can leave the map on your desk while you play and you don’t have to push buttons to look at it. Even easier than if it were in game!

  2. Find tallest mountain. Take screenshots for North, East, West, and South. Boom, you now have a digital picture layout of the server. You now have a 4-6 part map.