Is a Sandbox PvP gamemode something that the Gmod community would enjoy?

…because I think I’ve been hammering away at something that is ultimately pointless.

So for the past while I’ve been developing some sort of abomination gamemode that combines sandbox with an inventory system that allows for weapons w/ attributes kinda similar to TF2 as well as skills that a player can use to assist them in combat (stuff like triple jumping, transforming into a crow for quick escapes, parkour, all sorts of different stuff to shake the gameplay up a bit) with the added benefit of being able to build contraptions and bases like typical Sandbox. My inspiration for such a gamemode were base wars I used to participate in years ago in an old community sandbox server where people would make big fortresses made out of shipping containers and go try to infiltrate and kill opposing players. They were a blast to participate in but without any sort of specialized code for it, it often felt unstructured and lacking. I’m also a huge sucker for randomly generated Borderlands-esque weapons that you can brag to your friends about because you have this super cool gun they don’t have.

At some point I think I just continued developing a gamemode that existed solely because it was fun to develop, not to actually play. Initially it had a more RPGish feeling to it, involving stuff like crafting, hunting out loot in nooks and crannies in the map but over time it shifted into something slightly more competitive. Players would start with a small subset of weapons and they’d find more over time, they could find vehicles to drive or fly around in, they could set spawnpoints inside of their bases and I’ve been pondering the idea of a “base core” that would give some incentive to base raiding, though I have no idea how exactly that’d work.

I’ve sat on this idea and a ton of code (of which there’s like 4 major reiterations and refactorings of) but never once actually consulted anyone who’s invested in the Gmod community and now I’m worried that I’ve basically just dug a big hole for this gamemode.

My biggest concern is that by restricting players into finding weapons instead of just spawning them, I might be taking away a very important freedom from players that they’d normally expect of Sandbox. People often play sandbox because it’s fun to goof around in but by telling them “No, you can’t use these yet, you have to find them”, I’m probably just gonna irritate people and cause them to just go and find a normal sandbox server.

I come to you, Facepunch, as my only social link to the Gmod community. What do you think of this idea, how would you refine it and what do you think could be added or removed to better the experience?

Yes, I’d play something battlefield-y on gm_fork.

I don’t think I’d play on it, but then again the last thing on my mind when I’m playing Gmod is combat.

I considered gm_fork but the fps drops are just too much. Unfortunately that’s the case for almost all large Gmod maps, thanks to the lack of multithreading.

Yeah, unfortunately Gmod isn’t known for it’s excellent hit registration. There’s still that animation mismatch bug too, which makes accurately hitting a player almost impossible.

It’s not so much a matter of hit detection as it is ‘It’s fucking infuriating when I’m trying to mind my own business and build an SUV while someone constantly pops in and shoots me in the face for no reason’.

noclip and pvp is sh*t

Pretty much

It could be interesting, but if you got both noclip and pvp it’s just going to result in people flying away when anything happens. You’d also have to have something that prevents people from just repeatedly killing the same person over and over again and preventing them from building anything if that’s what they want.

Noclip would of course be turned off. I’ve thought about providing a build mode so that certain players could simply build without the concern of getting blindsided by some cheeky fucker but I’m not sure if that really belongs. I mean, there’s still plenty of vanilla build servers out there.

I run an ACF based build to kill server that’s basically just the generic Battlefield formula. There are cap points, infantry takes caps while vehicles support the infantry, etc. You’d think people would flock to a structured combat server, but the end result is usually one or two rounds and everyone just bails.

That actually sounds extremely badass, I’ve been looking for a decent combat game mode with Sandbox elements for a while now. I’d be willing to join if I could get the IP.

In a sense Hex had something just likes yours but with a top shit anticheat and no one played.

The server is GGG - Baikonur. IP is 192.157.56.114:27018

We use a modified version of M9K for the sweps (not the M9K base at all, people just wanted nicer looking models than the default CS:S ones for some reason). All of the weapons do ACF damage.

It’s a team thing, so you pick from Duty or Freedom when you initially spawn in, and your stats and team are saved on the server. You can change teams using !wipe, though that wipes your score. I had thought of some sort of prestiging system or something to do something with the points earned by murdering players or taking cap points.

There’s a maximum team proplimit of 300 and a maximum weight of 60t per contraption. Most of the rules on the server are enforced automatically via scripting, but it offers a lot of freedom.

I’d love people to try it out and tell me what I could try to change. I’ve heard suggestions like switching to a different weapon base, better cap layouts, and overall polish, but I’d love to hear what people have to say about it.

300 props for an entire team sounds really small to me, how many players per team? one tank with a decent composite could easily eat up that entire limit.

There are only two teams. 300 props was about enough to allow for a set of lightweight contraptions for infantry movement while still offering stability and heavier vehicles to others.

The team prop limit being as it is was to discourage inefficient building techniques and allow for teams to police their own prop expenditure. We tried a few different modes in the past such as unlimited pasting, specific pasters for the team based on a build/kill time cycle and a lower prop count of 150 per player. None of these things worked when the player count was high enough. Everyone was trying to paste in while people were fighting and the ins and cpu usage seemed insurmountable.

So, once the contraptions were reaching that level of complexity and CPU usage, the winning team (or the team with the shittier contraptions) were choking out the other team by making the server unplayable. The only available answer we had was to use a hard prop limit for teams. People had suggested a tonnage limit, but I can’t scan dupes before they’re pasted to check weight limits (well, there’s probably a way but fuck that noise, I’d have to take apart Ad1/Ad2 to do it).

I understand that prop count is not a significant indicator of contraption complexity or server load, but it is often something that can be correlated. Keep in mind how ACF handles HE and other types of explosions and high prop count vehicles really don’t offer much beyond being able to allow people to peacock.

Also I thought composite armor was exactly the same as a plate of equivalent thickness to the interstitial plates. Might’ve changed since Ductility

While a limit of 300 is certainly better then 150, even then back when I joined it the limit was 150, people still managed to make the server drop to its knees, with unnecessary things, like suspensions, things not well enough parented.
Like every that can be parented should be, also a way I would just avoid prop limit is converting all decal/decoration to holograms, maybe have a higher hologram limit then?
I tried to make a m113, as low prop as I could:

http://puu.sh/gY2xv/1fbf04224a.png[/T]
63 props, not a single v-clip, everything is clever triangle work.
Here without the holograms:
[T]http://puu.sh/gY2GA/f3a0f4ad20.png[/T]
I could even lower it to 47 by removing props I put on the gunners hatch, since I was too lazy to convert that to holograms.
[T]http://puu.sh/gY2OO/cc72546599.png

Ohh and every bit is parented, to have absolute minimal lag, that includes the wheels too.

I think we’re running with 100. People are starting (or were back when it was gaining attention) to make entire acf contraptions out of holograms in lieu of actual props. It’s all very annoying.

Your shit is just going to get blown up anyways, why the extra fluff?

Go in hard or go home