Is not griefing the same as having the demolish tool ?

Use triangle foundations and floors and they can’t grief you with half blocks.

I remove bases because they normally get abandoned after a raid. After being on servers where every other building is an old raided base I decided to clean up the server. Keep it how it is.

This is what decay is intended for. It would be nice… since the update is on a 2 week schedule, if the decay rate was changed. Like… I dunno… if there was no activity in a base after a week, then it decays fast.

Best thing you can do is to break in, steal all you need and then repair. Repeat for profit.

This is a very sensible tactic :+1:

Uh… I did. With examples of both. I can’t really do better than that.

It’s okay for you to enforce your definition of fairness on your modified server (great even, because there are clearly people who enjoy it). But it’s just that - a modification. The same as increased gather rates or supply kits. The whole point of this game is to do better than everyone else. You can do that by building yourself up or by tearing others down. Both are acceptable paths.

Personally, I do use the “build in a base to destroy it” method. But only for bases that are near me. For others, I’m happy to let them rebuild their house and regather supplies for me to take again in my next raid.

Bottom line is that we ought to be able to destroy someone’s base. Right now, there is no practical way to wipe a base from the map. So you make it uninhabitable and let decay do the work. There is nothing wrong with this.

Here’s a question for you: What difference does it make to the old owner whether someone destroyed his base, made it uninhabitable, or moved in? In all three cases, he gets to go take his rock and bang a tree - so what’s it matter?

I suppose if they move in, the potential is there for the old owner to take it back. But, in any case, his next moves are all still the same: He has to start over from scratch. And what if the new owner lets it decay before the old owner can make an attempt at getting it back? Is that wrong? By your standards, it seems like the new owner would have some moral obligation to maintain the house he took - which seems kinda silly.

Actually there is a way to destroy a base its call cart loads of c4. Your just being cheap by using the half block method. And yes that’s being a dick head, you are exploiting an unintended mechanic within the game to fuck over another player. IMO and only my opinion your a greifer

This makes zero sense to me. Why would it be okay to level a house with C4 but not okay to build in it and let decay level it?

The game is, so far, balanced towards the idea that building is almost immediate, and destroying takes far more work.
By using building to destroy a base, you’re basically going around that balance.

makes sense if your hiding hole right beside my loot stash, hunting grounds, or escape route. irl, i would be pouring barrowfulls of concrete in there while you were still inside

[editline]2nd October 2015[/editline]

well everyone there it is. You are all baddies who are refusing to adapt. Asking garry to enforce emergent gameplay restricting rules.

Fuck guys, this isn’t an issue. Don’t want to lose your house? Play PVE.

ALL YOUR PROBLEM IS BELONG TO LACK OF ADAPTABILITY

Half blocks are not just about griefing. As stated above, if you want someone to move out they can be used, but I also use them during a raid to prevent people from re-entering the house while I’m in the middle of the raid. I can’t get the door code so it gets blocked.

Neither of these do I consider griefing. Griefing is doing something to be a dick, and not something that is a game play tactic.

Does that include the hours it took to collect the resources for multiple C4, or the time spent chopping away at walls with iron tools? Do those factor in to “the balance”?

I almost never mess with peoples’ bases. Most of the time I replace components to mask my point of entry and raid tactics. The point here is that people seem to think they “own” something or have some privilege to it based on nothing more than the fact that they built it… on a game that revolves around taking what other people own. And I have heard no good justification for this assumption.

You’re given a cupboard to prevent griefing. You’re given the opportunity to build walls, barriers and traps to keep other people out of your house. Someone gets into your house… … … it’s not yours anymore. It has ceased to be “your house”. It’s now either “their” house, or “a” house. The fact that you may or may not occupy the house again in the future does not seem like something that should be imposed upon the raider, regardless of how much we’d prefer they not be an asshole.

If you steal my rifle, it’s not up to me to decide what you do with it. You can choose to give it back, sell it back or drop it on the ground on the side of the hill and leave it to despawn. It’s not my rifle until I get my hands on it again. And if you spend my explosive ammo shooting a chicken while bragging to me how wasteful you’re being, it’s not what we mean when we say griefing… regardless of your ignoble intent, regardless of how much effort I have to go through to replace it.

First off, most people raiding do it for profit and don’t have a use or even want the base. If some asshole steals my base, fine, I’m gonna build somewhere else, gather supplies and raid his ass, potentially profiting in the process. If he just fucks up my base with half blocks, there is no point… It will take less effort to just build somewhere else.

Destroying or disabling a base is just bad business, it makes people angry and rage quit and ultimately you are ruining the server you are on by doing this because you are driving people off the server. You as a raider do not need to do this, it gives you nothing, there is no profit in it, so the only reason you do this is to be a total obnoxious asshat, the kind of player that people don’t want to see on their server.

Like I said, I make exception of people building right next to you with the obvious intent of using the base as part of their raiding strategy. At that point the base is a raiding tool more than it is an actual base.

Anyways, not saying your point isn’t valid, I mean it’s a sandbox game and if people want to be evil assholes and the admin is fine with it, have at it. I just think it’s detrimental to the game and servers. Do what you will with it…

I intended the resource gathering portion aswell, yes. In 30 minutes you can easily make a decent stone wall fortress alone with the starting tools. Just destroying one of the walls takes ages with basic tools. But with tools gained by hard work (Far more than 30 minutes of gathering, clearly) you are able to render a base unusable pretty quickly.
Gathering enough to spam blocks to make a base unusable takes around 5 minutes tops, so using this as method to do so devalues the one that was added for that purpose.

But which is it? Hard work and hours of effort to get to the cupboard, or “pretty quickly” “5 minutes tops” destruction of the base?

The fact that it takes a few minutes to place blocks isn’t relevant when you have to spend hours to get to the cupboard to allow you to place blocks. Sizable effort is expended either way.

It… takes hours for you to get a cupboard?
I’m at a loss. It has yet to take me more than half an hour to build a basic base with a cupboard and stone walls.

The time necessary to actually place down the blocks isn’t what I mean. I mean the total time, including resource gathering.
Time necessary to get the tools, resources, etcetera necessary to destroy a building is FAR greater than the total time necessary to get a house with a cupboard and stone walls.
I’m not sure how else I can rephrase this, so I’ll just leave it at that.

I agree with this. But it seems like an argument for using blocks as destruction tools, not against it. I made this point myself a couple times already.

The resources/effort required to level a base are high (because there aren’t a lot of ways to make destroying a base easy without making raiding easy). So making a base uninhabitable is the way we destroy a base.

I don’t get how this is an argument against making a base uninhabitable.

Is your implication is that because there is no easy way to destroy a base that the Devs don’t want us destroying bases? If so, I guess you might have a point? But by that logic, I can say that we can put blocks in bases, so the Devs must want us to put blocks in bases.

To get to a cupboard… as in, to complete the raid of a house, not to build yourself a cupboard. We’re talking past one another.

You mentioned that building blocks to fuck with someone’s base is quick and easy, and “getting around the balance” of time and effort. My point is that it doesn’t matter how quickly and easily you can place blocks to fuck with someone’s base, because you already spent a lot of time getting into their base and getting building permission in order to place those blocks. Ergo, balance retained.

Placing blocks in someone’s house you have no intention of keeping yourself makes you a dick and nothing less. As people have stated if you need someone to move because they are too close to you or you want to build in the immediate vicinity for some reason then that’s fine (although there are plenty of other ways to do this anyway) but if you raid someone no where near your base and fill their house with blocks you are griefing. You’re intentially hindering their experience with zero gain to yourself. In fact you’re at a loss (granted a minor one for the cost of the blocks).

The way I see it is you’ve taken all of their stuff, probably blown up a good chunk of their base to get to that stuff and now they have to gather up resources from scratch to repair that damage. That alone will take them time and effort, why cause them more trouble by having to start from scratch and leaving a building that nobody can use that will take time to decay? The only answer is because you can. Outside of what’s mentioned above there is not reason, tactical advantage or whatever to fill someone’s house with blocks other than to cause them more misery. That by any definition is griefing.

I actually like the idea in the first post, there’s no reason not to give someone removal abilities in their own area. and since tool cupboards are a temporary crappy mechanic they may as well play a bit more of a role than just something you have to get to and press use one. Make them upgradable, make them harder to destroy. If someone wants to use a load of extra c4 after getting all my stuff just to make my base unplayable then that’s a fair trade.

Not only would this mean more players stick to servers and carry on playing after being raided which is good for the community it would also alleviate some of the collision limit problem not having a load of bases being unused and decaying which can take up to a week for a good size base. So outside of people being a dick, there’s no reason to not do it.

Its not pokémon. If you wanna be the best, you’ll probably end up whining about this and that because you fail or maybe even fail in real life because rust will steal your time and eat your soul.

In my opinion the game can be compared to a social experiment. (“what will happen when…”)
It is up to every individual to set their own goals. If your goal is being the best, it doesn’t automatically count for everybody else.

Just because I like turtles doesn’t mean everybody else does. Simple enough?