Is not griefing the same as having the demolish tool ?

When you get raided, people grief you, filling up your house with stone blocks etc.
This would take a long time to remove, so is it not the same as them having destroyed your house ?

So here’s the idea, the owner of the cupboard should ALWAYS have ownership of that cupboard, no one can remove the ownership of the owner.

Only the owner of the cupboard should be allowed the demolish tool and the demolish tool should ALWAYS be available to that owner.

Cupboards should be upgradeable like the walls; wood, stone armour.

If you are wanting to demolish something a long time after it has been placed then it should no longer be removed instantly, it should last for about 30 seconds making a loud noise.

That would prevent someone else from just taking over your base, which to my mind is a completely legitimate move in Rust.

“Owner” in Rust really means “Owner, for now”. Nothing in Rust should be permanent. The only “ALWAYS” (your caps, not mine) in Rust should be “always paranoid”. I don’t ever want to feel safe.

I agree with what you’ve said here but I also see the frustration with Greifers, if we look at it as a real world scenario it’s perfectly plausible that another survivor would move in and take over a good place to hole up even if that means killing the previous owner. However it makes no sense at all that another survivor finds your hiding place a fills it with concrete so you can’t use it.

Yes I like player freedom but I think griefing shouldn’t be that easy. It frustrates people too much and they leave the servers. Raiding the house for loot is ok but just making it unusable or taking it over is too much.

Most people already quit when they get raided the first time. But only a very small percenteage of players will rebuild on the same server after their base was taken over.

Like I said I don’t mind taking over a base or even destroying it but they should not be able to “remove” it as it should cost them to destroy your base, and I do not like the half block bullshit that’s just wrong

Guys I’m new to the forum, how can I agree with this?

No, you wrote that wrong.

When you get raided, and people take over your cupboard, they then proceed to do things to their house… which you no longer own. The fact that you built the house means you own it about as much as you own a storage box placed on the ground in the middle of the forest.

Griefing would occur if they aborted the raid half-way through, or couldn’t get past the front door, and decided to ruin your playing experience out of spite. The cupboard, shit as it is, temporarily prevents that… but only as long as you own it.

Griefing is not possible anymore. By definition greifing means that the person doing the griefing gets no benefit other than sadistic pleasure. This used to be possible when people would drop a block outside your door. The homeowner would have to waste time destroying the block and the person who placed it would get nothing.

When someone gets raided and the raiders make their home uninhabitable, this is not griefing. This is a tactical move that forces the person to move away and start again. If some asshat moves in too close to my base and I want him gone, this is how you do it. The resources required to completely level a base are too much.

I basically agree with you ash but I’ve had the experience that people told me I was too close when I had my own freakin valley because they were more than 500 meters away on the other side of a big mountain range. So “too close” means “the closest target” for some people.
And there are lots of people who grief in every raid.

I’ve had a 3x2 house blocked off while I was offline. “Raiders” who had enough to C4 my walls off, steal everything I had, and wall me inside the house, of course after stealing all my tools so all I had as an option was to kill myself.
People who was based off on the opposite side of the map, you know.
I feel people still griefs, all in all.

Please explain the difference between what you are describing and griefing… cause I don’t see it. This is ultimately a server preference though. On mine, you can take over a base that’s fine but don’t just fuck it up for the sake of fucking it up. This makes players rage quit and bases litter the map that could otherwise be reused by other players. I warn once and ban on the second offence players doing this kind of shit and it’s plainly stated in the rules. Don’t be an ass, take what you need and GTFO. Imagine if every house burglar would take your valuables and put fire to the house each time they went on a theft, it’s just stupid and pointless.

I can understand and will tolerate in some specific situations, like some a-hole making a raid base next to yours which is clearly used as a tactical point to pose a threat to you, but that’s very situational.

Dont forget you CAN destroy cupboards.

Which makes it nobody’s house, except the person standing in it.

[editline]2nd October 2015[/editline]

Ownership is defined and enforced either by an authority, by mutual recognition, or by possession.
Unless you live in a town, there’s no in-theme authority… and no guarantee of mutual recognition. Which leaves either administrator intervention (see above) or the rule of possession. And a house ceases to be a possession the moment you lose control of it.

As long as it’s documented and enforced fairly and consistently, a server rule against excessive destruction and attrition tactics is fine. But in general terms, lacking any specific server rules specifically indicating otherwise, when you lose your house you do exactly that… you lose it… until you decide to get it back in it’s “as is” condition. In the end, you’re left with the server owner making arbitrary rulings about player intentions depending on how they left the house they just raided, and prohibiting them the option of simply moving in to their new acquisition or using it as an outpost.

If someone takes over your base the. Proceeded to half block the whole first floor and then Leaves they had no intention of ever occupying your base! The argument that this isnt griefing is just silly.

No, the argument that it isn’t griefing hinges upon the argument that you no longer own the house, and you can’t be griefed by having someone destroy a house you don’t own.

The cupboard exists to keep people from blocking you in with walls and traps and screwing with your base. If you don’t control the cupboard, it’s no longer your base. The only way around this is to play on a modded server with some kind of “deed” system, or have active administrators heavily moderating and restricting the conduct of marauders and shooing them out the door as soon as they’ve looted crates.

We’re trying to get rid of the cupboard or find a viable alternative… pining for permanent ownership is going backwards, and I doubt it will ever be a part of vanilla.

I didn’t mean to imply I was for perminant ownership but it’s clear when someone half blocks in the base that they had no intention of using that base. I get that it’s a tactic to deprive the enemy of resources and shelter but in that case you should have to use shit loads of explosives to vaporize he base not half blocks in the halls! It is fine to get rid of a base but not for free and half blocks just make it cheap, that’s just being a dick head IMO

Use triangle foundations and floors and they can’t grief you with half blocks.

I remove bases because they normally get abandoned after a raid. After being on servers where every other building is an old raided base I decided to clean up the server. Keep it how it is.

This is what decay is intended for. It would be nice… since the update is on a 2 week schedule, if the decay rate was changed. Like… I dunno… if there was no activity in a base after a week, then it decays fast.

Best thing you can do is to break in, steal all you need and then repair. Repeat for profit.